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Geek Culture / Need good advice on this notebook pc I might buy. Please Help.

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 24th May 2004 05:50
Ok I was going to buy a notebook computer with the money I was making at my job but I am having troubles.

There are two computers in which interest me.

There is the Dell 600m and a brand that is not very recognized by a lot of people called the Batallion.

I was planning on customizing them, and when I do the prices both equal about $2000 (2 Grand).

Well with the Batallion my Notebook specs would be like this:

15" SXGA+ 1400x1050 LCD TFT Screen
Intel Pentium(M) Centrino Technology 1.5GHz Processor with 1MB Cache
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
1024MB (512x2) DDR-333 PC-2700 Major Brand Ram
128MB ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 256-Bit 3D Video Card
80 GB 4200rpm ATA-100 Super Slim Notebook Hard Drive
4X Dual Format DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive
3D Wave Stereo Sound Onboard
Build-in 56K V.90 Fax Modem
Build-in 10/100 Network LAN
Build-in SD Memory Card Reader/Writer
Build-in 3x USB 2.0 Ports
Build-in 1x IEEE-1394 Firewire Port
Wireless LAN Wi-Fi 802.11g 54Mbps Mini-PCI Module
Standard 1-Year Limited Warranty + 1-Year i-Care Deluxe 24/7 Phone Support + Depot Service
Super Deluxe Carrying Case


The Dell Inspiron 600m Specs would look like this:

14.1" Super XGA+ 1400x1050 Display
Intel Pentium(M) Centrino Technology 1.5GHz Processor
64MB ATI Mobilityâ„¢ Radeon
Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
256MB DDR SDRAM 1 Dimm Notebook Ram
60GB Hard Drive
4x CD/DVD burner (DVD+RW/+R)
1 Year Warranty and Accidental Damage Service
Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Internal Wireless (802.11b, 11Mbps)
Dellâ„¢ TrueMobileâ„¢ 300 Bluetooth Internal Card
Productivity Pack with WorkPerfect® and Microsoft® Money Standard
Nylon Carrying Case



There is a big difference in specs but here is what makes me not sure on what to one to get. I have a Dell Desktop computer and it has never failed me with the exeption of the speakers breaking, but when they did Dells support and replacement was awsome. I have trust in dell.
I have never purchased a computer from the site that has the Batallion so I do not know how good they are and what quality there hardware is.

Dells Site http://www.dell.com
Exact Dell Computer I was looking at http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_notebook4?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Batallions Site http://www.ibuypower.com
Exact Batallion computer I was looking at http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp.net/store/configurator.aspx?mid=87

Note I had to customize them.

Well if someone in the forums knows how I should go please give me your opinions. If you have purchased either of these two computers then let me know also. I would like to hear what you think of them. Also will you guys let me know if both the computer stats match Dark Basics requirements so that way I can use DB on it. I know that there are a few minor things that makes it so db wont run compile on it, such as a video card that is not compatible.

Please help me out guys,
Nicolas R.


Visit Me And See All My Awsome Stuff Here: http://www.yobarinteractive.tk
Zone Chicken
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Posted: 24th May 2004 06:07 Edited at: 24th May 2004 06:13
Honestly i don't know much about notebook's but the Batallion specs look a decent amount above the dell. If you go to the customer rating on the batallion page most of there feedback looks good.
http://www.ibuypower.com/others/feedback.asp
One thing you might want to find about both systems is the amount of upgradeability they offer i've heard from others about the lack of changing out hds and graphics cards and sound card on some notebook models. Also on those customizations pages alot of times you can get the parts cheaper online and install them yourself as its not to hard to do with everything plug and play, but specs wise of what your showing in your post i would go with the batallion except i would lower your hd to a 60 to get a 7200 rmp instead of a 80 at 4200 cause thats a tad on the slow side and i would bump the cpu up to a 1.7 with the extra back on the hd.
The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 24th May 2004 06:21
I was not planning on ever adding new hardware to it once I bought it. I have asked around already and no one could tell me how hard it was to even install new ram into a notebook.

I have looked for parts online and it was worst than I had expected. The parts are outrageously priced on all the sites I visited.

Laptop parts I've seen mostly to be 3 times as much as a desktops parts. That is extreme. $150 bucks for 512MB Ram.
That is crazy.

Thanks for the advice you gave me. If you know of cheap hardware sites let me know.

Please continue to give me advice people.


Visit Me And See All My Awsome Stuff Here: http://www.yobarinteractive.tk
Zone Chicken
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Posted: 24th May 2004 06:29 Edited at: 24th May 2004 06:31
http://www.pricewatch.com/

Kingmax - - KINGMAX 512MB DDR 333 SODIMM- Model MSAC22D-xxKIx 32x8chip (64x64) CL-2.5(Avail Kingston,Toshiba)
Details:
-MSAC22D-xxKIx Designed for Laptop / Notebooks that support 200 Pin SODIMM
Part - N82E16820155109
Updated - 5/23, 12:43 PM

TotalCost $101

Price - $101
Shipping - Free FedEx Saver
Will Ship - 1-2 days
Ian T
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Posted: 24th May 2004 07:31
Yeah but it's hell putting new hardware in a notebook. 1024mb should be plenty for a long time! The first one's specs look amazing, as long as there's no catch, it's the best.

The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 24th May 2004 07:41
How are some majors ways to find out if you are being screwed over on the computer?

I know that I have an HP desktop and it is just as bad as a Mac computer. It is horrible but the specs are kinda nice.

What are some ways for pointing out the obvious in a bad computer? How can I tell if I am going to have problems? Is there a way? What makes a computer crash or get errors, is it the quality of the hardware or what?

I have an IBM laptop and it was made in like the 80's. 1MB video card, 16MB Ram, 1GB HD, Pentium 1 Processor. I know the specs are bad but it is constantly crashing with errors.

Please give me more advice guys.

Thanks,
Nicolas R.


Visit Me And See All My Awsome Stuff Here: http://www.yobarinteractive.tk
the_winch
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Posted: 24th May 2004 08:57
What do want to use it for? Are you going to carry it about and need good battery life? Or just use it like a desktop you can carry around and not need the battery so much?

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The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 24th May 2004 09:30
I was planning on using it as like a portable desktop. Most of the time it will be plugged in but there is the occasion where I am on an airplane or something and I wont have a plug for about 3 hours.

I plan to use this new notebook for programming, gaming, cd/dvd burning and creation of artwork and design.

Mainly I want it to be fast and durable. I want it to last me for a good 6-10 years just like my current desktop.

Well get back to me on what you think is my best bet

Thanks,
Nicolas R.


Visit Me And See All My Awsome Stuff Here: http://www.yobarinteractive.tk
Dazzag
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Posted: 24th May 2004 11:13 Edited at: 24th May 2004 11:13
Personally I was really interested in the Dell 8600c (with the 1900 resolution screen.. drool). It now comes with upto a 2Ghz Dothan effort. Not sure on the estimates, but if it's anything like the older chips then times by 1.5. So 2Ghz should run something like a 3Ghz Pentium 4 effort. Although it doesn't have the 9700 yet annoyingly.

Now though I'm considering a Rockdirect Extreme. Fair enough, not a Centrino, but I wanted more of a desktop replacement anyhows. Tis faster than an Alienware as well, so all is good. Just can't decide if I want to spend a fortune and get the Extreme Extreme Edition. Good old 3.4EE chip with 9700 ATI. Pretty nice. When you normally can't upgrade much, you pretty much should get the best IMHO. Only downside is the slightly low 1400 resolution (used to at least 1600).

Although there is a fair bit of talk about waiting for PCI Express, which (even in a laptop) promises to leave the current laptop cards behind, and have upgradeability (like Alienware, but more realistic).

Look in the notebook forums, they have loads of info.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th May 2004 12:37
Have you had a look at Acer notebooks ? You should be able to get a much better spec for less.


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Karlos
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Posted: 24th May 2004 14:35
I've had 2 dell laptops both get quite warm.

The first one had to be replaced with a different model. My current one (5150) does tend to get pretty warm as well - I've had to buy a laptop cooling stand for it to stop it switching off.
I'll just say i've had problems with dells technical support in the past which would give me issues with buying from them again.

My missus has got an acer which offered the best spec for the price and so far has been solid.

If it ain't broke - try harder.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th May 2004 14:57
Yes, I dont think you can go wrong with Acer... Pretty competitive (see eBuyer.com)


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Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 24th May 2004 14:58
I almost got this same one except I got one with intergrated graphics. Well, if you ask me, intergrated graphics are the same.

Good Games Are Made by Powerful Coders
flibX0r
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Posted: 24th May 2004 15:13
From Mouse:
Quote: "The first one's specs look amazing, as long as there's no catch, it's the best."



I agree. Unless there is a catch, the first one is pretty amazing. Whoops my desktops arse except for the processor

Ian T
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Posted: 24th May 2004 17:21
Quote: "Well, if you ask me, intergrated graphics are the same."


more proof that he knows nothing about making games.

Smokie-> Heed Dazzag's warning about the Dells heating up too much. Batallion still looks like the best.

Tomy
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Posted: 24th May 2004 20:11
The dell isn't worth the price! Get the first one!


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Dazzag
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Posted: 24th May 2004 22:25
Quote: "Quote: "Well, if you ask me, intergrated graphics are the same."

more proof that he knows nothing about making games"

Quite right mouse. Integrated graphics are very very very bad. Esp in a laptop as you really can't upgrade. Intel Extreme 3D 2 is it? Total rubbish compared to something like a 9600 or a 9700 ATI.

Acer are very good. Friend of mine bought from acernotebooks. Top stuff, looks nice, and very cheap. I was personally looking at the Ferrari 3200. Down side with most Acers is the screen resolution is normally naff, but the 3200 is 1400, so not bad. Just I don't think its an AMD64, and there are a couple of gripes. eg. I think its a 4200Rpm drive. ie. naff.

Still leaning towards a Rockdirect Extreme, or perhaps the AJP equiv (successor to D500P, think is D500E) when it comes out with 9700.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 25th May 2004 05:28
I looked at the acers and I must say im not very impressed.

I still am a little concerned. All laptops will get warm, there is nothing to really do to prevent that.

What is the comparison of a Pentium(M) Centrino 1.5GHz to a Pentium 4
How many GHz will the centrino 1.5 be to a pentium 4.

AND has anyone purchased from IBUYPOWER.com?

Get back to me,
Nicolas


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Dazzag
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Posted: 25th May 2004 16:01
Fair enough. Personally I can't see much wrong with them apart from screen resolutions.

Centrino is normally around 1.5 times faster than it's Ghz. So a 1.5Ghz should perform around the level of a 2.2Ghz Pentium. This is what is quoted on most forums, although I've seen reports of 1.7Ghz centrinos matching a 2.8Ghz P4 in most things (1.7 should be around 2.55Ghz equiv). Although for games the graphics card is king. Get an ATI 9600 or 9700 and you should be laughing, no matter what the CPU. Of course the extra speed of RAM, FSB, and overall Mhz of the P4 chips should get you an advantage on the top desktop replacements (look at Rockdirect for example). Note though that with the new Dothan chips (1.7-2Ghz) that have 2mb of secondary cache (not 1mb like old Centrino), then the 1.5x calculation may not be valid.

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
indi
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Posted: 25th May 2004 16:28 Edited at: 25th May 2004 16:32
the 14.1 screen would be a killer in the long run.

look up a sony viao or an alienware lappie, if your going to invest in a lappie then why not buy something wickedly nice for a few extra dollars.


techtv rounded up a few good laptops as well for gaming purposes.
here is a link for the review.

http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/products/story/0,23008,3629407,00.html


my mac lappies are a little old but still crunch other stuff then brand new games.

[href]
http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=pg3sbronze[/href]


http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=pg3s2


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Dazzag
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Posted: 25th May 2004 22:24
Alienware has slow memory apparently. Only single rate. Or so they say on www.whatlaptop.co.uk anyhows. Also heard complaints about the screen not updating fast enough. Like the UXGA res though (1600x1200).

Also is more expensive than the Rockdirect Extreme, and gets around 10-15% lower in game tests compared to the Rock (when they both had the 9600, haven't seen a 9700 test).

You have to like the eyes though. They are different colours for each level of power. And it's a switcheable option in the bios. So you go in and get the usual boot configuration, hard drive setup etc, and Alien Eyes. Tops.

And I wouldn't get a Viao for games. There is a new one though that actually has a 9700 (is it the A series? Can't remember...). Was looking really good until anything below a 17" screen was only 1024 res, and the 9700 was only 64mb. But in Japan it was better. Grrrr. Still, if you like a 13" screen with a 9700 in it, then you can't get much better (coming out soon apparently).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
The Lone Programmer
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Posted: 25th May 2004 23:38
Indi:
I dont want to offend you or anything but personally I get Mac/Apple Desktops and Notebooks were the worst thing that was ever brought into this world. Hardly anything that I know of is compatible with them, and the whole setup sucks. Thats just my opinion though.

My opinion is that HP/Compaq and Apple/Mac should have never been thought up. All I ever get on those is problems.


Do you guys think that Pentium 4 Processors are better than Pentium(M) Centrinos? Why are all computer places trying to make there new laptop processors into Centrinos? Are Centrinos smaller/thinner/lightweight?

And Does anyone know what makes one computer brand different from the rest besides support and specs?

I have a Dell and an HP desktop computer with just about the same specs. The HP is breaking down and crashing every day, where as my Dell has never broken down on me. What makes them different? Is it the quality of the parts put in? Is it the craftsmanship of what was being put in, where as how gently and nicely placed in all the hardware was? What would make computers of different quality?

Please get back to me.
Nicolas R.


Visit Me And See All My Awsome Stuff Here: http://www.yobarinteractive.tk
Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 26th May 2004 03:02
Well, you ask me my intergrated graphics are awesome! So, well, lets say my intergrated graphics run faster and work better than my PC's Radeon!

Good Games Are Made by Powerful Coders
indi
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Posted: 26th May 2004 06:23
my lappies have paid for themselves 4 times over so im not worried what your perceptions of them are.


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Dazzag
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Posted: 26th May 2004 10:29
Quote: "So, well, lets say my intergrated graphics run faster and work better than my PC's Radeon!"
That was sarcasm right? Or does your PC come from the middle ages or something?

Heh, check out just about any laptop review and anything with an Intel Extreme intergrated graphics effort normally struggles to get 2000 in 3DMark2001, and you can forget 2003. Something with a 128Mb 9600 can easily top 10000, and I haven't even seen a benchmark yet for a 9700 (supposed to be at least 20% faster).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
rachel
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 16:52
I would say - DON'T BUY AN AJP LAPTOP!

I bought the D500P laptop 2 months ago, and had (and am still having) a TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE!

I work as a VJ with video & thus need a super fast laptop, with a blinging video card, that enables me to mix video clips live. The spec on the D500p was a dream. And boy, were my VJ colleagues envious of me. Unfortunately it was RUBBISH.

I upgraded the cd to a dvd-writer & got a second swapable cd drive as well. Which would have been great if on average, 1 out of 2 times, putting a cd into either drive hadn't crashed the laptop. Cd goes in (data or installation, didn't matter) & laptop freezes.

In 10 weeks I sent it back 7 times. They were never able to solve this problem.

After 4 weeks & 3 returns They gave me a new machine, but with my old hard drive which they had told me they were also going to replace. It still crashed. They put in new cd/dvd drives. It still crashed. After 7 weeks & more returns I asked if I could have what I had been promised 3 weeks before - a new laptop with new hard drive, so I could just start over again & try to forget the amount of wasted time & money. I was told that they had already spent more money on it then they had made so they weren't willing to do that any more - not great customer service.

It also ran my VJ software really, really badly. I use a piece of Japanese software called Motion Dive. Good, reliable stuff. The only issues I have ever seen come up with Motion Dive have been due to slow processors or slow hard drives. Thus I got a 3Ghz upgrade & also upgraded the hard drive to 7200rpm. On the AJP laptop there was a noticable lag when I loaded up a new clip. Also if I dropped a clip into screen B while screen A was playing out, screen A paused for a second. And vice versa.

Finally 2 weeks ago I had had enough of the cd drives still not working & it's performance being poor. I sent it back. I only received a refund yesterday. And it's missing £14.10, which was the cost of the free pen drive they gave with me when I originally bought it. Although they agreed last week I could keep it and they would give me a full refund.

Overall? The machine was loud (unimportant for a VJ in a noisy nightclub, but might be important for a home user or DVD/Gamer addict), heavy, and very very flaky. TEch Support were fine to deal with on the phone, but several times I was told my laptop had been mistakenly "left on the bench" for a couple of days before they looked at it, so it took longer for the laptop to be returned then I had been told. Which meant I had to take a desktop & monitor to a gig several times. And Customer Service is a joke. I had a great sales person that I dealt with, but once they'd got my money it rapidly went downhill. I've spent a fortune leaving messages asking them to call me back. Which they never do. And now they've got their machine back, they're just rude. The only professional, polite, genuinely helpful person I've dealt with has been the receptionist. She should get a promotion. To a new & better company.

I've now bought myself a Dell Inspiron 9100. Almost identical spec with a next day onsite worldwide repair warrenty. For less money. I've left it on for the last 20hrs playing my VJ software (which does make the machine work very hard) & it's still running well, responsive & has not overheated. I can put cds in and it doesn't crash. I can ring up customer service & they actually try to help, there & then. I can call up technical support who provide excellent telephone support there & then.

I really would advise...DON'T buy AJP. And think about getting the new Inspiron instead. A million times better in all respects!
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 17:21
Quote: "I would say - DON'T BUY AN AJP LAPTOP!"

Never heard of them...

I would suggest an Acer laptop, especially the 64-bit versions.


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Dazzag
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Posted: 9th Jun 2004 21:05
Doh. So tough this laptop m'larky.... Acer? Yeah, they are good. A friend of mine has a Centrino with no worries. And the Ferrari 3200 likes pretty good, although a little pricey (Cough-Evesham-Cough). Just wish they would do higher res screens (UXGA at least).

Hmmm. Was pretty ok with AJP as my next lappy until I read that... That or Rock as they use the same chassis on the Extreme. And the D500E sounded pretty good. Could get the same as the Extreme (if you phone) for a little cheaper, but with UXGA resoltion (1600x1200). Nice. Now I'm confused again! Rats.

Hmm the 9100 though? Bit of a brick isn't it? Personally was leaning towards the 8600 with it's new Dothan chipset (same thing really, just not much of a brick). And the difference in gaming would have been almost nothing (mainly GPU these days). Although can't get the ATI 9700 in the 8600 yet... darn... But you can't stop thinking of that WUXGA screen (1920x1200ish).... Double nice....

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
rachel
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Posted: 10th Jun 2004 22:44
Well I've been reading more online reviews & the general theme is that the AJP laptops go wrong within a couple of months & then it's a nightmare trying to get ajp to fix them and to take responsibility for it. This chap really liked his D500E when he got it, but it's just started to go wrong, so maybe it'll be a good idea to keep an eye on his reports http://www.whatlaptop.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7006&whichpage=1

Thing is, computers & especially laptops do go wrong. If they don't go wrong at all ever you've been really really lucky with your lappy! So you really need a company that is going to provide good customer service & technical support. And I don't think that AJP do.

So far I'm loving my Inspiron 9100. It's basically the same spec (hasn't got a second swappable drive...and, um, that's it...), was a couple of quid cheaper & comes with a much better service pack: worldwide, next day, onsite for only £85! The foot-wedge-thing under it does make it look a bit 80's in the pictures. But you really don't notice it. It's about quarter of an inch wider, but for me that's just fine. Oh, and I like the fact that the keyboard doesn't keep popping out!

As for weight, I think it's either the same weight or a little bit lighter then the D500P. But it does feel better built & sturdier. However, with something that highly specced you've got to expect the weight with it. The battery life is about the same too - about 1-1.5hrs (although I haven't tested it properly yet, just going on the written specs). But again, I don't think you're going to get such a high specced machine with a longer battery life. And lets face it, if you're planning on using it away from a plug, you're probably not going to want to get something that heavy & that highly specced in the first place. So maybe the 8600 would be better? Especially if the difference in spec isn't going to make any real difference in your end use.

BTW foudn one chap who said this in April:
"Product: 6200 Laptop
Buyer beware - If you ever need to return a laptop for repair 1) take several pictures of it 2) have them signed by a solicitor.

My laptop needed a new cpu power supply circuit board, when I collected it after repair it had scratches on the case and the hard drive was broken. They of course deny any liability and produced paper work to say the damage was already there when they received it (I suspect that this was typed in and re-printed while I waited).

Two weeks after I bought a new hard drive and reinstalled everything the cpu power supply fault recurred – I haven’t used the laptop since." http://www.romulus2.com/feedback/company.php?3 (His is the review under my lengthy one!)

To add to your confusion though, a friend of mine recommends the ACER!
rachel
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Posted: 11th Jun 2004 02:35
just checked & the inspiron was actually £50 more expensive. But if you discount the £85 I spent upgrading the service plan, then it was £35 cheaper. And I reckon that's £50 well spent!

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