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Geek Culture / Invisibility cloak invented

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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 02:01 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 02:03
Quote: "Yeah, that would just mean you wouldn't see anything on those bits, it would look the colour of the triangles and not the correct colour (what ever is behind the sides of the sphere).
"


The triangles could be mirror-like though. They still hide each other.

Quote: "First, there are two technologies involved that people are mixing."


Nobody is mixing anything. We are not simply talking about the suits that you are talking about. We are talking about the possibilities of suits that haven't been invented yet.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 02:32
:: blinks at Chris :: ya know man i give up on you. you don't have a clue what your on about; or if you do then your obviously on about something completely different and remote to what everyone else is talking about.

Your picture explains nothing. From what I understand you seem to be under the impressionl that what is being projected from the back from the jacket is only exactly what is at the front of the jacket... which makes no sense.

Firstly; if Fiber Optics are used then you weave those optics to projects what is exactly the opposite side; and for what your explaining to be true that would mean they would take an image from the other side and project it - but that isn't how fiber optics work, they're effectively tiney mirrors an would basically let through only a small section of light, effectively a whole which at angle just wouldn't appear period.

If your talking about Prisoms like Pincho is then again what you believe wouldn't stand up at all because they change then angle at which the light is being redirected; which means that the light just be being bounced around like a bunch of mirrors.

If your talking about the projection using a camera then again that crap because what you'd have is abunch of small cameras projecting small sections else you would loose your FOV/Focus/Framing... each one would translate slightly wrong but most human eyes would compensate and create the illusion.

If your talking about the layered refraction jacket, then again what you describe is poop because what is happening is light comes in from all angles and the export angle dictacts the colour change; there is nothing actually being processed through.

I can't actually figure out which way of achieveing this we've all explained you could be on about. Quite frankly i don't think you have a clue what your on about even remotely.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 03:22
Well I know what Chris is on about. I'm not talking about prisms. I'm talking about fibre Optics that wind around the body to triangular inverted mirrors, that bounce light at 45%. Like those pictures that animate on plastic coated cardboard. You can't see the picture on one side of the triangle until you turn the picture slightly. The triangles hide each other. Now combine that with cameras, and fibre optics, and you have a pretty good camouflage suit.

Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 04:59
I really like this Cloak thingy.

You don't fool around with drums and you don't joke about drums... You play drums.
Eldar
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 05:05
Quote: "I really like this Cloak thingy."
Yet another brilliant statement by Z Interactive.

3.1 ghz Pentium 4
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DX 9
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 11:39


That's a fibre optic lamp. As you can see, the little fibre optic cables give out light the same as comes in the other end. So putting loads of them together would give a pretty high resolution picture of what's behind it.

OK, so we cover a cube with loads of fibre optic cables, like in your invisibility suit, and put it in my room with four different coloured walls.

Now lets only look at one specific cable. Let's say it's showing red because it's one side 2. This will make the cube invisible from side 2. Now let's look at the cube from the blue and yellow corner. That cable, and all the ones around it, will still be showing red. They should, however, be showing green, as that is what is now behind that side.

About your physics, Raven.
The Graviton has not been found yet but it is the accepted particle from carrying gravitational force. Every single physicist agrees that it probably exists. Have you honestly never heard of it? It's on the A Level syllabus.

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Graviton.html

Gravity has nothing to do with electrons. If gravity was carried by electrons then it wouldn't act on electrons and they wouldn't be able to be held in the atom.

Quote: "Gravity is an Atomic Magnetic Field "


Why say something like that? Where did you learn that? Show me the link. That is complete crap. Gravity has nothing to do with Electrons, Protons or Magnetism - that's electro static force.

Finally, I don't care about the "other factors" - what are they, by the way? - What colour would that sphere be in that room???

Just try and work out what colour each side would be and then you'll see how it can't work.
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 12:04
Quote: "Now lets only look at one specific cable. Let's say it's showing red because it's one side 2. This will make the cube invisible from side 2. Now let's look at the cube from the blue and yellow corner. That cable, and all the ones around it, will still be showing red. They should, however, be showing green, as that is what is now behind that side."


Why would they be showing red? I mentioned that the triangles hide each other. You might see a faint line of red around the edges where some of the triangles stick out a bit, but I think that it would be good enough. I'm not talking about a flat plain, I'm talking about a body suit which would be cylindrical in shape. The cameras would be located around the suit, creating a cylindrical map, or a cylindrical picture on the suit. The cameras would light up the fibre optics from the inside of the suit. The fibre optics would be coated in black rubber to prevent them from bleeding into each other. The triangle mirrors would be 2 sided, each side producing a different colour like a holographic 2D animated picture in a cereal.

I can see how this is hard to make, but I don't think it's impossible to make an invisibility suit, even if it's not this method.

Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 12:28
old news. Remember that russian girl that could see through things? Some genetic disorder apparently left her with the ability to see inside ppl.

"eureka" - Archimedes
Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 12:35
Huh??? Not possible.

Fallout
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 18:05
&Chris Knott

Don't worry. I'm with you. Ignore these unbelievers. I've seen a few TV programmes demonstrating what you're saying exactly, and it makes sense.

Btw, Raven's discussions are usually based on 50% knowledge and 50% completely random made up babble in an attempt to make himself sound more educated than he actually is.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 19:20
Well something like this, with some tweaking. Surely we can get something to work.




Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 20:02
Look first point of fact here is...
There is Science Theory and Science Fact;

They're not allowed to teach theory in A-Level, UNLESS it can be proven there is a relationship and the students are willing to accept it is a theory.

According to the link you provided Gravitons = Bosons; Gravitons cannot be proven but are believed to exist, I dont' deal with Science Fiction, only Science Fact. Boson's are proven to be there.
Sub-Atomic structures, works exactly like the Atomic structure, the relationships all go forward and actually prove that Gravity is nothing more than an Electrically created Field that affects objects on the atomic structure rather than the molecular structure that magnatism does.

As I said it is all about ORDERING particles, which is where String Theory comes in, and to a point proves that all Atoms are structured as looped strings, as when the order is given a direction and state no matter how fast you speed up the particles all it does is create the field around them to be stronger rather than splitting them apart.

It is how current 'Anti'-Gravity fields are formed, but as there is still not enough know about what is going on at the Sub-Atomic level, there is no way to predict or calculate how to control the reaction. So this often results in the atoms shattering and becomming unstructured ionic plasma.

Quote: "Why say something like that? Where did you learn that? Show me the link. That is complete crap. Gravity has nothing to do with Electrons, Protons or Magnetism - that's electro static force."

It's part of the Thesis I did for my Masters at the Derby University.
Tell me, what is Electro Static Force? How do you describe it and how do you explain it?

Go through the Periodic Chart, circle the atomic structures that are magnetic. Compare them to the other atomic structures.
It should be easily noticeably what they have which others don't.

Next thing you need to understand is what is the Electro-Static force and how does that work?
If you notice when you cause Static electricity only certain materials can build up this (again if you look at them on the periodic table you'll notice a corilation). What causes it is the alteration of the atoms density which offsets the balance...

Balanced an atom = -+ behaviour, Magnetic Structures have an ordered - switching it from a -- to a -+ structure (-+)+ ; the order of which streams from the end you set the polarisation ... Ionic have eccess - which outbalance the + this means the overall structure is (--)+ ... this causes atomic attaction.
You can outbalance an atom in a similar way to cause a -(++) effect which repels atomically.

It's all about balancing the atomic structure, you off balance it and you can manipulate what happens.
I would have to look at my paper again to find the research i did on it.

As for the fibre optics. your assuming that only 1 side setup...
Remember inside a jacket the jackets fibers would hide the colours at an angle meaning you need OTHER fiber optics at given angles.

It's exactly like how a cube map works; you reverse the faces being shown, which wouldn't work if you apply the cubemap using model space but a fiber optic wouldn't... it would apply an FOV pixel; which means you'd be applying it via the Projection matrix

Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 21:41 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 21:42
Gravity has nothing to do with positive and negative. There is no charge involved.

No elements are inherently magnetic.

Quote: "i've never heard of 'gravitons'"


Quote: "Masters at the Derby University"


Something doesn't add up.

Quote: "Gravity is nothing more than an Electrically created Field "


What are you talking about?!

GRAVITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ELECTRICITY. THERE IS NO POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE ATTRACTION IN GRAVITY.

If gravity was based on electrons and protons:

- How would gravity effect electrons and protons themselves?
- Why are two negatively charged things still attracted by gravity?

Please provide links for you outlandish claims that Gravity is an electrical magnetic field.







Seriously? You never heard of gravitons?
the_winch
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 21:49
Quote: "If you notice when you cause Static electricity only certain materials can build up this (again if you look at them on the periodic table you'll notice a corilation). What causes it is the alteration of the atoms density which offsets the balance..."


Perhaps you could expain this correlation.
Here is a periodic table image, explain it.


Quote: "
Balanced an atom = -+ behaviour, Magnetic Structures have an ordered - switching it from a -- to a -+ structure (-+)+ ; the order of which streams from the end you set the polarisation ... Ionic have eccess - which outbalance the + this means the overall structure is (--)+ ... this causes atomic attaction."


I don't understand what you are talking about here. If you have a masters at Derby perhaps you can use standard scientific terminology.

Quote: "As for the fibre optics. your assuming that only 1 side setup...
Remember inside a jacket the jackets fibers would hide the colours at an angle meaning you need OTHER fiber optics at given angles."


You can't do that, there isn't enough room for all the fibers. You would need fibers going from every place light hits the object to where the light should be.
I doubt it's possible to make a lump of fiber optic cables that do that, let alone when they are surrounding an object.

can i scream
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:10 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 22:18
Quote: "If you notice when you cause Static electricity only certain materials can build up this (again if you look at them on the periodic table you'll notice a corilation"


Let's see ... all metals, all hydrocarbons, polymers...

What about materials that can hold static electricity but aren't on the periodic table? Like polystyrene?

Please demonstrate this pattern though, I'm looking forward to it.

EDIT______________________________-

That equation too -
Quote: "Gravity Field = Density*Electron(/Proton:Electron)"


"* Electron"?
That well known measurement or constant - electron.
How do you times something by electron?

Please don't make up stuff. Please provide a link to a site with that equation on.



Or not.



Because gravity has nothing to do with electrons.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:26
Do the research for yourself...

Quote: "How would gravity effect electrons and protons themselves?"

This would be simple to understand IF you understood the principals behind gravitational forces.

Quote: "Why are two negatively charged things still attracted by gravity?"

:: sighs :: do you even understand the principals at work here?
the first point you want to remember is:

Molecular -> Atomic -> SubAtomic
C -> ASM -> Binary

in the simplest of terms; to understand how the electrons stay within thier orbits is simple.
Speed = Energy, Energy = Larger Effect Field, so basically it counter balances it's speed with the energy output.

Thus
Positive - (Negative*Speed) = 0 ... this is always a fact.

And the SubAtomic level works in 3 Levels;
-1 / 0 / +1

Basically everything works with addition at this level; so you can figure out exactly what the field effect will be.
Most of the time you will find that Atoms works using the Basics...

Electron = -1 + -1
Positron = +1 + +1
Neutron = +1 + -1

However you will notice there are some atoms which are identical structures but are heavier. This is due to the SubAtomic level, and why these atoms exhibit unusual behaviour.

... ... ...

if you want an example of Atmoic structure on a larger level, i'd suggest you take up astronamy
you might understand far far better what is going on if you understand what every planetry body has, and what it radiates, and why.

When you pay attention you'll notice that the universe has been built to loop life-cycles and build in the exact same way.
Gravity fields are always the same polarity, why do you think objects are always attracted together?

Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:31 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 22:35
Hmm... I see you haven't managed to answer any of our questions.

1. Please show that correlation in the Periodic Table.
2. Please find a link to that equation

This is the equation for gravitational field strength:



But wait! They didn't times by electron!

This is the main part you missed:

Quote: "Please provide links for you outlandish claims that Gravity is an electrical magnetic field."


Links links links
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:37
Quote: "I don't understand what you are talking about here. If you have a masters at Derby perhaps you can use standard scientific terminology."


i would if i could remember the terminology
understand the workings, big words i forget all the time...

Quote: "You can't do that, there isn't enough room for all the fibers. You would need fibers going from every place light hits the object to where the light should be.
I doubt it's possible to make a lump of fiber optic cables that do that, let alone when they are surrounding an object."


well no obviously you'd need to be able to do it on a nano level for it to be unnoticeable; but that wasn't the point, the point was possibility... and even then it would screw up when the jacket is turne, i can think up numerous reasons why it wouldn't work but still proves that what Chris is trying to say is poop.

... i'll try to remember the terms, but i'm pretty sure that the term is Ion which covers all non-standard particles;
ie. Ions in an Ion Engine = Stripped of Electrical Charge, Ions in a Static Charge = Added Electrons, etc...

Quote: "What about materials that can hold static electricity but aren't on the periodic table? Like polystyrene?"


That is a Material, not an element. I think you'll find it contains a majority of an element which does own alot of those properties; but considering the rest of it is just Benin Material = it stores up electricty rather than conducting it.

Quote: ""* Electron"?
That well known measurement or constant - electron.
How do you times something by electron?

Please don't make up stuff. Please provide a link to a site with that equation on."


Read your damn periodic table, it gives all the information you need.
If i were to hunt down the equasions and research again it would take ages particularly as i don't exactly have a school library at my disposal here or notes to refer to.

Why don't YOU do the research if you wanna find out so bad.

Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:50 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 22:50
I have tried and I can't find anything that says anything about electrons having anything to do with gravity.

Please demonstrate that correlation in the periodic table or at least explain it.

Let me just recap:
You are saying that gravity is caused by electricity.
I am saying that it is not.

I'm talking crap?

I have provided facts and links to back up everything I have said.

Find one thing I have said that is wrong.

You MUST be able to find your equation for gravitational field stregth ( the one where you times by electron ), because it is one of the most important equations in physics.

I have done the research and I have found that you are making stuff up

No one here believes anything you are saying. You have to provide links else you will make a fool of yourself.

You are destroying what little credibility you have.

PLEEEEEEEEASE :

1. Describe that correlation in the periodic table
2. Show me something that says gravity is caused by electrons
the_winch
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:55 Edited at: 16th Jun 2004 23:01
Quote: "in the simplest of terms; to understand how the electrons stay within thier orbits is simple.
Speed = Energy, Energy = Larger Effect Field, so basically it counter balances it's speed with the energy output."


Funny how you managed to reduce a complicated subject that still isn't understood fully into a couple of sentances that don't really mean anything.

Quote: "Thus
Positive - (Negative*Speed) = 0 ... this is always a fact."


What does Postive represent?
What does Negative represent?

Quote: "And the SubAtomic level works in 3 Levels;
-1 / 0 / +1"


???

Quote: "Most of the time you will find that Atoms works using the Basics...

Electron = -1 + -1
Positron = +1 + +1
Neutron = +1 + -1"


You know what positrons are right? They aren't going to be found in the same atom as electrons for obvious reasons. This link might help.

Quote: "1. Please show that correlation in the Periodic Table."


Yes please do.

can i scream
David T
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 22:58
Quote: "Quote: "And the SubAtomic level works in 3 Levels;
-1 / 0 / +1"

???"



Well, 3 charges perhaps?

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 23:01
Yeah but what the hell does that mean? It's like saying everything is either dead or alive.

They're the only posibilities.

Positrons are antimatter, right?
Chris K
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Posted: 16th Jun 2004 23:49
Wait a minute - what elements can't store static electricity?

OK. Raven, answer this: are you saying that gravity is caused by electricity/electrons?

I'm hoping that this amazing correlation is going to spell out a message from the beyond. Although, I don't know how impressive it can be seeing as it has a huge blob containing all metals.
Chris K
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Posted: 17th Jun 2004 22:35
Good ol' Raven.

ARGUE ARGUE ARGUE ARGUE ARGUE disappear

repeat ad infinitum

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