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Geek Culture / Alternative to MSPaint

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Wik
21
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Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: CT, United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 04:39
Like the title suggests....I need something instead of paint.

I don't like the gimp and my trial is running out for PSP which I don't like that much anyway.

I would like to try older free versions of PSP, but the only one I found was just a 30 day trial.

All suggestions would be greatly appreciated


One Common Ruin
20
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Joined: 19th Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 04:53
Well I did a quick search and came up with this, Ultimate Paint. I'm not sure it its free but here is the link, http://ultimatepaint.j-t-l.com/


There is no patch for human stupidity.
TKF15H
21
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Joined: 20th Jul 2003
Location: Rio de Janeiro
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 04:55
Depending on what you're trying to do, Sodipodi is good/free. It's still beta software, but it can already do some good stuff.

Can I see a demo now? [edit]Disregard, I saw the demo.
Lost in Thought
20
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Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 05:16
! and just whats wrong with paint. I like it in win XP for alot of basic stuff because it can edit and save many file formats. But PS is better for making complicated stuff.

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
GeForce FX 5200 AGP 256MB | Windows XP Pro Full
Wik
21
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Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: CT, United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 05:23
Quote: "! and just whats wrong with paint. I like it in win XP for alot of basic stuff because it can edit and save many file formats. But PS is better for making complicated stuff."


Well, the last straw was really the grid system, but it really can't do much anywway.

@Zink+TKF1SH:
I'll look into those, thanks.


Lost in Thought
20
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Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 05:51
Exactly what features do you want? I'll try and find something.

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
GeForce FX 5200 AGP 256MB | Windows XP Pro Full
Wik
21
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Joined: 21st May 2003
Location: CT, United States
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 05:53 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 05:59
Umm,
A good grid function
Some good textures (possibly)
I'm doing mostly geometric stuff
Not to complicated

And thats about it.

[EDIT] Something remotly similar powerpoint...I would use that but it doesnt work with pixle measurements


Pincho Paxton
21
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Joined: 8th Dec 2002
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 11:51
Quote: "! and just whats wrong with paint. I like it in win XP for alot of basic stuff because it can edit and save many file formats. But PS is better for making complicated stuff.
"


Just about everything is wrong with paint if you are a good artist. If you aren't a good artist then I suppose it makes no difference. I can barely draw anything in paint, and I was a professional graphic artist.

Lost in Thought
20
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Joined: 4th Feb 2004
Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 16:22
I can make almost anything in mspaint that you can make in autocad. And make it print out on a piece of paper the real size (if it is small enough to fit on the paper). It is a little lacking for graphical stuff but I do use it for simple changes to images when i'm in a hurry. I'll see what I can find as a replacement.

"People don't fail ..... they stop trying." Specs. P4 2.8GHz 800 FSB | 512MB DDR333
GeForce FX 5200 AGP 256MB | Windows XP Pro Full
Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 17:45
Quote: "I can make almost anything in mspaint that you can make in autocad"

Are you kidding?

The last sorta free version of PSP was 3.11, which you can still download:
http://www.earthstation1.com/pgs/software/desw-psp311.exe.html
I'm not sure of the legalities, but it's a trial - yet unrestricted after 30 days so it's really the full v3.11, not a crack or anything dodgy like that.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
zircher
21
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:05
Pixia is a nice and free 2D editor.
http://park18.wakwak.com/~pixia/
--
TAZ

Scraggle
Moderator
21
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Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:16 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 18:17
You can't go wrong with Adobe Photoshop.

I have been using it for years and I wouldn't swap it for anything else.

The latest version will cost you $579.99 from Amazon but you can try the software for 30 days Here



1001001 S.O.S.
Toby Quan
21
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Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: U S A
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:23
I used the 30 day free trial of Paint Shop Pro 3 for over 1,000 days. It was funny - it said in big red letters:

You are on day 1,029 of your 30 day free trial.

Now I have purchased, use, and love Paint Shop Pro 7.
zircher
21
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:24
Well, that's a little out of my budget range since this is a hobby for me.

Without trying to highjack the thread, anyone know of an economical 2D editor that has support for multiple levels of transparency in PNG files? Ideally, I'd like to take a gradient texture and use it as a transparency map. I figure that would be a very handy feature for a number of effects.
--
TAZ

Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:45 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 19:00
Nah, PS is really the only option for transparencies in art packages, even PSP won't support alpha channels when saving a file - as far as I know.

You could use a memblock format, like use a 24-bit image and an 8-bit greyscale alpha image and combine them into a 32-bit memblock, I could show you some code because I made a little auto-alpha channel thingy with a memblock. If you wanted it as a standard file format, then I'd suggest looking into the wonderful .tga format - I once made a loader for 24-bit .tga images in basic on the Atari ST! - .tga does support alpha channels and is uncompressed.

EDIT: Fixed my misleading manglings in the first paragraph.

Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 21st Apr 2004 18:56 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 18:59
Corel Photo Paint 8 has Alpha channels. Maybe you can get that cheap because it's very old. It's one of the best art packages too.

Read this because I do not know much about Alpha Channels, but this is in the Corel 8 Help Files.

Quote: "You can edit an object's transparency globally to change all of its pixels at once by a uniform amount, or locally to vary the transparency of its pixels. When you change the transparency of an object, you modify the grayscale value of its individual pixels. The grayscale uses 256 shades of gray to represent levels of transparency, ranging from black which has a value of 0 (transparent) to white which has a value of 255 (opaque). When you change an object's transparency with a clip mask, the grayscale value is indicated in the Paint or Fill color swatch on the Status Bar, depending on the tool you are using. The darker the display is when working in the grayscale, the more transparent the tool makes the object appear.

Editing transparency globally

Editing an object's global transparency evenly reveals the object or background that lies beneath the selected object, like a double exposure with a camera. You can change the global transparency of one or more objects at once using the Opacity slider in the Objects Docker window. You can also change or undo the effect of the Opacity slider at any time, even after saving it to the object. The Opacity slider operates on a percentage basis ranging from 1%, which makes objects fully transparent, to 100%, which makes them fully opaque.

When you create a clipping group, you can use the Opacity slider to make all pixels of a child object more transparent to reveal the object below it. You can adjust the global transparency of all objects in a clipping group so their pixels appear to blend evenly together within the shape of the parent object.

Editing transparency locally

When you edit an object's transparency locally, you change only some of its pixels to reveal the underlying object or background in varying degrees. This can be a sporadic effect where pixels of greater or lesser transparency stand out from surrounding pixels, like a canvas showing through an old painting, or a gradual effect where the transparency of the pixels changes progressively to create a gradient.

The clip mask

A very useful feature in Corel PHOTO-PAINT for changing an object's transparency locally is a clip mask, which covers the editable and non-editable areas of an object like an invisible sheet. With the clip mask, you can edit an object's transparency values without affecting any other attributes of the object. You can change the transparency values directly on the object and then add the clip mask, or add the clip mask before making the changes. When you change the transparency before adding the clip mask, the clip mask can be used to restore the pixels to their full opacity so long as their transparency has a grayscale value of at least one. You can undo transparency changes at any time with the clip maskeven after saving them in the imageand turn the clip mask on and off to view the object with or without the changes.

You can also use a clip mask on a clipping group to vary the transparency of pixels in a child object, so that parts of the object underneath show through with different intensities.

The clip mask and alpha channels

Just like a regular mask, the clip mask has its own alpha channel in the Channels Docker window. When you enable the Preview icon of the clip mask thumbnail in the Channels Docker window, the Image Window reveals changes to the clip mask as a red overlay that corresponds in depth to its transparency value. As with a regular mask, the clip mask thumbnail in both the Channels and the Objects Docker windows interprets any changes as shades of gray. With the clip mask thumbnail, however, white indicates areas that make the object appear fully opaque, while black indicates areas that make it look fully transparent. Shades of gray in the clip mask thumbnail are areas that make the object appear partly transparent. With the regular mask thumbnail, white signifies the editable areas and black signifies the nonnegotiable areas.

"


Van B
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Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:04 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 19:05
If you like Powerpoint then I reckon the Corel art packages might be a good option, nice and vectory and more technical than pixel based packages. Corel was the standard for clip-art before rendering and digital photography sorta took-over everything. If gradients are your bag, then Corel is the package for you.


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
the_winch
21
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Joined: 1st Feb 2003
Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:19
http://www.gimp.org/ supports multiple levels of transparency in PNG files.

you ain't the cops
Grismald
21
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Joined: 4th Mar 2003
Location: France
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:19
Quote: "I don't like the gimp"

Have you tried version 2.0?
It's pretty neat IMHO, maybe not easy to learn, but once you find your way through the interface, it becomes a powerful tool.


Team EOD: Programmer :: 3D artist
spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:22
PaintShop Pro 8 quite happily saves alpha channels when saving, specially PNG's. They look lovely in DBPro if you have have multiple transparency levels in the image. PSP7 does the same I believe according to the manual.

Shameless plug to my PSP7 on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3673235525&category=188

Boo!
zircher
21
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 19:49 Edited at: 21st Apr 2004 19:54
Thanks for all the info folks. Time to do some detective work and check some of these tools out.
--
TAZ

Spooky, your PSP 7.0 sounds right up my alley, but since I'm in the US the postage would eat me alive (if you even allowed for it to be shipped that far.)

spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 20:27
Ahhh, forgot you was in the US! Far too much hassle sending stuff abroad. Even if I did, PSP7 weighs an arm and a leg (literally!) and postage would indeed eat you alive.

Boo!
Scraggle
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21
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Joined: 10th Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 21:23
I have got Corel Draw 8 in a shoe box somewhere. I don't use it anymore because I have Adobe Photoshop 7 now which is far superior (and far more expensive).

It is complete with 3 discs and three manuals and a registration card which I never used, so registering wont be a problem. If anyone wants it, let me know. I could let it go for little more than the price of postage.



1001001 S.O.S.
zircher
21
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Joined: 27th Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 21:27
Let me take a rain check on that. I'm currently playing with the GIMP to see if it will work for me. So far, I have passed all the requisite sanity checks.
--
TAZ

spooky
22
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Joined: 30th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 22:46
Quote: "I'm currently playing with the GIMP"


LOL!

You do know what a GIMP actually is don't you (other than a graphics program)

Boo!
M00NSHiNE
21
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Joined: 4th Aug 2003
Location: England, UK
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 22:50
Wally, the texture package for Valve Hammer, was a pretty good program, and it was free. In fact at one point I was using it to do some of my graphics work and some of the tools were good. Lets you do blurring and some effects that msPaint cant.

zircher
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 21st Apr 2004 23:54 Edited at: 22nd Apr 2004 00:03
In the states, a gimp is slang a crippled individual that usually walks with a limp. I get the feeling that it has a different meaning in the UK.
--
TAZ

I have a habit of walking into double meanings. At my previous employer, I worked on a Stock Analytics Data Dump program. I didn't like the name SADD so I call it Analytics Dump for short. I worked on the project for three months before someone clued me in that everyone was pronouncing it as Anal-Dump. The boss thought it was so funny that the name even made it on our company teeshirt for that year.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 22nd Apr 2004 00:44
Quote: "Corel 8...nice and vectory and more technical than pixel based packages."


Corel 8 has a vector based program, and a pixel based program supplied with it. The pixel based program is what I use, and it's similar to Photoshop, it even has some things that photoshop can't do. Mostly though it is like Deluxe Paint but with layers, and effects. Photoshop is better, but more expensive, and more complex.

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