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3 Dimensional Chat / New Render Tests

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 16:44
Since i've used Max i've not really had a chance to sort out CG Style things much, so i've got alot of playing to do over the next few days mostly material and lightwise - perhaps a particle animation or two

for now just gonna show two test renders, i know they have problems anyone who wants to smartass and make comments about the problems then just leave cause i would like REAL help.
Right now i'm looking into Raytrace materials and lighting, in particular recreating artificial lighting with merky metal objects and such. I'm using Max over Maya here because I really should know the program alot better than just enough to do work, and as I have a need for CG nows the time i need to figure out materials.

I do have Brazil for this and not one of the Beta's but i'd like to understand in Standard Max ... I'm currently on my Laptop with a GeForce2 Go! and a Celeron 600mhz, so this isn't exactly the best rendering option so tests take ALOT of time to see results.




(if the images don't work you'll have to visit my forums http://members.lycos.co.uk/timesaga/phpBB2)
Anata aru kowagaru no watashi! http://members.lycos.co.uk/timesaga/darkbasic/rvtoken2.jpg[/img]
pathfinder
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 22:16
lol no ones commented, Well apart from its looking great so far I do have a comment for you on texture. This is sort of advanced user stuff, and I know you can do it in lightwave. You may have even tried it out. Sure theres a similar material setting in the progs you use. Its called light incedence. The idea is reflective surfaces reflect better as its angle changes in relation to the camera. So on curved metal/glass in some areas reflection is strong, in others its non existant. Its a bit hard to tell if your using it or not, but well its a comment

Well done Vegeta.

rapscaLLion
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 22:51
It looks really nice, but shouldn't there be at least a bit of distortion on the curves? I think thats what pathfinder is asking tho

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 23:09
well to me they're not acceptable ... been running tests all day just wanted to show what i've come up with and kinda need help with it.

Basically what peeve's me off about all these programs is they all operate so differently texture wise.
Even more so as Gmax 1.1 actually had one of the better material editors i've seen in the whole Max series ... bloody changed that to the one in 4 which is madeness.

really i know how i want everything, and i know what its called - but Discreet in thier infinite wisedom decided to name alot of things differently and alot of what i know means something different.

i've been trying to play with the causalities which is how defined and the effect of refracting upon a metal (kinda like what the front bumper shows on the first pic)
not alot of luck, but ho hum earli days i suppose.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
actarus
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 23:24
Woah,I don't really know the car well but that's great and very realistic on top of that.

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
John H
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Posted: 16th Dec 2002 23:36
Its a beama! (BMW) nice

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indi
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 05:00
its a little dark but looks impressive so far

ChronicFear
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 06:25
Vegeta, that is F*ing sweet. But, I got a question. How do you texture objects so that they have the texture in DBpro. Is there a code I need or what? I really like it though, thats like kickass

Your suffering cause of me its divine
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Disco Stu
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 11:55
Now that wouldn't be your number plate on the car would it?
Awesome stuff, like the little blue flare on the front lights.
Sina.

"Maybe if you ain't so good, I ain't so bad."--Tony Manero to Stephanie (Karen Lynn Gorney)
Van B
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 16:58
Hmmm, I have a sorta similar problem with Max renders too, I can never get decent lighting and my renders all end up really dark. Maybe a lamp post beside the car would improve the lighting a bit, cos it could just be that you don't have enough light and Max is making do, so maybe a lampost would give it a nice strong light source.

This is why I use Rhino to render my stuff, lights are really easy to setup and move about, and you don't need to spend ages setting up renders.

Car's look great though.


Van-B
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Dec 2002 19:18
lol ... well the car isn't the point, and numberplate isn't mine. It's a german plate from the BMW AG site

yeah i've playing with lights alot at the moment, i really want to get daylight done ... its annoying because until trueSpace, Maya, Lightwave the daylight lights are positional, but actually fixxed position - kinda stupid if you ask me.

I should have a few more tests to show a little later but i wanna get Rose's characters out of the way first so she has something to play with

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Simple
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2002 01:52
Just out of curiosity … and this is nothing to do with your render tests >> but WHO made the CAR ??

Cos it wasn’t you was it


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ChronicFear
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2002 09:21
Raven Vegeta. When you finish that and save it. Could you load it directly into Dbpro and it would still have texture?

Your suffering cause of me its divine
-Korn-
GavinO
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2002 20:20
MAX materials are a bit complicated to explain in one message. If you want nice car-paint shading on that car, use Standard material witj shading set to Metal. Then go down to Maps, and add a reflection map of raytrace. The color gets set in the color chip under the Metal Shader Parameters, or whatever the second rollout is called. As for lights, Metal requires a bunch to look right. The Raytrace also needs a scene around it, like a garage. Look at the Jaguar samples, they have that big garage model around them, so there is something to reflect. If that is too much of a pain, just make the Reflection map a bitmap of a sky or something. To control the amount of light reflected, use the Specular Level control. The Glossiness is how focused the reflection is. Play with it until the smaple sphere looks right.

More about that lighting thing: You want to have lights illuminating from all sides, and then the one that is on the other side from the camera has shadows turned on. For more than 2-3 lights, start reducing their multipliers in the Modify panel to avoid washout.

As for loading to DBPro, it will have the color and possibly the image maps of the license plate and stuff, but not the reflection or raytrace maps. You have to write a shader program for those. Have fun learning a specialized ASM

QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2002 21:07
put a bump map on the tires man!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 02:55
aww simple... sorry to disappoint, but this is all mine and was made up around 2hours prior to render tests.
i did need something good and quite specific for the rendering task required. Why you think i took it from some site like 3D Cafe or TurboSquid?

weighs in at a mere 22k polys too, maybe one day when you learn to model perhaps you can create similar work

As for the render tests i've a few more to show soon, but basic i've found that if i add a Reflection|Refraction Shader with a sky box based from a second scene which has the terrain mapped out (this is to reduce times) then i post-production layer the two it gives a good effect (^_^)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Simple
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 03:49
-*weighs in at a mere 22k polys too, maybe one day when you learn to model perhaps you can create similar work-*

Like your human model attempts ya mean !! A car is not exactly hard to model now is it. But we all already know that you can't skin a model... and I still have my doubts about you making this one, cos I've seen your modeling before, remember ?

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QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 18:08
I dunno simple that looks pretty tricky to do
Yskonyn
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 18:43
It's very nice, however to comment on the 'simple' issue; the model itself is nothing advanced and the rims are just a texture, but the lighting and reflective effects make it pretty slick!

Yskonyn -
"It's better to wish down here you were up, then to wish up there you were down."
"The ONLY time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire."
Yskonyn
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 18:44
and with the rims, I mean the rims and all other detailed stuff like the grille, front bumper, lights etc.

Yskonyn -
"It's better to wish down here you were up, then to wish up there you were down."
"The ONLY time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire."
GavinO
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 20:04
If you look close, you can tell that there are no actual deams around anything, but for game graphics, the models don't need any more detail than what is here. Kinda like how monster truck bodies look like actual trucks until something touches then a a chunk of fiberglass snaps off

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 22:45
yup alot of polygons are saved with textures which were carefully taken from the BMW sites
they position thier cars so well and love close up shots, even with technical veiws which helps enourmously.

Gotta say you keep repeating yourself, surely an "expert" suchas yourself can tell me the obvious fault with this vehicle too?
If not then its a shame... and i think if you can't then you should just keep quiet for once in your life

for one if you notice, i forgot to mark the trim a colour, two i've forgotten to texture the side lights, three i've not actually done a great job with the shading groups, three i've render'd the car in such a way as to show the internals are not complete (my bad) and really one i don't intend to repeat.

Alot of you have noted, yeah the wheels although relatively hi polygon - are still textured alloys, and tread. I'm gonna work on an Audi i think (A2 possibly, maybe even the TT) and make it a proper CG version vehicle, get rid of alot of mistakes this one had. Build a true internal... do the runlines along the body work
Have something to be proud of, might even spend a good 10-12hours developing it

Thanks for the comments thou guys, i've got a few more renders i might show - since i've been down here been trying to take a good picture to like try a post-fusion test ... but i'm not sure to the results, they still look FAR to fake for me to want to reveal.
i really need some more skill in the post production area, as i've only had a fleeting 4months trying it about a year ago in Maya

i think i'm finally getting to grips with the Max materials, and trying to make as little shaders as possible for desired effects.
post something up soon perhaps... not sure i've still a few game models to finish up and email.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Yskonyn
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 16:05
Like I said, bad f*cking job! Heh, I told you you should have been listening to me!

Cheers... I'd wish I did make something like that, my friend!

Yskonyn -
"It's better to wish down here you were up, then to wish up there you were down."
"The ONLY time you have too much fuel on board is when you are on fire."
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jan 2003 10:08
tried another render test... this is actually from like a week ago but i didn't bother uploading.



god i swear the material have been doing my head in slowly for the past week

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Soyuz
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Posted: 1st Jan 2003 12:18
Very nice job. Why are side windows different translucency from windscreen?

You gonna make a low poly model that could be used in a game? How about - "BMW Driver" - your mission is to be as ignorant of other road users as possible but that's ok cos you got a BMW and hence you own the roads.

Do a Merc model next - far superior car.

QuothTheRaven
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Posted: 1st Jan 2003 21:14
the windows are the same transluscency...look at a window then look at it from an angle.

Put a bump map on the tires! And the chrome face!

Are there doors on the back side of the car? It just looks like a hole in the siding. Yeah, half the car is missing! The handle and door divider is there, but no door! are you crazy? Did you vomit on the back face rendering? The car looks great...but it has no back!?

And there's something wrong with the shadow...you can see the handle and the wheel, but it's like the door isnt even used in the shadows calculations.

And the windhsield wipers dont look like they have any connectors to the hood, normally the ends are under the hood, and their geomerty is more complex.

And is it just me or is the trunk super tiny?
Soyuz
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 02:49
Changing the angle you look at a window doesn't make it go from translucent to white! Besides, the camera is looking diagonally on to the car, so the camera angle to both the wind screen and side windows is pretty similar.

Skyone
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 05:13
*whistles* whatever...

Code of the Week: Moving an object back.
If Downkey()=1 then Move object x,-10
x=Object Number
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 08:32
well firstly most regards made, gonna basically ignore because this is a material test for the reflection|refractions with causalities ... so really alot of things don't matter.

But on the part of the door, i'm gussing you're meaning on the side and near the rear of the car.
And to be honest i haven't a clue what the hell caused that - because it was all oki until i changed the material of it. As i never did the internals they're literally just shaded boxes and torus i didn't bother with the backfaces either because i'd setup render to do them too... buht i dunno should've render'd no different.

guess it can all wait a little whilst until i make up the other vehicles that i wanna test, especially the shader plane - so many tests so little time, especially on such a useless pile o' crap as this lol

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 18:11
"well firstly most regards made, gonna basically ignore because this is a material test for the reflection|refractions with causalities ... so really alot of things don't matter."

He will ignore because u all stupid and don't know what u saying... He's the professional here. But if u make a model be ready to get his pee on ur head
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 18:40
:: sighs ::
you know you are becomming an extreme annoyance Alucard - now simple i can understand, cause of the history ... but you have no rights at all here.

unless you have something constructive to say please steer clear of these posts.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Simple
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 19:54
LOL

I'm staying out of this one !! cos I'm in peace mode at the moment.

( >> But on the part of the door, i'm gussing you're meaning on the side and near the rear of the car.
And to be honest i haven't a clue what the hell caused that - because it was all oki until i changed the material of it. << )

But I do know what the hell caused that

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 10:40
then explain because the force double 2-sided polygons is on, the double sided render on the object is on ... all i did was change something in the material and it wasn't even on the top level it was the 2nd Reflection level.



Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Simple
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 12:58
Tut, tut, tut ...... thought it would be obvious for someone like you. Looks like it's not though !!

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Simple
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 13:03
My Kingdom for an edit button !!

Anyways...... to quote something you wrote in someone elses post only the other day >>>

-* if you're unsure on howto achieve this, then consult your help file. -*

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 30gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom - CDRW - Firewire - ATI TV card - All linked to another PC with higher spec
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 13:08
... i don't think you understand, the thing renders however when you go into the reflection shader it decides that it isn't there and as the reflections and refractions are calculated first this causes all the rest of the rendering order to take it that the backfaces are not there.

you follow so far?
so you setup in the render pipeline for the reflections to be done last an it will render... however only the door effects render and the door does not still because it is trying to relfect and refract upon nothing because they can't see it there. That CAN be over come but setting up an additional light source because for some reason the artificial sources are oki but the sunlight system works on a different Raytrace setup.
So i'd have to include and exclude within the lighting, but again if i do this then the actual lighting for the cars entire body will be screwed up... so unless i want to sit there and actually create the backfaces physically which is too much bother due to Max's bugs i'll have to put up with it

but of course you already knew this right simple?

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Soyuz
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 13:11
Now now children, less bickering! I'd quite like to know why this is happening too if you could enlighten us. Oh and have you seen the size of the Max help file? Me thinks Raven could spend weeks trying to solve the issue if he went purely by that!

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Jan 2003 21:59
lmao... trust me the help doesn't actually go as deep as shader problems - problem with a product with a million options is that you have to try to cover them all within a limited writing time.

I kinda have come to believe that is most likely a bug within the rendering properties of the material - either due to the Reflection|Refraction or due to the fact of it being a second layer shader. Probably need to run more tests but i've promised alot of work for Rose over the next week - so if anyone else wishes to test then lemme know i'll send the Max4 .max file

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Jan 2003 03:18
Ok so I'm entering this late and all points I would have made have been - but nice job Vegeta - thats approaching Gran Turismo standards lol j/k its damn sweet. Weird missing door thing tho :S

Personally I've never attempted a car so hi-poly I only model for games, but top draw anyways

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Jan 2003 15:44
the car itself isn't too grand unfortunatly... was just a simple rush job and could have done alot better if i'd taken some time over it

infact the majority of it was just developed from splines and when i cross-sectioned and surfaced didn't even turn down the tesselation.
some recent tests have lead me to know alot more about Max and Brazil's rendering engines - hopefully if i can ever figure out the Animation Manager (god i wish it was as simple as trueSpace and Maya's drag'n'drop affair) perhaps i can finally get my lip syncing complete
been and insane 2weeks learning so many of the CG aspects of Max ... but certainly interesting.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Soyuz
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Posted: 4th Jan 2003 20:45
Stop being so damn modest!

And if you figure out lip sync can you write a tutorial on it?

Megaman X
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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 01:00
lol

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--Ryu

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