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3 Dimensional Chat / WIP trooper

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Malkavian
23
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Joined: 17th Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 18th Jun 2004 04:18
Hi,
Im currently working for on a trooper in need of crit before the skinning process starts. Its currently 2171 poly's but count is of less matter as it will become a sprite. (Still want to keep it low/mid-poly for further use)
Comments, ideas, crit welcome.
Thanks

The little monster that lives in the helm wants your cookie=?

Emotions..intressting..to many or to few?
Pandora will suffer without them and Daniel will die because of them.
shado
22
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Joined: 15th Jun 2004
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Posted: 18th Jun 2004 07:48
i want it.
something about the torso dosent seem quite right but it sill looks nice.
Robin
23
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 18th Jun 2004 16:57 Edited at: 18th Jun 2004 16:57
Yeah i think his torso's a bit small in height - His legs seem a bit to long for the body, but other than that, very nice!
What program did you make it in? Maya?

http://www.thegameszone.tk | [email protected]
Glog
22
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Joined: 1st Jun 2004
Location: between compiling and debugging process
Posted: 18th Jun 2004 17:54
your model is quite nice , but as i see it ,
you'll maybe have some problems to skin him because you made the legs with triangles , maybe it won't move properly
if you want all the vertexs to rotate properly onto two bones joints , you need the vertexs to underline that angle , otherwise , the rotations are weird when the bone rotates too much.


how will you export this models and his animation in db ? could you explain it to me very fastly ?


sorry to ask you that , but i've got 3dsmax to and i can't export skinned animatios with panda x exporter , altrough it seems to be possible
i'm on it since 2 weeks and i can't make it work !!
so could you give me all the params you use in panda x exporter if you use it , or explain to me how you can get all the stuff , including animations exported in db ??
please ! i REALLY need help !
[email protected]

A program is sensed to be a conventional mean to give orders to a computer and not being obscure,weird,and full of traps ,that is closer to magic stuff (Dave Small).
thief
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Posted: 18th Jun 2004 23:28
Its looks like he made it in 3ds max robin

thief
Malkavian
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 17th Sep 2002
Location: Sweden
Posted: 19th Jun 2004 03:56
Hola,
Thanks for comments! ive made some small changes. It looks much better. More crit more then welcome.


-Robin; Yeah i use 3ds max.

-Glog; The weighting and animation will be fine. Perhaps you are right about weird results when rotating a bone at extreme angles? Havent had any problems on similar meshes before.

I export it to .x using Microsofts DirectX exporter; [href]http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=ec97a1fb-4305-4758-b7c4-5a12b3fe8ec2&DisplayLang=en [/href]

Which should work with 3ds max 3-6 however you need to complie it yourself using 3ds max SDK and visual studio (or similar).
There is one reason i use this instead of panda exporter.
Panda exporter (last time i looked) dont export Character Studio(CS) Physique/Biped. Physique is much like the standard skining modifier when it comes to skin-to-bone attachment and deformation. Biped is a ready bone structure for bipeds (can be alterd for other creatures tho, very handy! I cant really give any for or against to use, its more what you prefer. When you look at the complete CS package i see many reasons to use it.
Anyway i NEVER use standard bones and skin modifiers when animating inside 3ds max. If you use 3ds max standard bones and skin, use panda (unsure of settings for export, sorry).
If you use CS biped/physique to animate you have no other choice then to use the DirextX exporter from microsoft (Can help you complie one for your version of 3ds max and CS).

Specs on the exporter (xskinexp);

usage
-----

1) Setup your scene.
2) Choose export (or export selected) from the File menu.
3) Select a filename through the standard dialog that should pop up.
4) Select an X-file data format to use (text, binary or binary+compressed).
5) Hit Go!

Notes
-----

1) The exporter currently only exports base objects (i.e. modifier stacks are ignored). So any modifiers that you apply must be collapsed before export. You can save your data to a MAX file before collapsing if you want to get your modifier stacks back. The exception is the physique modifiers - see (2).

2) If you use physique, before export make sure that no modifiers exist below either one in the stack. Any modifiers above or below physique are just ignored.

3) Currently only the diffuse texture is exported (absolute file path), and at most one set of texture coordinates (applied with a UVW modifier for example, and then collapsed before export).

4) Material properties exported are:
- diffuse color
- transparency
- power (shininess strengh in 3DS... correct?)
- specular color
- emissive color
- texture file name (diffuse texture absolute file path).

5) Materials may be per-mesh or per-face (multi-material).

6) Faces are always triangles.

7) The export process guarantees that all frames (bones/nodes, whatever you want to call them) in the scene hierarchy get unique string names. If a node has a name in 3DS, the exported name will use that, and append numbers if necessary to guarantee uniqueness. 3DS node names also have to be "censored" to support the character restrictions for strings in the x-file format.

8) See the Notes on New Templates to learn about extensions added to the X-File format...

9) The definitions of any new templates are always listed at the beginning of exported x-files.

Notes on New Templates
----------------------
The c header file appended to the bottom of this readme may be used to help read the custom templates added to the x-file format.

For now, these templates are:

1) VertexDuplicationIndices

template VertexDuplicationIndices
{
<B8D65549-D7C9-4995-89CF-53A9A8B031E3>
DWORD nIndices;
DWORD nOriginalVertices;
array DWORD indices[nIndices];
}

This template is instantiated on a per-mesh basis, holding information about which vertices in the mesh are duplicates of each other. Duplicates result when a vertex sits on a smoothing group or material boundary. The purpose of this template is to allow the loader to determine which vertices exhibiting different peripheral parameters are actually the same vertex in the model. Certain applications (mesh simplification for example) can make use of this information.

Fields:

DWORD nIndices -- the number of indices in the array indices[nIndices]. This will be equal to the number of vertices in the current mesh.

DWORD nOriginalVertices -- the number of vertices in the mesh before any duplication occured.

array DWORD indices[nIndices] -- indices[n] holds the vertex index that vertex[n] in the vertex array for the mesh would have had if no duplication had occured. So any indices in this array that are the same indicate duplicated vertices.

2) XSkinMeshHeader

template XSkinMeshHeader
{
<3CF169CE-FF7C-44ab-93C0-F78F62D172E2>
WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerVertex;
WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerFace;
WORD nBones;
}

This template is instantiated on a per-mesh basis only in meshes that contain exported skinning information. The purpose of this template is to provide information about the nature of the skinning information that was exported.

Fields:
WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerVertex -- the maximum number of transfoms that affect a vertex in the mesh.

WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerFace -- the maximum number of unique transforms that affect the three vertices of any face.

WORD nBones -- the number of bones that affect vertices in this mesh

3) SkinWeights

template SkinWeights
{
<6F0D123B-BAD2-4167-A0D0-80224F25FABB>
STRING transformNodeName;
DWORD nWeights;
array DWORD vertexIndices[nWeights];
array float weights[nWeights];
Matrix4x4 matrixOffset;
}

This template is instantiated on a per-mesh basis. Within a mesh, a sequence of n instances of this template will show up, where n is the number of bones (X file frames) which influence the vertices in the mesh. Each instance of the template basically defines the influence of a particular bone on the mesh. There is a list of vertex indices, and a corresponding list of weights.

Fields:
STRING transformNodeName -- the name of the bone whose influence we are defining.

DWORD nWeights -- the number of vertices affected by this bone

array DWORD vertexIndices[nWeights] -- the vertices influenced by this bone

array float weights[nWeights] -- the weights for each of the vertices influenced by this bone

Matrix4x4 matrixOffset -- this matrix transforms the mesh vertices to the space of the bone. This when cancatenated to the bone's transform will give the world space coordinates of the mesh as affected by the bone.

4) Addition to AnimationKey

template AnimationKey
{
<10DD46A8-775B-11cf-8F52-0040333594A3>
DWORD keyType;
DWORD nKeys;
array keys TimedFloatKeys[nKeys];
}

This is an existing template in .X files. This has been extended to support a new key type of 4 which is a matrix key (in addition to position, rotation and scale). For example:

AnimationKey
{
4;
2;
0;16; 0.999841,-0.017505, 0.003500,0.000000,
0.017664, 0.998492,-0.051979,0.000000,
-0.002585, 0.052033, 0.998642,0.000000,
28.181364,-0.033845, 0.001760,1.000000;;,
160;16; 0.999854,-0.016764, 0.003258,0.000000,
0.016922, 0.998239,-0.056864,0.000000,
-0.002299, 0.056911, 0.998377,0.000000,
28.181427,-0.033822, 0.001927,1.000000;;,
}
This was added to export animations from Biped plug-in. Biped does not give access to position / rotation / scale components of the animation. These matrices need to be decomposed by the application to get interpolable components.

Useful Header
-------------
The rest of this readme contains a useful header file, used in the export process, and useful for your loader, if you use the X File loading API in the DirectX SDK.

//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
// File: XSkinExpTemplates.h
//
// Desc: Custom templates used for skin export format.
//
// Copyright (C) 1998-1999 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
#ifndef __XSKINEXPTEMPLATES_H__
#define __XSKINEXPTEMPLATES_H__

// {3CF169CE-FF7C-44ab-93C0-F78F62D172E2}
DEFINE_GUID(DXFILEOBJ_XSkinMeshHeader,
0x3cf169ce, 0xff7c, 0x44ab, 0x93, 0xc0, 0xf7, 0x8f, 0x62, 0xd1, 0x72, 0xe2);

// {B8D65549-D7C9-4995-89CF-53A9A8B031E3}
DEFINE_GUID(DXFILEOBJ_VertexDuplicationIndices,
0xb8d65549, 0xd7c9, 0x4995, 0x89, 0xcf, 0x53, 0xa9, 0xa8, 0xb0, 0x31, 0xe3);

// {6F0D123B-BAD2-4167-A0D0-80224F25FABB}
DEFINE_GUID(DXFILEOBJ_SkinWeights,
0x6f0d123b, 0xbad2, 0x4167, 0xa0, 0xd0, 0x80, 0x22, 0x4f, 0x25, 0xfa, 0xbb);

#define XSKINEXP_TEMPLATES \
"xof 0303txt 0032\
template XSkinMeshHeader \
{ \
<3CF169CE-FF7C-44ab-93C0-F78F62D172E2> \
WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerVertex; \
WORD nMaxSkinWeightsPerFace; \
} \
template VertexDuplicationIndices \
{ \
<B8D65549-D7C9-4995-89CF-53A9A8B031E3> \
DWORD nIndices; \
DWORD nOriginalVertices; \
array DWORD indices[nIndices]; \
} \
template SkinWeights \
{ \
<6F0D123B-BAD2-4167-A0D0-80224F25FABB> \
STRING transformNodeName;\
DWORD nWeights; \
array DWORD vertexIndices[nWeights]; \
array float weights[nWeights]; \
Matrix4x4 matrixOffset; \
} \
#endif //__XSKINEXPTEMPLATES_H__

Hope you got any wiser

Emotions..intressting..to many or to few?
Pandora will suffer without them and Daniel will die because of them.
Glog
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Jun 2004
Location: between compiling and debugging process
Posted: 19th Jun 2004 20:19
i'd like to thank you very much to have gived me that help !

it was very hard to get some responses even over the net, and you explained me all that i misunderstood!

about biped: totaly agree with you , i done several anims and models with it , and its really good , even for posing .
even so , i also "build" my own biped styled structure with some IKsolvers and even some scripts to make them walk, whitch as i see it , is fare more usable when you want to get quadrupeds,spiders, or wathever without spending hours to rigg it do you have a site where you show your works ?

also,i'm utterly sorry to ask you that , but if the needed files to compile the plugin are not too big ,could you send me those files ? or even the dle plugin file ( butdunno if it will work on max 5.1)
i ask you that because i just have a version without the sdk and its really hard to find those files around the net...
if you don't want to , it doesn't matter , ill manage to find them

anyway thanks to have taken the time to explain me so much !
i just could'nt understand exporting in realtime stuff ...
[email protected]

A program is sensed to be a conventional mean to give orders to a computer and not being obscure,weird,and full of traps ,that is closer to magic stuff (Dave Small).

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