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Geek Culture / 3D Starmap in DBP, VB 6, or VB.NET 2003?

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zircher
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 20:02
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I've been asked to create a 3D starmap program starting next month and I'm at a cross roads as to which language to use. The starmap program will be a support utility for a new pen and paper RPG coming out next month. As such, I image that my target audience will not be a technically sophisticated bunch.

While DBP would be the easiest language to create a 3D star map in, its compatibility and stability is questionable within the short term. That might change by next week. Also, falling back to version 4.1 or so might be a viable option for lower tech stability.

I'm well versed in VB since I use that at work. But, VB is not the most elegant answer for presenting 3D graphics. On the bright side, it is easy to deploy and runs on a wide variety of machines.

The third choice is VB.NET. While I have not used it, this would be a good learning project for me to cut my teeth on. However, I am a bit concerned about the .net framework requirement. What is it, about 11 megs of additional downloads for those that do not have it?

I've heard about DirextX for VB and managed code for VB.NET, but I'd be much happier with a DirectX wrapper like WildTangent or silimar technology for OpenGL. Since this is (for now) a free but commercial program, I'd need to watch my budget and licenses.

Any suggestions?
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David T
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 20:13
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3d? sounds like Db here. Unless you're really fluent with 3d and directx with VB.

Quote: "On the bright side, it is easy to deploy and runs on a wide variety of machines"


VB requires runtime; DB doesn't

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 20:47
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Aye, I agree DB would be easiest and most portable. Theres a 3d engine for VB called 3dState I think...

http://www.3dstate.com/

Dunno if its any use to you...

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IanM
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 20:48
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Quote: "VB requires runtime; DB doesn't"


So what is DirectX supposed to be then?

Personally, I'd go with DB or DBPro, unless you already have a good starting point with one of the other languages.

Just put the exe on a CD, with a copy of the DX9.0b runtime and a good selection of drivers and you'll be good to go

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M00NSHiNE
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 21:02
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Im struggling to tell from its poor site if its still supported...

Seems its only free for non-commercial use...

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CattleRustler
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 22:05
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if you use vb/vb.net you can use IanM's DBP interface, or DX9SDK(.NET & COM), or even Truevision3D (COM)

or dbp itself.

you have many options


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David T
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 22:24
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Quote: "So what is DirectX supposed to be then? "


A more common runtime I know technically DX and vb6 runtimes are the same but DX is so common nowadays...

Two strings walk into a bar. I'll have a pint says the first$%ASLDJ09920D"$"$D. Excuse my friend says the second, he isn't null terminated.
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zircher
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2004 22:48
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Thanks all for the feedback.

I have done some homework, 3dState and TrueVision3d are good suggestions, but not within the budget/constraints for this project.

I'm really concerned that DBP 5+ will be a tech support nightmare. Between DirectX 9.0b and driver updates, I've seen a lot of headaches. VB/VB.NET seem like they would be more stable, but learning bare metal DirectX in the next two weeks seems like a challenge. (That's where finding a game API or wrapper would come in handy.)

Right now, the leader of the pack seems to be DBP 4.1. I think that's the last DirectX 8 compatible version. That would jive with the low tech machines I expect to encounter. I'd miss out on the wonderful pick object and pick vector commands. But, I believe there are work arounds that I can use.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 01:56
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DBClassic is the best bet. DX7.

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SonicBoom
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 03:46
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Quote: "VB/VB.NET seem like they would be more stable, but learning bare metal DirectX in the next two weeks seems like a challenge"


Hardly - If its the latter (VB.NET or indeed the more likely candiatate, C#) Managed DirectX takes the whole C++ / COM thang out of the equation and leaves you with a consistent API with which start building your own stuff. Its nowhere near bear metal for sure!

Tom Miller released a book last year which you could use to easily put down the basics of a game engine in the sortof time period you're looking at. That way you'd get to learn a .NET language, learn DirectX and more game coding, all in one.

Not trying to convince you but don't assume its hard when it aint.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 24th Jun 2004 04:35 Edited at: 24th Jun 2004 04:36
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but all the examples are C#, which to a degree is decipherable, but adds a load of overhead to the already daunting task which is DX


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SonicBoom
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 04:03
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CR, no mate, exactly half the examples on the Tom's accompanying CD are in fact written in VB.NET!

And this is what makes it accessible, not daunting. Suddenly all the types and weird DX parameters are available via intellisense, as long as you know what Type it is you can at least guess at the parameter. Almost instinctive

However, I would agree with you that most tutorials you might find on the web would be C#, and the SDK samples for VB.NET are actually gonna be dropped in August with the new SDK version in favour of more and better C# ones.

Too bad if you ask me.

But then I did say that C# would probably be the more likely candidate for the 3D starmap excercise, so long as the cost of VS2003 was not too great and the whole framework deployment issue was covered.
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CattleRustler
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 04:55
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Thats good to know. I remember when I first saw the interview with Tom he said the were working on a second edition of his book to include vb.net examples. I have been hobbling around using the Object browser and some of the demos trying to figure stuff out but its a little insane. I will look into his book.

If DBP improves in all areas (as it seems they are doing now) there would really be no reason for me (at the moment) to take on DX in VB.NET other than the core language being light years more advanced and in OOP. For now I will stick with DBP - plus I am having fun coming up with vb.net dlls for DBP with Exeat. Currently he is working on trying to implement vb.net dlls (as exported functions) into dbp the same as you would a c++ dll. That is still in progress.

Thanks for the info


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zircher
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Posted: 25th Jun 2004 20:32
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Interesting info. Sounds like I should grab the current DirectX SDK before they purge the VB examples.
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