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3 Dimensional Chat / found some free character models...

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walaber
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: 5th Jun 2004 18:18
not sure if they're royalty free or not, but they are amazing models! 10 per pack, all character models...


http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=580


http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=619


http://www.cgnetworks.com/story.php?story_id=672

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

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Matic
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Posted: 5th Jun 2004 20:19
well just so you know it

the models is not low poly and is 10,000+ tri's
walaber
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Posted: 6th Jun 2004 05:48
indeed they are not specifically for real-time use... but you could always run a poly reducer on 'em

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
gothboy 101
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 12:29
how many polys would it have to be to be put in a game?

Chaos Games
zircher
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 02:33
That totally depends on how many other models you have in the game. Figure 1,000 to 2,000 polys for the main characters is a safe range.

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

Game Beavers
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 01:11 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 01:12
Half Life2 uses over 5000 poly for each character in the game.

actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 01:36 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 03:42
That's because half-life 2 uses displacement mapping which relates on a fairly smooth model.

Just like the upcoming UT models...

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation1.jpg

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 01:42 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 01:43
Yoo can see the in-game result on this link below

http://www.unrealtechnology.com/screens/character_creation3.jpg


As you can see,this is not the 2 million polygons model above but rather the control cage which is being displaced in realtime.The renderer only needs the displacement map.

They used this technology through zbrush pretty well in ROTK for further sculpting details on high resolution models.But everyone knows that.

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
gothboy 101
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 02:08
actarus did you do that?

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Mitchell
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 02:25
AHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

"A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 02:30
... oh god my side hurts... HAHAAAHAAHA

actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:38 Edited at: 20th Jul 2004 22:45
Quote: "actarus did you do that?"



I wish...You won't see that kind of quality around here that's for sure lol.

That one is 550,000 and my computer can't go much higher than 1.5 milion.


http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/view_image.php/944VWRTW9K7L/picserver.jpeg


BTW:This was done in 3 hours if anyone is interested

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:52
Cool, is displacement mapping like normal mapping but with a mesh instead of a texture?

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actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 04:05
It's texture map,that's all you need

Check out http://www.pixologic.com for Zbrush and alot of informations.

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:10
http://209.132.69.82/zbrush/zbrush2/GalleryPages/pixolator5.html

Phh, that rotating image is never 281 polygons. That's the 1.2 million version.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 06:55
yeah, it's how Z-Brush get in alot of punters...
'false advertising'

you can't actually create a mesh like the baseone they use to show you either; you'd have to make that in a third party application... the actual detail is also actually purely the displacement maps, which you can do in something like theORB.
You want an impressive version of displacement/normal-mapping then check this out:

http://raven.puffinteractive.com/pub/normaldemo.zip
probably best not to say what language it's in, but what pisses me off is DBP could do that with some 'minor' alterations natively.
but TGC want to go down the 'Shaders for everything' route...

Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 08:37
That is a pretty cool demo, so displacement mapping IS normal mapping? I was trying to get an effect like that with the dbpro bump mapping, but you get a shiny glare along with the shading, which I don't want (may have seen my other post).

Quote: "but what pisses me off is DBP could do that with some 'minor' alterations natively.
but TGC want to go down the 'Shaders for everything' route..."


What do you mean by minor alterations? And what exactly is the "Shaders for everything" route?

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actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 09:57
The main reason Zbrush is soo good is that it can handle over 2 millions polygons very easily.

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 10:16
Quote: "Phh, that rotating image is never 281 polygons. That's the 1.2 million version."


That's inside Zbrush,the displacement mapping will be the same result except that the contour will remain rough.

Inside Zbrush,you don't need to use displacement maps,that's where you create them and I never said anything about creating everything from scratch in zbrush,which has been done over anyways as much for low than high polygon.Just read the boards and use it.You can't judge it by it's cover.


Quote: "That is a pretty cool demo, so displacement mapping IS normal mapping? I was trying to get an effect like that with the dbpro bump mapping, but you get a shiny glare along with the shading, which I don't want (may have seen my other post).

"

Displacement isn't Normal mapping.

Normal mapping alters the normals to simulate a smoother shading on the surface of a low polygon object.

Displacement Mapping deforms surface simulate higher geomtric detail.

Displacements are the cousins of Bump mapping if I can say so.

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 22:17 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 22:22
Quote: "so displacement mapping IS normal mapping?"


Yes, and No...
When your talking in terms of DirectX/OpenGL graphics, then really Bump, Normal and Displacement Mapping are all evolutions of the same technique.

Bump Mapping, uses a Dot Production of the Normal Vector Multiplied by the Light and then placed on a strength of light scale to alter the brightness of a texture map and fake depth.

Normal Mapping, evolves this by taking an rgb image and using that as a 3-float Vector (+Softness) using a Dot Production 3 of the same technique as above to provide a 3D depth.

Displacement Mapping, takes this one step further by altering the texture coordinates of the Normal Map based on the eye vector to make sure that it's height is altered to give depth even at extreme angles. (Normal/Bump Mapping only effectively fools the user upto 45-50° off center, Displacement does it upto 89°)

However in order to stop artifacts appearing from the Displacement and to even use it effectively in the first place the object needs to have subdivision of UV points and take more than one pass at an object.
(this add vertex requirements and pixel pipelines)

Effectively Normal Mapping works wonders and is fast for organic models, basically things that are curved and are constantly moving.
Displacement Mapping is great for static levels where surfaces are flatter and can be more heavily inspected.

Bump Mapping is good as a fast solution when your just adding character to a surface and not trying to fake it being made of more polygons than it actually is.

... non of those solutions will subdivide a surface in order to give it more detail. Infact doing so for a game would infact be counter-productive, the idea is to lighten the processing load; not add to it.

[edit-]
Oh yeah about the part of DBP.
It is possible to give users the exact functionality as Blitz3D has in order to create that Normal Map effect, much quicker and without the use of Shaders (meaning we wouldn't have to rely on shader cards) the same goes for Bump Mapping, and infact the original 1.0 release didn't use FX to achieve it.

But TGC are going down the route of 'any special effect for the engine is going to be Shader based' ... which means everything from normal mapping to reflections, refractions, or even simple texture blending. Will eventually all be part of one big Material (HL2 Style) Engine.

Great for simple graphics creation, unfortunately cuts a VERY large market from bedroom developer markets. It also means that people will need some very very awesomely fast cards just to do some effects rather than now where you just need a relatively fast CPU.

CPUs have and always will be cheaper and more available to upgrade than GPUs; so it is an annoying and quite frankly stupid idea for TGC. I'm not opposed to having a Shader Material Engine; but I am opposed to it replacing what we have and making the markets for people who can use this stuff smaller.

actarus
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 22:32 Edited at: 14th Jul 2004 22:33
You're right,for a non-technical modeler like me,it's a bit hard to explain.

Still,there's not much to know about Displacement mapping then the following(for the artist);

1: Make the model volume(in any app) and make a clean unwrap keeping uv's as square as possible

2: Export your mesh in your prefered app(zbrush here) and paint the displacement map

3: Once painted,Generate&Export only the map,open it in the original scene,apply the DM and render(depending on the workflow,some export settings have to be set)

I remember a good cgtalk link somewhere for a couple of Normal mapping tools,epxorters and info,gotta find it first though.(I think it was posm in the 3dsmax forum)

BlackBird thinks he owns the sky,
But he can't look me in the eye,
-Andy Bell

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