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Geek Culture / Found this about Darren Brown on a magic site.......

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 02:34
Originally Posted by newbie32
I had the good fortune of being 'selected' for Derren's new series 'trick of the mind'. I spent a day filming with Derren and also had dinner with him. I now know exactly how he does his tricks, and can quite confidently confirm that no mind-reading, NLP or psychology is used. It's all a con.

First off, you must understand that almost EVERY SINGLE PERSON on the show who Derren does a trick on has been pre-selected at a hypnosis audition. Random members of the public are invited by word of mouth to a secret audition, where Derren performs routine hypnosis methods, such as getting people to clasp their hands together real tight till they can't open them, making them imagine walking down and down and down staris while listening to his voice etc etc He basically hypnotises the audience in the traditional way. Obviously not all the audience are hypnotisable, and he gradually selects those who are.
The hypnosis was exactly the same as the two hypnosis shows i've been part of on stage, and also read about in hypnosis books.
Once he had about 10 really hypnotisable people his production company got our details and we all went home. (the london cabbie was at my audition, as well as the 'scared' film student)

On the day of filming Derren hypnotised me again, in private away from the cameras. He told me that when he said X i would do Y. Simple. So, when the cameras started rolling, he did his usual stupid schpeel pretending to influence me by saying 'cryptic' things like 'sometimes you mind does things you don;t know about' and 'i can read from your eyes that you are suggestible'. Of course, I was hypnotised and just had to respond to his X command. Exactly like on the Paul McKenna shows.

The con is that he will never show himself hypnotising people, and just pretends like the 'stooge' is a normal random person. There are three lies here
a) they are a stooge
b) they have been hypnotised off camera
c) no NLP or psychology is used, and whatever he claims he is doing is false.

Needless to say he said X and I did Y. I was truly hypnotised and the 'trick' worked. But of course the audience of the show are made to think that I have been sublimenly influenced by the way he talked to me on camera. NOT TRUE.

Anyway, we spent the day filming, doing the same trick at different locations, each time I had to pretend like I'd just met him.

He then took me and his PA out to dinner, and this is when he told me his secrets. (not all of them of course)

He said to me: 'Don't think that I hypnotised you. I didn't. I used a combination of mind control techinques and was influencing you on an unconscious level. So, don't go round telling people I hypnotised you.'
He said this while looking straight into my eyes. I almost cracked up laughing.
I asked how he felt conning people so badly, to which he replied ' I'm not conning them. I'm entertaining them. I'm making them react by setting up the trick to make it look more powerful than it is. That's what magic is about.'

I got a little angry with him and basically told him that he was a hypnotist. At this point he retaliated by showing me some card tricks. He did that one on his new series that he did with stephen fry. (he has pre-rolled cards in two different cigarette packets in his pocket, and a false deck which only shows eoght cards repeated when viewed from one side, and a whole pack when viewed from the other side)

He then said 'do you think i'm conning you now that you know how that card trick was done?' I said ' no, it's just a card trick, and you siad that it would be just that - a card trick. The con i'm worried about is that you tell your audience rubbish about influencing people and reading body signals and you're not, you're hypnotising them, then lying to the audience'.

needless to say, he wasn't too impressed. He still paid for my dinner.

so, i can now tell you how his other tricks are done:

phonebooth: pre-hypnotised person picks up phone, derren says 'sleep'. person sleeps.

mind-reading for 10p : pre-hypnotised people 'meet', and just say exactly what derren told them to say

london cabbie: pre-hypnotised cabbie 'forgets' where something is, just because he's been told to. NB nothing to do with derren banging on the window or interupting patterns.

invisible man: pre-hypnotised guy actually thinks he can't see derren.NB nothing to do with what derren says to him.

how many fingers?: pre-hypnotised kid pulls out the number of fingers that derren says. NB derren 'guesses' a number, and the kid pulls this same number out of his pockets AFTER derren said the number, because he's been hypnotised to respond to derren's guess.

i could go on, but you get the picture. If you have difficulty understanding how he does future tricks, just think about the fact that derren has simply hypnotised his stooge beforehand, and whatever he says on camera is misleading pyschobabble rubbish designed to get the NLP freaks turned on

not all of his tricks are done by hypnosis. the remainign few are simple card tricks and sleight of hand magic. remember, he used to be a sleight of hand magician before. these tricks are very good tricks in their own right, but again derren cons the audience by making them think he's influenced people with his 'mind-control', when really, it's just a simple trick.

i suppose the die-hard fans are saying 'so what? it's still entertaining'. yes, it is entertaining, because derren hypes it up so much more than it deserves, and he covers it with a facade of pyschology which simply isn't true. i don't like being lied to, nor do i like someone making a living out of lying to thousands of people. that's why i'm exposing him.

that said, he is a very nice man, quite witty too. shame about being such a big fake.

(PS: sadly, the trick he did on me is not going to be shown in this series, according to his production company who rang me last week)

hexGEAR
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 03:04
he sounds so dissapointed like he "actually" thought it was real, none of this stuff is... but hey, it's just like wrestling entertainment, WWE, WCW etc, everyone knows it's fake (to a degree) but lots of people still watch it and i don't see that changing anytime soon!

Dave J
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 10:37
I'd like to know how why he even bothers with this hypnosis rubbish when he could just find a guy that's willing and ask him to just think of the number he tells them to or say the word he wants them to, etc. That would be a lot more time and cost-effective.


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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 11:06
Some of the stuff is subliminal suggestion.
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 12:17
Well, at least he hypnotises them.. I just thought he paid a load of actors for his show.

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 12:45
None of the stuff is subliminal suggestion.

newbi 2 basic
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:06
Maybe Derren hypnotised him to post on forums trying to expose all his secrets kind of like the masked magician


heh! yeah i thought it would have something to do with hypnotisim.

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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:49 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 13:49
Quote: "None of the stuff is subliminal suggestion."


Some of it is.
I remember this one a few series ago. It was the first thing on the program, he did it to the camera. He asked to think of two simple geometric shapes, then make one of them smaller and put one inside the other.

Everyone thinks of a circle inside a triangle because he makes those shapes with his hands when talking:



I tried it on my friends and it works. Just keep saying "focus in your mind" and when you do that do a "focusing" movement with your hands (move them away from your face) and make a shape. Make sure the triangle shape always grows and the circle shrinks. The finish with that last shape.
Dave J
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 13:52
Yeah, I remember seeing that on an Ad for his show down here, I noticed he did it with his hands too.


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 15:43
Quote: "Some of it is.
I remember this one a few series ago. It was the first thing on the program, he did it to the camera. He asked to think of two simple geometric shapes, then make one of them smaller and put one inside the other.
"


Oh yeah, That's a good trick. Ok so he uses some subliminal suggestion then. He tends to suggest that he is doing that all of the time. I liked how he beat the Chess Masters the best. He played each of them by using the move that the last Chess Master used, so he could beat them, they were actually playing each other.

Dave J
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:20
So then technically he could only beat one?


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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 16:41
He had nine players. He played most of them of against each other and I think he hyptonised one of them so he could beat them.

He won the majority but he also guessed how many pieces would be left on each board (?!).

He does have an awesome memory.
David T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 17:43 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 18:11
Anybody see the one where he got the orchestra to play a tune by thinking?

I wonder how he did that...

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Ian T
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 17:49
Well what did you think it was, telepathy ? It's unfortate he lies about so many of his shows, but really, that's all it is, a show. Like wrestling.

Rob K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 19:29 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 19:42
Quote: "i don't like being lied to, nor do i like someone making a living out of lying to thousands of people. that's why i'm exposing him."


Derren Brown is a magician - what did he expect?

From that point of view, whether or not its real is irrelevant, its made to entertain people, and I greatly enjoyed watching the series.

When you see Derren with the dark coat, and his rather surreal manners, people should know perfectly well that its not serious scientific programme.

Hey, it fooled me

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 19:33
I've seen Derren Brown, and I've seen the "preparatory" meetings. The bottom line is, he's very good at what he does. And he does what t says on the tin - amixture of pyschological influence, hypnosis, trickery and showmanship. He tells you that at the beginning of every show.

A Stooge is someone who is part of the production, not somebody who has met earlier. The meeting is about finding suitable subjects. If you see him live, you will see him reject people because they cannot be influenced. Just like any job.

If you think it's all pyschological, then you're probably a good subject because you're gullible. But if you think he's a "fake", you're probably bitter about cheesy pop singers who made a lot of money too.

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BatVink
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:15
By the way, I wonder how many people he had to hypnotise to leave a wallet on the street in the centre of London, and nobody pick it up.

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Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:20
I recon that might have been faked by having a photo that looks like a 3D wallet from that one place where the camera is.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:23
Quote: "By the way, I wonder how many people he had to hypnotise to leave a wallet on the street in the centre of London, and nobody pick it up.
"


That's the point really....Once you know that he is lying then none of the tricks really count anymore. The wallet could be a computer graphic, or the people walking past could be actors. His cheating makes the illusions pointless.

soapyfish
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:24
If you go on his website ( or at least the old channel four one) there's loads on there telling you how to do some of the things he does and some video clips showing you him doing things and then telling you exactly how he does what fe's doing. Less of a con, more just showing how gullable(spelling) we all are.

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Neil19533
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 21:57
On the channel 4 web site [href]www.channel4.com/mindcontrol[/href]
it tells you how the wallet one is done. And it says that if you put a circul around something people think it is suspiciouse and so dont pick it up.

Any spelling mistakes are totally In tensional.
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:54
If he really did use stooges don't you think it would've been released in the papers? They pay ridiulous amounts of money for these storys - money C4 couldn't afford to pay them in wages!

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TheAbomb12
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:02
This has nothing to do with hypnosis...

In the true act of hypnosis, the subject is 100% aware of surrounding at all times. You can't just make people "do" things against thier will. You can make a person quit smoking with hypnosis, but I'm pretty sure they won't fall asleep in a phone booth by hypnotizing them; hypnosis doesn't have that kinda of power, and anyone who says otherwise is a sham.

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Dazzag
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:28
I saw a program a while back that said that hypnosis can make you do anything. They said it's a well known myth that hypnosis can't make you do certain things. They went on to say that you can't make someone do something under hypnosis that they wouldn't want to do. So you can't say "See that cliff? Jump off it", as they would know it would kill them, and the wouldn't do it. But, if you basically (by going round the houses a bit) got them to believe there was a massive bouncy castle under the cliff, or that the cliff was only 2 foot high or somesuch, then they would do it (jump on the bouncy castle for example). But apparently you had to be really good to weave the lie into a totally believable scenario.

Dunno if it's true as I've never been hypnotised, but sounded pretty convincing. I mean if you can't make them do something they wouldn't normally do, then how come that hypnotist a few years ago got all those fit women to sleep with him after his show? And he had a face like the back of a bus. Apparently suggested to them that he looked just like they favourite film star.

Cheers

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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:50
I've got a teacher who was a complete sceptic and went to a hypnotist show and said he didn't believe it, and he was made to dance around like a chicken or something.

I'll never truly believe till it's done to me.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:05
I like the circle around the wallet idea. Actually I must give him some credit for the actual stunts that he does perform. He does have some good stuff mixed with the facade.

Powersoft
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:14
he doesnt claim to be a mind reader therefore he isnt lying

Im not a rubbish programmer...Everyone else is just better than me....
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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:06
Do they show Derren Brown in America?
Jess T
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 16:22
About the wallet thing... is the camera up close?

Cos that could have something to do with why they wouldn't pick up the wallet ( ie, they look at the wallet, and about 5 meters away is about 4 guys crowding around a camera pointed at the wallet ).

But, i could be totally wrong, cos I've never heard of this guy, nor seen his show.

Jess.


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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 18:47
"The Wallet" is exactly as described above. You see a wallet, you see a big yellow circle, you assume that it is under surveillance. The camera is not in view.

There have been other programs about pyschological "phenomena". For example, facing the wrong way in a lift because everybody else is, staying in an exam room filling with smoke with everybody else because you can't talk and nobody else seems bothered.

What gets me is the number of people who walk past somebody who has apparently collapsed in a telephone box. But then that's London for you.

BatVink
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Chris K
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 19:01
I remember this program where someone bet someone else they couldn't give away fifty pounds in Waterloo station.

No one would take it because they thought it was suspicious.
TheAbomb12
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 19:54
My mother is a *real* certified hypnotist, so I know abit about it.

Your mind has a conscience and a sub-conscience. in you Conscience, are thoughts, feelings, reactions that you know about. Your sub-Conscience are thoughts that are hidden from even yourself, but your sub-conscience can influence you conscience.

During hypnosis, your sub-conscience opens up; but you are still 100% conscience (aware) of your surroundings. At no time does your sub-Conscience "overrule" your consience.

You can cure bad habits with hypnosis; you can recover lost memories; you can find true feelings; you can relieve stress; You can help people go to sleep at night easier; but at no time can you influence a person to do something completly against thier will. Remember, people are 100% aware during hypnosis, so the most you can influence is things they would do when not in hypnosis.

Amist the Blue Skies...
Dave J
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 10:36
Quote: "There have been other programs about pyschological "phenomena". For example, facing the wrong way in a lift because everybody else is, staying in an exam room filling with smoke with everybody else because you can't talk and nobody else seems bothered."


Lol, I love those ones. It's like you get a group of people to stand outside and point up into the sky, anyone who walks past stops and keeps looking upwards to try and see what you're pointing at.


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Jess T
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 16:25
Or, when in a group ( I do this one to my friends all the time hehe ), you point somewhere where none of them are looking and just start laughing hysterically, and say "look, look, look" and so they do, and when they do, you just stop laughing and walk away...

It confuses the hell out of people, and they still come after you saying "What were you laughing at?"

Dunno if that fits into the catergorie, but still.

Jess.


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