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Geek Culture / Skill Dev Challenges:

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zenassem
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 20:30 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 03:33
As I'm looking through the Forums, I can see post after post of discouraged DB/DBpro users. Often it is because beginners don't know where to start, coding by oneself can seem lonely, don't have enough time or commitment to finish a full game, etc...

Just look at the Team Request Board. Better yet, Don't!

Even experienced programmers need time away from their projects to just code some fun stuff. Not everyone enjoys, or is capable of the 20 line challenge.

So I thought it "could" be interesting to have our own Skill Dev. Thread. Where people could take a stab at small demo's and help eachother and learn from other's coding.

For example. The first Challenge could be based on a "Gauntlet" theme. Try to code something from the game. You can either code an entire level, or just a character animation, a GUI, a collsion snippet, pathfinding snippet, code how you would keep track of items, keys, potions, a health meter, a tilemap/system, Perhaps just some artwork. Feel free to enhance the original and try some 3D examples. The idea is for people to work on their skills and learn fromm others.

(for clarification: I am "not" intending that the snippets will work together or result in a collabrative game.)

NOTE:
C&C should be given and recieved in a well meaning way. The one golden rul: Don't be an as_ !

Noob's should feel welcome, and not intimidated. This would be a thread for learning, not seeing who is better than who.

We could set a time to recieve submissions. Vote on another theme/genre. Does this sound interesting to anyone?

Also, lets try to start with this theme. We could spend eternity saying oh, it should have been Bomberman, Metroid, Zelda...

I'll set the deadline for the Gauntlet submissions for 1 Month:
JULY 1 2004.

After which, we can have a 3 day period for people to postt on what the next theme should be. So please hold off until then with posting your ideas. Hence suggestion post should be made on:
JULY 1st, 2nd, 3RD.

On the 4th the new Theme will be chosen based on the suggestions.


Chaos
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:21
Hey

This sounds like a great idea and i think it should be implemented. I think since im bored stupid ill have a stab at a gauntlet style level.

Chaos


[center] New Project announcment coming soon[center]
Chris K
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:40
What's Gaunlet?
Chaos
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:54
Gunatlet was an arcade game some years ago that has had varying successors up to Dark legacy for the X-box.

Basically you run through an almost endless series of dungoeuns collecting everthing and not getting killed.

Chaos


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Dgamer
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 22:55
its a fancy word for punishment, torture, or challenge. Or he might mean the glove.

The statement below is true
The statement above is false
Chaos
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:20
A few questions i think should be clarified:

1)Do we provide the source and the exe or just the exe? If only GUI or potions are coded these can only be goven in snippet form.
2)I dont think it fair to say expereianced user can try 3d as 2d can be just as hard and sometimes harder than 3d. I think you should cange the wording
3)Can teams of people join or is it for one person?

I know what im going to do so only the first applies to me but im think these questions should be answered. So come on then people lets SKILL BUILD!!

Chaos


[center] New Project announcment coming soon[center]
IanM
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:26 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 00:52
Really nice idea zenassem

@chaos
It's not a competition. If you want to do this in a team, or in 2d or 3d, or even with stick figures, then that's up to you. It's all down to what you want to get out of it.


If anyone needs any help or clues, I'd be glad to give pointers ... not gonna write it for you though

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Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:44
The wizard needs food badly!

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 00:48
Gauntlet was a good game, and would be a great test for DB Pro. I don't think that DB Classic could handle all of the images.

Jimmy
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:15
Yeah DBC blows.... heh

But seriously, I think next month's theme needs to be a bit more general. Gauntlet is good, but as you could see, not everyone has played it, thus making it harder for everyone to contribute.

I think it's a great idea and hope it works, I would participate, but gauntlet just doesn't interest me enough. Maybe next month's should be Bikini Women... that will interest quite a few and it's more broad... get it? BROAD? haaaaa

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zenassem
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 03:41 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 04:12
Chaos,
I changed the wording on that. You can work with a team, but just keep in mind that the idea is each person can learn and have some fun.

I think it would be important to post the code, or have it available for download. If you have an .exe it would be nice to include the media, and provide the source. I will try to find a Web-Site/FTP site that hold the resources, but until then I need to ask that everyone use their own hosting if your files are large. You can use www.photbucket.com for images and screenies.

If anyone knows of a free or good hosting site for this type of content you can email me at zenassem@hotmail.com.

Gauntlet Backgound:
Gauntlet (game)
Gauntlet is an arcade game by Atari Games. The original Gauntlet, released in 1985 during an economic recession in the USA, quickly became popular and (for the game owners) gained a reputation for strong earnings. Gauntlet is played by 1-4 players who control the muscular Warrior, adept Wizard, strong Valkyrie, and the Elf archer as they traverse a dungeon attacking persistent monsters and collecting gold. The players must cooperate by sharing food and luring monsters into places where they can be engaged and slaughtered more conveniently. Although no credit is given in the game's design, its setting and design was strongly influenced by the original Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game, successfully adapted to an arcade game setting.

Gauntlet II was released in 1986. It had entirely different dungeons, large Dragons appearing in certain levels, selectable characters (allowing multiple Wizards or other characters) and many other new features.

Atari Games revisited the theme in 1998, producing Gauntlet Legends, a 3-D version of the game. Gauntlet: Dark Legacy followed in 2000 and introduced new characters: the Knight, the Sorceress, the Dwarf and the bomb throwing Jester.

Home versions of Gauntlet have been released for the Commodore 64, Nintendo Entertainment System, Nintendo Gamecube, Playstation 2, and other systems.


Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 03:45
Funny, I am already working on a Metroid game.

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zenassem
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 04:08 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 05:17
Here are som images/links for reference.







A Simple 8-bit version


http://coinop.org/g.aspx/100065/Gauntlet_II.html
http://coinop.org/g.aspx/100064/Gauntlet.html


DarkSin
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 04:27
Great idea!
Though unfortunetly don't expect to see me in it any time soon . Im entering 2 diffrent competitions this summer and then I got my senior project im working on (look at my sig).


Chaos
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:59
@IanM : I know its not a compettiton i was just windering whether or not you could team uo with someone. I never do games or demos in teams but i thought it should be clarrified.

I do agree that if this picks up then the them next time should be more general.

Chaos


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zenassem
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 14:39 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 14:52
Chaos,
Well if people don't really aren't interested in the 'Gauntlet' theme I'm not opposed or in any real authority to prevent changing it. I just figured it was easier for me to pick something up front that could get the ball rolling.

But give me a chance to explain why I picked this game as the theme.

I really did try make it as general as I could, yet everyone is working around a common theme, which makes it fun. I might not be explaining it correctly though. It is fairly general.

You can code anything, but try to keep it within the Gauntlet theme. It doesn't have to be a full or even partial game. Small code snippets that have something to do with the theme are ok as well. Make it a first or third/person shooter like heretic. Again just code as much or as little as you care to. Then share it with everyone, so people can learn. If your stuck others can offer help.

Reasoning Behind Choosing Gauntlet

- It's a 2D game that easily lends itself to 3D (and has been done in 3d, in sequels). It also has examples of simple graphic ports, see my reference pick of the appleIIC Version.
- It has simple collision but you can take it as far as you would like.
- There's inventory, items, keys, treasure, scoring, character attributes, but not too many like an rpg.

- There is scrolling, multiplayer cooperative, Power-ups, pretty simple graphics for even the non-artists.In fact I'm sure someone could do a very convincing version using ascii characters.

- There is Artificial Intelligence, PathFinding, an projectile code.
- There are triggers and timed events.
- Can implement 2d tile based screens, or go full throttle 3D.
- Has the possibility for random maze generation code.
- A simple input handler. <left, rigth, up, down, attack, magic item>.
- And Of course I always loved this game.
"The wizard is about to die"

misc.
All in all it's a fun game, that has it roots in D&D and RPG's, which many people seem to like. It has hacking & salshing, and tactics. All of this on a scale that can be done on a novice level, but offers the freedom to truly get advanced.

And if someone wanted to they could actually finish coding a level or two in a month.

Last but not least, you can download the DOS/95 version for free. and I have the ROM. I'll post a few links if people can't find it. hence, I can provide people with the animated gifs from the game and/or actual tiles, music, speech etc...


Chaos
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 14:50
Ok thats me convinced.

Chaos


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soapyfish
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 16:25
Hey all,
Just thought this might help, as far as I can tell its a playable version of a game that's just like gauntlet.

http://www.funrunner.co.uk/games/flashgauntlet2.swf

WAS DOING AN FPS BUT RAN AWAY AND STARTED ON MISSILE COMMAND INSTEAD.
Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 17:35
I know gauntlet as "garrison" from the Amiga.

Hmm, a specific theme? A deadline? Say....you wouldn't be trying to get ppl to write a game for you now would ya?

I've done a basic click and drag inventory system. Should be in code snippets or code base somewhere.

"eureka" - Archimedes
zenassem
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 18:38
Phalex,

Quote: "Hmm, a specific theme? A deadline? Say....you wouldn't be trying to get ppl to write a game for you now would ya?"


- That would have been clever. Unfortunately I'm not that clever. I'll be watching out for you now though!
{ Zen grumbles to himself... Gauntlet? What was I thinking. I should of had them working on Halo 3. I'll fix that next time. Then Pinky and I will "Take Over the World!". Good thing I didn't go with the original title of the Posts. "Zen's Secret Sweat-shop Code4m3Now@b3ecawsIcant.biz".}

The only reason for a deadline, is so that the new topics and themes can be chosen frequently. Not everyone will like or participate in each SkillDev. And if someone could, actually put a game together from the posts I'm expecting, different sizes, schemes, layouts, etc, they truly deserve to have it go to #1 on the all-time sales list.

@code2kill, Thanks for that link. It's a huge help! Although the character moves too slow. For anyone who has never played gauntlet give that link a try, just so you can get a feel for the basic mechanics.


zenassem
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 22:52 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 23:00
I forgot to post the skill challenge. The developement theme is the Gauntlet theme. But I also wanted to have a skill area (kind of like the 20-lines or less).

The 1st skill challenge is to program a demo/game using ASCII characters/text for ALL the graphics. (ink) commands are allowed.
Rules...

Any theme or genre you like.

There aren't many, except...
1. All graphics must be made from ASCII characters.
{You can draw ASCII art and save it as a .bmp,.gif..jpeg etc,
and use load it as a bitmap/image. You can use them as a sprites image if you wish.} As long as it's all made up of characters.

2. All characters must come from the "Arial" font character map.

3. It needs to be a game demo (Not just a screensaver/ graphics demo)

ADVANCED challenge:
Same as Above
*** No saving images and sprite commands. All graphics must be pure ASCII/Text characters.
You can however read them from a data statement or .txt File.

Good luck to all who paritcipate. The forum will collectively decide who did the best job.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

*PRiZES for the Winner. I was thinking that maybe if this "skill Dev thread" catches on (is anyone working on the gauntlet dev, besides me?) that I could get volunteers from the forum to actually have a prize. for example.

A good modeler: Could offer to make a model for the winner.
A good Aritst: Might offer some Textures as a prize.
Plug-in people: Maybe would offer a Plug-in for the winner.

Etc...
So it may be possible to have a prize. I'll have to see if anyone is willing to help support it. Also I need to make sure that the community here is going to participate in the challanges. If so, I will work hard to contact companies to see if They will sponsor a prize like a Free Game or something similar.


IanM
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Posted: 13th Jun 2004 15:56
I don't know how many are taking up this challenge, but I stumbled across the following document from http://www.c64gg.com that will certainly help if you are putting together a full version of the game



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zenassem
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 07:10
OK first failed attempt at getting this challenge started. I'm still working on it, but have spent some time developing my map editor "Tile~Forge".

Anyway In hopes of breathing life into this, I am going to sponsor the first prize. I will purchase any package sod from T.G.C site up to $75.00 in cost. Obviously I will be a judge and will not enter, I will try to find some other people (hopefully a 3-5 judge panel to vote on the winner who are not partial, perhaps I can rope rich, mike, & Lee in, but they are truly busy! If not I need some other judges who can be honest and not just favor people at the forums.)

I'm looking for a new theme since Gauntlet sunk like the Titanic. I'm thinking of new theme Megaman, Mario Bros., Metroid...

This will be a DEV challenge in which at least one complete level should be designed. If I see some interest I will clarify all the rules precicesly. Anyone interested? I'm also thinking of extending this challenge to a 2-month time-span.

~zen


zenassem
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 01:08 Edited at: 5th Jul 2004 01:11
I guess noone is interested in a $75.00 prize

and actually thinking about it, I would prefer not to be an actual judge (as it may seem a hoax, and a conflict of interest), But I still won't enter the contest either. So I need to find some impartial judges, but more importantly some interest from programmers to enter.


ReD_eYe
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 01:23
I'm interested in the $75 prize! But the thread is abit confusing on the rules, could you draw up a list of the rules?

zenassem
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 02:27
Yeah I'm working on them, and I'm waiting to get a concensus on which theme to use.

for eg. only if say megaman was choosed,

Participants would create at least one level of a remake.
It could be in 2-D or 3-D.
You can use any media or sprite rips, that you want (this isn't an art competition)
But all code should be your own.
So say for example the the theme was super mario bros.
you need to build one playable level.
We'll set the maximum playtime for a given level to 5 minutes. This doen't mean that the judges need to finish the level in 5 minutes it just means that 5 minutes of play-time is long enough for a level.


Andy Igoe
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 23:22
Quote: "What's Gaunlet? "

It's Diablo, but back then computers where more powerful and could cope with 4 players on the one machine instead of having to have a network.


Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?

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