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3 Dimensional Chat / mmorpg possible ?

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crystone
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Posted: 27th May 2004 11:20
I am truly interested in knowing how many ppl can join in to a game created by DB!?

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Chenak
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Posted: 27th May 2004 11:28
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=28077&b=9

Once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny...
crystone
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Posted: 27th May 2004 11:59
I appreciate your cantor altho I am sure that you ment well . The question remains the same . now i have over 500 complete objects created,animated,and painted . plus tons of terrain,art,etc done as well as a list of quests a mile long with a player activated/compelling story line .I have also made maps of continent with cities.towns ,shire's , housing ,lakes,rivers and ponds . there are also over 200 npcs on my list . I know it takes time ,money and patients . I have a line on servers and connects .

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crystone
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Posted: 27th May 2004 12:01
oh by the way my maps are all vectored and quartered

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Matic
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Posted: 27th May 2004 12:12
i like to see some pics of you work
Toilet Freak
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Posted: 27th May 2004 14:55
sounds interesting, please tell us more info, screenies anything

pathfinder
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Posted: 27th May 2004 16:01
You know i keep hearing about mmorpg, why not...

1/ stick to having 1-6 people able to log on

2/ implement chat

3/ forget even a combat system. Plonk a dice rolling routine in to the sack then you can play a dice game instead.

4/ let the players move themselves.

5/ 1 person GMs, they create quests, speak for the npc's etc, create a 3D Design scenery using a map editor.

This sounds like a rant but .... think about it. I think it would be much more easy than mmorpg. Plus youll learn all the networking bits. if you wanted real time combat you can put it in later. But still think using something like D&D in stead of coding it would be more interesting. That way you could play super Heroes / Space / fantasy... Hehe i really miss my rpg group
crystone
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Posted: 27th May 2004 23:24
ok as far as screens i would like to keep my work not give it away .the next is when i have more complete engine I will release more info . next I beleive i have too keep certain aspects confidential for reasons that it would be my hook to get people to play it. believe me you have to have a good nitch to keep people interested in paying for your game on a consistant basis .

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zircher
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:24 Edited at: 29th May 2004 01:23
Pathfinder, have you ever head of Open RPG? I'm building a 3D chat program that fits your description fairly well and it also uses dice macros as part of the chat system. VirMin is not finished yet, but it could be used for dungeon crawls as well as RPGs.

http://www.geocities.com/tzircher/tcom_gallery.htm

I've got a good chunk of the DBP source code and resources on the web (in a Yahoo group called VirMin) in case you're interested in playing with it.
--
TAZ

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

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Matic
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Posted: 28th May 2004 01:52
crystone i dont see screens as give away but ok you call.

zircher i did think of that kind of chat alot and will work on some 3d part for one and maby a coder can use it.... well that dosent belong to this post this is Crystone's topic
Tapewormz
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Posted: 28th May 2004 02:51 Edited at: 28th May 2004 02:53
Direct Play lets you have 255 connections. So you can make a game with 255 players.

Try making a game like Neverwinter Nights. It's a multiplayer RPG.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
pathfinder
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Posted: 28th May 2004 11:47
nice models zircher. Lol was kind of suggesting the rpg thing to crystone. Have to admit Iam getting tempted to do one though.


good luck with your project crystone. Sure the community will answer any questions. Hmmm Ill tell you, still may be better to design for small scale online gaming though. Infact iam sure ive played some mmorpgs that were blatantly not designed for mmorpg and scaled up

Anyway good luck with it mate.
zircher
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Posted: 29th May 2004 01:24 Edited at: 29th May 2004 01:25
Duh, sorry about messing up the URL. I fixed it here and in the previous post.

http://www.geocities.com/tzircher/tcom_gallery.htm

The idea is really to show off that you can do the 3D chat thing in DBP.
--
TAZ

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

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crystone
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 10:16
I like the fact that most are acceptable about the project . see the point of not releasing any content as it will give away one of my valuable ideas. Reason being is character design and artwork that is going into it but as soon as i stop being so darn picky i will post a shot that chat thing may work great but question being whom do i bring aboard for royalty ? I am being very carefull as to my game for to keep it cheap to

1) either make more money
2) or more design less issues
3) actually build a great game for less

you are also correct this will be a fully 3d mmorpg

AlecM
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 11:10
you have 500 fully animated/textured objects? Also, how exactly will you do the work of 15-30 programmers? You know something around half a million hours of work went into creating everquest.. 10 hours a day * 5 days a week * 50 people * 52 weeks in a year * 4 years = 520,000

with just 1 person that would take around 60 years. Just a little perspective for you. Oh and I didnt even include overtime in my calculations.


Buy it
Mussi
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 01:51
DBP=production time / 4

so that means you only have to program for about 15 years



Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 80GB HD 7200rmp U133, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb
Oneka
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 06:06 Edited at: 6th Jul 2004 06:08
well you dont have to have 500 models and it doenst have to take a long while to make a mmorpg... To get a game like FFXI maybe but come on people dont have to take that long to make it even if I made a game with 40 monsters with only animation for walking dieing and attack that could be a MMORPG.... right?
O and it takes them like a year of planning and not everyone works on it all the time and usally it takes longer to do things with a giant team then a solo coder/modeler..

A 1 man team
EVIL SIG!
crystone
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Posted: 15th Jul 2004 12:17
OK . i have alot of the tables worked out .
Character stuff
1.atributes
2.skills
3.hud
Item objects
1.melee type
2.magic
3.mondane
4.pets
5.housing
6.shops
7.armor
8.land area
somewhat of a basic hud but not finished and is more developed than the one herehttp://www.javascript-fx.com/interfaces/fantasy/demo.html
also it has an item upgrade system for most inannimate objects .
a realistate property value system . I also have now 400 creatures modeled but most of them are animated not all.I have recognisable large and small housing and public area's.total houses being used is 200 total.i have 8 large area maps designed and ready for play .
i am trying to figure out a game designer counole to click and or select from menu addons to easily select all items,number of items,cost, and additions to the game . i also have 4 p42.8 ghz servers with 2 t1 accesses per ,not sure how many ppl could join but at least it is a start .

I have an odea to throw out to someone who wants to try it . create a code to add x# of clients into any game .

zircher
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 06:08 Edited at: 16th Jul 2004 06:19
Quote: "I have an [idea] to throw out to someone who wants to try it. Create a code to add x# of clients into any game."


How's this for a code? CRC4298DSOL. Seesh. Have you read any of the DBP docs on multi-player? In a peer-to-peer environment, you have have up to 255 people automatically join your host session.

Read the examples, read the multiplayer secrets html, read my VirMin beta source code (http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/virmin/), it's not rocket science.
--
TAZ

Seriously, you should think about the design a lot, especial communication formats. You can create a game server with minimal graphics in DBP and have as many people as you want (within reason) connect and play on that 'node'. Each of those servers can talk to a shared database if you need a persistent world. You can also write DBP clients that will join these DBP servers, that is where you put all the hefty graphics and user interface. The clients pass tokens to the game servers and the servers send updates back to the clients. Turn based or realtime is up to you and partially dependent on the amount of memblocks you can process and pass back and forth.

In the case of VirMin, all events are human driven so it is easy enough to use memblocks with gauranteed deliver for moving models, chat, die rolls, etc.

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

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crystone
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 08:12
ok so the tables are not nessecarley apart of the code but it was a lil update on game and represent alot of what i have in objects and the tables help me to see what i need to code into the game .A lay out of sorts . A plan of design . plus tables doesnt mean data bases . also to have these tables means you code the %'s of damage , effects , and objects durabillity etc. Also code in the character,models(monsters),or whatevers health bars according to the tables % . they also make it easier to understand, for the dev team,of what needs to be programed for the idea to become more
complete as you would like it done . I am not yet a professional game designer , but hopefully can give a good idea to the group of where this game is going ,but this might happen for me .

also why have concept art if you dont use it . same reason i give tables also . clearer the concept the more the game will be closer to what the idea of the game will be . plus I also find that in more and more games people want to find out what available items are in the game gives them more of a goal to go for .As far as 3dchat forums go it adds a deminsion to the 3d process that I feel is needed .In other words how the items will be conceived in the code process without a detailed description of each and every item .

crystone
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 08:24
oh and about coding the adding players connects it is meant as a game code for a counsole for admining/activating individual connects on a 2000+ player game system to add as needed but I understand also reading the doc's that you have directed me too . I am new to the programming but I am a quick learner . I am not sure i gave yoou the right concept that i want to come across with .

crystone
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 08:30
also I intended as post earlier{quote}"that chat thing may work great but question being whom do i bring aboard for royalty ? I am being very carefull as to my game for to keep it cheap to

1) either make more money
2) or more design less issues
3) actually build a great game for less

you are also correct this will be a fully 3d mmorpg" {quote}
so that i make it apart of the game itself for to have game admins etc.

John H
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 01:10
Yes a MMORPG is technically possible. Youd have to pay -a lot- for a server that is good enough to run this all through. Check out the WIP section for Nuclear Glories new system which is excellent for online games. It sends data to and from the server, which could be stuff like chat strings, play positions and what not. It can send 300 bytes per second for a free user I think.


We need help! Email us! [email protected]
ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 03:24
hey i heared about an engine that allows u to make mmrpgs and other multiplayer games.................but i forgot the name

Oneka
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 05:57
your probably talking about Playerworlds...I dont think thats all that great...


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
Cian Rice
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 06:02
You can get PlayerWorld Servers for up to 10.95 or something like that a month, but I'm not sure if it's only for PlayerWorlds made games.

Got anime?
I do.
Kadatonic
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 09:33
Playerworlds is far from good. I know the person who created it then turned around and sold it. He's not a very good programmer. He does a real slop job on programming, so the optimizations you would like to have are not present in it at all. The new owners have just been reusing the same source code fuddling it up even more. Stay away from player worlds if you can.

As for all of this talk about having all this stuff done and ready for the MMORPG, my question is simple....... you want to get people to help, but people won't help unless they see a sign that something is there waiting for them to do to help it along. Too many people come to these forums asking for "The Code" and whatever else, expecting other people to create the games for them. You have to show proof that you aren't trying to get someone else to do all the work for you because skepticism lives here due to what the past contains.

It is nothing against you crystone, but the statistics speak for themselves. Show proof that you have something and people will listen to you a little more attentively rather than mock you as a wanter of "The Code". It's pretty much a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" situation. If you want something done to help you, you have to entice the masses to want to help you. Talk is cheap, images are priceless.

--Kadatonic

You have entered a new world now, can you handle it?
ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 14:27
i wasn't talking about playworlds.........i found the engine but it is open source.


http://axiomengine.sourceforge.net/

nuclear glory
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 16:35 Edited at: 18th Jul 2004 16:59
Quote: "Yes a MMORPG is technically possible. Youd have to pay -a lot- for a server that is good enough to run this all through. Check out the WIP section for Nuclear Glories new system which is excellent for online games. It sends data to and from the server, which could be stuff like chat strings, play positions and what not. It can send 300 bytes per second for a free user I think."


Thanks RPGamer

Yes, a mmorpg is technically possible. The design of a mmorpg must be tied very closely to the server software, otherwise you'll be dumping bandwidth like milk jugs from a wet grocery bag.

Our server software could theoretically connect up to 65000+ people in one game, although it's not designed and optimized for such a situation. The game has to keep very close track on how much data it's sending (from each client machine) and how much of that data is being relayed to other people. The bandwidth can start piling up exponentially and create massive hits.

Our free service is perfect for startup games with up to 4 people per session. The bandwidth service we offer works nice for like a 7 or 8 person (per session) multiplayer FPS.

When you step off into MMORPG land, you're looking at anywhere from $145 to $265 a month to cover the server. Also, you'll need custom-built server software to integrate with the game to handle the load properly. Anybody willing to put up the money for such an operation we'll happily work with.

The short version: You need to be a professional programmer with server cash, a loaded business person who knows who to hire, or someone willing to build up from the bottom to get to mmorpg level.

All of the source on the planet is useless if you don't have the means to put it into action

----

After reviewing some resources, we could provide a MMORPG server solution at a lot lower cost. Like at $80 a month if you don't mind paying the $100 setup fee.

If a group of 10 people pooled together, that's only each person paying $18 the first month and $8 for every month after to power the MMORPG server where you could potentially have hundreds or thousands of customers. Each person would receive a cut of the cash and possibly put programming and media into the mmorpg project as well (don't want dead weight people on board).

This makes the MMORPG option a lot more reachable.

NG could handle the server side integration and build it to work specifically for the game, etc... (so NG would have investment into the project and therefore require a fair cut of the earnings)

Each person could make a fair amount of money, be part of a cool project, and get their names out. It's not a bad gig if we could pool a good group of people together.

If you want to set somethin' up, give me a buzz.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Mind Storm 101
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 18:02
It all revolves around the money, as with the rest of the world

"Think what you like, You'll all be mine in the end."

[href]www.DotBinary.dbspot.com[/href]
nuclear glory
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Posted: 18th Jul 2004 18:14
yep, you got it

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Rixarn
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 02:15
Hey, good idea Crystone and pathfinder i was trying to do something similar (A Pen and paper RolePlaying PlatForm) since 2 years but i know little bout DB (im a newb at programmin but im working on it now anyways since 2 months lol)...I hope you do finish your proyect, good luck
Oneka
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 02:30
o thanks for the idea so that means if I do finish my I could probalby use you guys for hosting


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
Mind Storm 101
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Got Money?

"Think what you like, You'll all be mine in the end."

[href]www.DotBinary.dbspot.com[/href]
nuclear glory
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 08:35
Quote: "I could probalby use you guys for hosting."


Yep, that's what the service is for

@Mind Storm 101
lol, it doesn't take a fortune.

A spin off from "Got Milk" I suppose?

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Tapewormz
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Posted: 19th Jul 2004 11:43
You guys are wasting your breath... He's just going to keep dreaming out loud. You can't convince someone that it's going to be expensive who thinks that a couple of linux boxes and 3 friends with cable internet can link up some kind of server network for an mmorpg.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
Kadatonic
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Cable is definitely not a wise choice for an internet connection for hosting anything beyond a web page. I love my DSL though, it'd be good for a small scale game server. I'm lucky enough to have 4mb down and 2mb up streams. And it stays at that steadily and the only spikes it has are spikes that go upwards. But I myself wouldn't want anyone to do any of that for me when I could easily pay 70 bucks a month for a dedicated server running Windows on it that I have remote desktop control to and has a 10mbps internet connection minimum. It'd be much better to me than small time cable services. That's fors ure.

--Kadatonic

You have entered a new world now, can you handle it?
nuclear glory
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 01:51
Not entirely sure who the last 2 posts are aimed at, but, just for the record, the NG services aren't running on a cable line.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Kadatonic
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 02:07
My post was a direct result of the post before mine. I had nothing to say against your proposed service. What you say I believe until I see something to prove otherwise.

--Kadatonic

You have entered a new world now, can you handle it?
Tapewormz
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 11:39
Quote: "I'm lucky enough to have 4mb down and 2mb up streams."


My cable internet is 7 megabit down and 3 megabit up. It's 59.95 a month in canadian funds. All depends on who your providers are, and how competative they are with outher broadband providers in the area.

I don't think I mentioned NG serving via cable? NG is fantastic by the way. I downloaded the trial and will be purchasing it after I move. I noticed that in the demo, the laser doesn't paint on the walls at certain angles. Never sat down to try and figure out why.

Tree maker is also very cool as is ExGen. Can't wait to get those aswell.

Hmm...I've gone way off topic...

[rant]
mmorpg talk... *grumble*
[/rant]

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
nuclear glory
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 11:46
Sorry, didn't catch that part of the thread, lol.

Quote: "I noticed that in the demo, the laser doesn't paint on the walls at certain angles."


<insert more off topic data>
You know what, I noticed that too, although it worked perfectly before the DBP patches were released as I recall, lol. We're going to fix all of this for the upcoming release.
<end insert>

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Tapewormz
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Posted: 20th Jul 2004 12:05
Regardless, it's wickedly impressive. I'm going to buy a licensed vesion from you for sure.

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!
nuclear glory
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 09:43 Edited at: 25th Jul 2004 09:44
Thank you kindly

Our proposed service is now a reality service.

Page at:
http://www.nuclearglory.com/nn/

Because of the high bandwidth amount in a mmorpg though we would need to prepare a custom networking job for the game specifically. This service is good for 2-4 person netplay if you use the free service or for 2-8 person high speed play (like FPS multiplayer) if you use the paid service. Note that there are an unlimited number of rooms.

The game could start as something smaller and work up to mmorpg status if it grew enough

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Cian Rice
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 13:30
That's what I plan to do for a MORPG in the far furture.
Glad that you exist NG.

Got anime?I do.
Oneka
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 13:38
Hey Nuke if I get a license for your collision DLL can I change the name of the DLL to like Collision or something for my games?


Making better games everday!
Oh yeah and just so you know its Oh-nek-a not One-ka!
nuclear glory
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 13:53 Edited at: 25th Jul 2004 13:54
Thanks Anime BLOOD

Quote: "if I get a license for your collision DLL can I change the name of the DLL to like Collision or something for my games?"


I don't see why not. As long as you're not cracking it or giving away access keys we're cool. In fact, it might help protect the DLL when you redistribute as part of your program(s) (so crackers won't recognize it by name, etc...). Be sure to change the name in the include file as well.

Lead Programmer/Director
Powerful Collision DLL for DBPro and DBC: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Lightwave Scene Exporter to .X also at: http://www.nuclearglory.com
Ilya
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Posted: 25th Jul 2004 14:46
Or change it to "BINKW32.DLL".
I have an idea on how to make a game with more than 255 people:

Only get info about the players in a certain radius. And make a script to ask the mmorpg server what people are close to you.

-Ilya
nuclear glory
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Posted: 26th Jul 2004 02:38
@ilsoft
You're right on target. Actually, that's necessary to cut back server bandwidth rather than break the 255 limit. Theoretically our service could power 65,000+ simultaneous people at once, but each person doing a broadcast to everyone else would create like a super massive bandwidth hit (and super slow down). So radii calcs are the way to go, or other methods that can be dreamed up

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Tapewormz
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2004 08:24
Change it to wsock32.dll and copy it into your windows/system directory.

Trust me...It's cool.

Ok, don't do that...

Quote: " Timesoft - Your wife is death. How? NO idea.
But it is murder. REVENGE!!!!!!!!!"

Hands down the funniest synopsis for a game ever. All your base are belong to us!

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