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Program Announcements / Route-Finder: customer research

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eat much pie
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:26
I've been working on a route finder program and editor lately that, so far, has been a great success, and I'm planning on selling it in a few months time (very cheap, about $10 - $15). It can handle 3 dimensional route-finding (useful for aircraft games) and 2 dimensional route-finding (for FPS's, RPG's, etc.). It will be able to handle active objects (like lockable doors) and also things like ventilation shafts (so it can work out if you can crouch/crawl into spaces. It can detect whether a path will go over an abiss and change course accordingly (stops you from falling down a cliff), but can be over-ridden in the editor (if you want to jump off a small ledge to get to somewhere).

Anywho, the point of this thread is to find out what functionality you want it to have, and also to introduce some fine-tuning.

To start off, how do you want the camera to be controlled?

At the moment, to rotate or move the camera, you must hold in the control key. Afterwhich, leftmouse button rotates the camera on the x and y axis. Rightmouse button moves the camera forwards/backwards/left/right on the horizontal plane. Both right and left mouse buttons together moves the camera forward/back and rotates along the y axis. The middle button rotates the camera around the 3d point represented by where the mouse is. The mouse wheel moves the camera forwards/backwards in full 3d.

All of that is just a guess at what people may want in the editor, so any advice will be very much appreciated.

And by the way, when I sell it, I'll be selling it like a cross between DBPro and Darkmatter. Meaning you pay for the software, you can't re-distribute the software. You can't sell the route-finding array itself, but you can sell it as part of a program. Just to clarify.

NB. The abilities of my software shown above may be removed/altered/added to. Most likely the latter two.

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
eat much pie
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Posted: 1st Jun 2004 23:48 Edited at: 1st Jun 2004 23:52
More information:

My program will make an array that has the information required to tell AI characters where to go, eg. I want to get from point A to point C. i put this into the DBPro function that uses my array, so it looks something like this:



Other setup commands will govern how this command will control the object (can be automatic, or can just return the position of where you need to go).

To make this array, you'll need my program. The first part of the program is the editor (the user-interface that gives you customisability over checkpoints). In this, you move the camera around your level and click on where you want a checkpoint to be placed. After you've set the positions, you can then use the automatic route-finder to show which routes are feasable (so if there's a clear line of sight between the checkpoints and if your player object can fit in it and if there's a floor beneath the route, then a 3D line (a cylinder) is created between the checkpoints, showing that there is a feasable route between them. Afterwhich, you can then force routes to be created (eg. if you want someone to fall onto a lower platform) or you can delete routes (I can't think of a circumstance at the moment when this would be needed, but it just adds more customisability). Once you've done that, you can then set each checkpoint's range by placing spheres and cuboids about the checkpoint, so when you are colliding with one of these objects, you are considered to be at that checkpoint.

Then, this data is put into the compiler (still part of the same program) and will work out all the shortest possible routes between all of the checkpoints to all of the other checkpoints. This data is then saved as an array, that is then used in DBPro, using my custom functions.

That's how it works (although I'll be added loads more functionality to it). This thread will let you (ie. potential customers and/or good guys) get a say in the functionality of the program in general and in the editor (seeing how you'll be the one's using it, it seems only fair for you to have a say). So at the moment, camera functionality.

You'll be helping yourselves if you help me!

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 01:46
One cool option that is common across many editors of varying types is being able to press space or something and get to fly around the map in first person view. And, as a substitute for Ctrl+L-clicking to rotate, add the option to click the middle mouse button instead.

This looks promising, keep working!

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: KillZone
Web Site Button Does Not Work, Visit Here: http://www.geocities.com/crazydonutproductions/index.html
comando 300
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 02:15 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2004 02:15
you will make a lil demo?


CURRENT PROJECT: RETRO PAC-MAN
eat much pie
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 12:24
@ commando:

In a few weeks time I'll make a beta demo that has no save function, so all you lot can pick at the editor's faults.


@ Bear Crazy Donut Productions:

Um... Perhaps you could draw a table, showing which mouse/keyboard button combinations you want. I'm not quite sure what you ment in your last post. Do you mean an auto-walkthrough mode (ie. just press spacebar and the camera will automatically have a walk around the level)?

Also, I don't quite understand what you ment with regards to the middle button. My current system is:
If you wish to do anything with the camera, you must first hold down the cotrol key to enter camera-control mode. Afterwhich, you can use the mouse and the arrowkeys to rotate, move, and spin about a position. Do you mean I should use the middle button as the 'mode changer' button.

Cheers for the response guys!

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
eat much pie
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 13:24
I've made a beta test that shows you what camera functions I have at the moment. The download is about 2 MB.

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/eatmuchpie/checkpoint_router_installer.exe.

Enjoy!

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
eat much pie
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2004 16:01
What do people think about this method of camera control?

Come on guys! If you help me, you'll be helping yourselves!

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 04:57
It sounds like a good method, that way the camera wont go flying off in all directions when you move the mouse a little (or accidentally click on the screen or such). I like the Ctrl+Mousebutton method.

GXEntertainment - http://gxe.dbspot.com/
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eat much pie
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 12:10
OK then, I'll keep the camera movement like it is and if, later on, enough people want it changed, I can easily do so.

I'm now working on the user-interface for the auto-routing. I'll post another demo soon.

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?i=453288050 : Nuclear Glory, AMAZING COLLISION SYSTEM!
The admiral
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2004 13:38
Sounds interesting ill keep an eye on this.

[href]www.vapourhost.com/~flyer[/href]
eat much pie
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Posted: 4th Jun 2004 18:43 Edited at: 5th Jun 2004 01:53
New Demo!!!

In this demo, I've put in checkpoint creation and auto-routing commands, along with route-forcing (all explained in readme).

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/eatmuchpie/checkpoint_router_installer.exe

NB. When you create a checkpoint, the checkpoint is positioned 5 units above the 3D point represented by the cursor.

Is this a good method, do you think?

How would you like me to implement checkpoint transposing (ie. how do you want to move the checkpoints)?

Do tell...

Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program. http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/eatmuchpie
Jess T
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 08:56
Quote: "how do you want to move the checkpoints"


Click and Draging moves it about the X and Z axis ( the plain of the floor ), and right-clicking moves it up and down along the Y axis.

Jess.


Team EOD :: Programmer/Logical Engineer/All-Round Nice Guy
eat much pie
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 16:32
Yet another demo!!!

In this demo, you can move the checkpoints about (see the readme for more info) and you can also delete checkpoints. When a checkpoint's lines of sight are out of date, it is colored red.

http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/eatmuchpie/Checkpoint_Router_v0.4_installer.exe

Is this a good system?

PS. I've put up a website now (I put it together last night, so don't be too harsh!) The link's in my sig.

Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/eatmuchpie
eat much pie
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 06:31 Edited at: 13th Jul 2004 06:31
Sorry for not updating this thread in such a long time; I've had exams.

Anywho, I have another download. Go to my website and go to the download section (the link is in my sig).

This time, I've implemented an object handling system, so I'm hoping for you lot to find some bugs.

Cheers!

PS. Some of you may feel that I shouldn't have brought this post back to life, but I needed to announce my update, so I would have needed to have created another thread anyway. This way, people can read the other bits of info in this thread, as well as being informed of the update. I'm sorry if I shouldn't have done this.

Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
Guyver Unit 1
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 02:33
your download doesnt work

~im not good at expressing things but who cares, im a god in my mind so Bio-booster Armor!!!.....? o i forgot only in my mind~
spooky
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 03:34
Downloading now..

PS linking to an angelfire zip file from your dbspot website is not allowed and you get an appropriate message! Cut'n'paste link to a new browser and download id ok.


Boo!
eat much pie
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 03:39 Edited at: 17th Jul 2004 03:39
Sorry about the download guys!

I would put it on the dbspot account, but for some reason the .zip file doesn't upload properly. I'll send an e-mail to Jimmy about it.

Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
eat much pie
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 04:01 Edited at: 17th Jul 2004 06:34
That's extremely weird...

Now I can logon to the dbspot server with SmartFTP, and I've uploaded the demo.

The link has also been updated.

What do you think of the User Interface so far?


Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
eat much pie
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 17:30 Edited at: 17th Jul 2004 17:43
going on holiday in about 4 hrs.

When I come back, I want a whole load of questions, comments, and bug reports wating for me to get my teeth into! Without you guys, this software won't go anywhere.

Cheerio!

PS: I think my sig image is pretty

PPS: For whomever it may conccern, my product is compatable with both DBPro and DBclassic.


Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
Terabyte
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Posted: 15th Aug 2004 22:07
Hokay, I love the idea of your software

I havn't read all the comments above.. i'm just judging from what i downloaded..

If there could be an option where .. say pressing an Function key will toggle between typical 1st person movement and the controls that you have set (which are quite ok.. I just prefer being able to move in FPS mode)

Secondly... the mouse and the position of the checkpoint is a bit awkward.. perhaps click once.. and a ghosted object appears... right click if you're not happy with where it is, or click again if you are happy... kinda preview to where it will be.

Otherwise it looks great. Very cool too

Dark Days Software - Entering the DBPRO Competition with Operation Wolf
eat much pie
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Posted: 16th Aug 2004 03:28 Edited at: 16th Aug 2004 03:30
@ terabyte

Cheers for the input! About that FPS camera movement, I think I already have that. It depends on what you think of FPS controls. Do you mean something like: vertical mouse looks up/down, horizontal mouse looks left and right, arrowkeys move forward, back, left and right? Cos I already have that. All you have to do is hold in the control button and the left mouse button. If this isn't what you mean, could you please explain it a bit more please.

With the checkpoint creation, yeh it can sometimes be a bit fiddly. I can't code at the moment, but I'll get right on it tomorrow. What I could do is shift + hold rightmouse button could create a ghosted checkpoint, then the checkpoint will be positioned at the mouse's 3D position until you let go of the right mouse button. After the right mouse button has been released, the object becomes unghosted, and if you want to reposition it in this manner again, then pressing and holding in the middle button on selected checkpoints will do so. Does this sound like a good idea? All sugestions will be welcomed!

Oh, and I've been adding a few more features, like the ability to add active objects and level objects, as well as being able to reposition them at your bidding. I've also added a setup file system, so you can change the settings as you see fit. I'll have to do a bit of messing around before I make another demo, so it will probably be in about 3 days time (give or take a day).

Cheers again for the support!


Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
Sam Wright
eat much pie
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Posted: 17th Aug 2004 23:02 Edited at: 17th Aug 2004 23:05
It's demo time again! Many things have been changed, so make sure you read the readme file thoroughly!

Go to http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com ,then click on download.

Have fun, and remember to post any sugestions/bugs/comments you have.

Cheers!

[edit]
I've now put in a setup.ini file where you can change some settings, so you can change the screen resolution and use fullscreen exclusive mode if the program is running a little too slow.
[/edit]


Checkpoint Router: my very own AI routing program: http://eatmuchpie.dbspot.com
Sam Wright

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