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Geek Culture / SiS 6326 8Mb or TNT Riva 32Mb?

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DARKGuy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 09:52
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yeah well I'm just about to buy a card like that (and I'm gonna pay it in two parts because things here are EXPENSIVE) so I was gonna ask these type of things:

1. Where I can find info about the card?
2. It does work with DB and DBPro?
3. Supports Direct3D?
4. Lighting effects and stencil buffers?
5. What's AGP? XD (no, really...)
6. It is a good card or not?

Thanks ^_^


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 10:11
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if i had to choose, it'd be the TNT Riva hands down... that said for DBPro i'd suggest moving to a country where cards are cheaper.
Those cards here would be like £5-10, you should be able to get something far better right now.

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DARKGuy
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 12:56
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aw well...it's even more expensive to go to a place where cards are cheap


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Van B
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Posted: 1st Jul 2004 17:38
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The TNT is similar to a GF2, a GF2 might be considered absolute minimal spec for DX9 and DBPro, so a TNT should not be considered a permanent solution - I'd suggest you get £50 or so together somehow (I know it can be tough when your younger, maybe talk to your parents) and get an entry level FX5200 or something, an FX5200 can handle shaders nicely and is plenty fast for most peoples needs, I mean I can run Farcry really nicely on mine - it would handle the latest games.


Van-B


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mm0zct
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 02:16
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or look at the ati radeon range, the lower end cards can be found quite cheap, although between those cards it has to be the tnt, i had a tnt2 32 it used to run things a treat in it's time but now it's dated, if you can look into the lower end modern cards such as the radeon 7000 or sbove or gf 5200

http://www.larinar.tk
AMD athlon thoroughbred 2200, 512Mb ram, 40Gb HD, ati saphire radeon 9600 atlantis w/128mb ddr ram, good creative-labs soundcard, cd-rw + dvd drives.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 02:26
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so...FX5200 or try to look at the ATI's?...well I can try to find some cheap prices to see if I can try to save enough to buy one...

BTW well, I don't care too much if it can't handle too much DBPro, mine handles DBPro, though a bit slow...with the TNT I would get more than 13-10 fps at 800x600x16 in my Tank Master game...?


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Represent
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 02:52
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I have never heard of any of these Graphics cards but 8mb or 32MB???!?. Thats small. i would go with the AIT Radeon 9800XT or the x800. Or better then that.. the FireGL 128MB.
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 03:00
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It's esentially a waste of money to buy a 32mb or lower card for anything but a computer you're designing specifically to be low-spec these days. Get a 64mb at least, even if it means saving up for longer; they're five times more useful and you'll actually be able to run most 3d applications and relatively new games. I recommend a cheap Radeon 9000 line card-- reliable, full-featured and quiet-- but if you don't mind a bit of noise and spending forever trying to find drivers that don't conflict with the rest of your hardware, you might get a bit more speed for your dollar with an FX 5200.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 03:24
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Quote: "I recommend a cheap Radeon 9000 line card-- reliable, full-featured and quiet-- but if you don't mind a bit of noise and spending forever trying to find drivers that don't conflict with the rest of your hardware, you might get a bit more speed for your dollar with an FX 5200."


Be quiet, and stop spreading card BS around the forums looking for a fight.

As I said in my original post, try to get yourself something better.
The TNT Riva really has never been a decent card even when released 5years ago was aimed at the budget market.
You can't expect decent framerates with it, as for the 6326.

Had a 1GHz Athlon Processor, and Quake3 ran at close to 4fps (no joke)... You'd be better off hand drawing the games graphics.

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 03:55
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Take your own advice Raven.


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Mentor
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 05:38
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@ Mouse, please stop trying to irritate Raven for no good reason , as for your opinion on video cards, I beg to differ, Nvidia drivers are still known to be more stable than ATI (at least in any overclocker and games enthusiast sites I ever browsed), and they don`t conflict with diddly, unlike when I removed an ATI card and the CDRW suddenly STOPPED crashing after every write operation, I had spent ages trying to get it to work correctly and it was the video card all along, in my admitedly limited experience with two ATI cards, one was faulty and crashed every time you showed it a shader, several times it caused a critical error (driver unloaded while still in use) or just locked the whole machine, the other (older card) conflicted invisibly with a Philips CDRW, on the other hand I have NEVER had a Nvidia card crash (apart from out an of date AGP port BIOS driver I forgot to replace off the MOBO install cd that would have crashed any card), and in my experience they are quite and reliable, I have never suffered any device conflicts with Nvidia cards, and as for noise, you must be thinking of the early fx5900 cards, they where reportedly noisy, they later revised the cooling and they now run as quite as any other card in the same league (IMO), btw, you will find the latest driver releases (and an archive of older drivers) on the Nvidia site, likewise they hide the ATI drivers on the ATI site, cunning how they hide those drivers isn`t it? , this is not a Nvidia fanboy rant BTW, I am just stating what happened to Me, this is just my opinion and experience, and being a gadget freak I guess I spend a bit more than most people on this forum and have installed and used more gear as well, ATI cards may well be excellent, but in my experience, Nvidia where just as capable or better and less trouble, this is just my opinion for people to read and assess, I don`t think I have some right to say this IS or IS NOT the case, just that I have used a fair bit of gear and this is what works for me, plus at the moment people on a low budget will get more bang for the buck from an Nvidia FX5200 (again, in my opinion, and yours too judging by the last line of your post)

Mentor.

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mm0zct
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 05:58 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 05:58
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quake3 running slow on a 1ghz athlon /

i had quake3 running quite smoothly on a 750mhz duron with my tnt2 32mb ram, i had black and white running ok on that setup too

http://www.larinar.tk
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 06:44
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Ok so you guys think I should save up more? I think it's possible...anyway these are my specs

Pentium II 300 Mhz Intel with that black box inside
64 Mb RAM
SiS 6326 8Mb Hardware accelerated up to DX8
Sound Blaster AWE 32 (due to my Tomato(r) card Windows see it as a Sound Blaster 16, though DirectSound uses it as a 32)
Windows 98 SE
1.6 Gb master HD and 6.4 Western Digital Caviar 6400
52x CDROM Drive
Floppy
crappy case
doesn't have any covering, it's literally "nude" at the sides and top
2 crappy speakers

As you all see my PC is built with the best pieces my father can find me, I don't live in a place where things are cheap, for example, that of the 50 Euros....with that a family can live for more than 2 months and there's money still...

I can't get high-end things so I was asking if the card I have now is better than the TNT or am I wrong?

(my mom has a Savage S3 but it's integrated )


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 06:56
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well my FX5200 Ultra has no fan on it... hense it is silent.
So how it could be making more noise than any other card is just a joke; partly why it pisses me off so much to see certain people come one and say stuff like Mouse has.

Most guys i know have either limited card experience and that experience they get they have from websites telling them what the cards can and cannot do, plue what the cards react and don't react like.

well anyways...

Anything is better than an SiS 6326, ANYTHING!
I used to have those exact same specs, for DB Standard when it first came out; all the demos would do like 4-5fps.
I upgraded to a Savage4 Pro the weekend after i finally bought DB, my FPS shot up to 60fps on the demos.



Quote: "i had quake3 running quite smoothly on a 750mhz duron with my tnt2 32mb ram, i had black and white running ok on that setup too"


Well i don't believe Black & White smoothly on that machine, as I had to upgrade to a Geforce2 before it ran smoothly on anything less than a 1.5GHz AthlonXP; but yeah the SiS 6326 are *THAT* bad. They're made as budget solutions for companies and so for games they fall apart.

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 07:08 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 07:10
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Quote: " @ Mouse, please stop trying to irritate Raven for no good reason "


I'm not-- I posted my opinion about a video card! If dissing a video card manufacturer is seen to be a personal attack by anyone, I think it's fairly obvious some people on the forum are getting way too uptight. Raven's almost has a Derek Smart-like ability for tracking down every last place on the internet where someone's said something bad about an nVidia card and creating a multi-page rant at them in a matter of minutes. What I said about the 5200s was not intended as flamebait; indeed, I was just passing on the story a friend of mine who bought and is using a retail FX5200 card had.

Quote: " as for your opinion on video cards, I beg to differ, Nvidia drivers are still known to be more stable than ATI (at least in any overclocker and games enthusiast sites I ever browsed), and they don`t conflict with diddly, unlike when I removed an ATI card and the CDRW suddenly STOPPED crashing after every write operation, I had spent ages trying to get it to work correctly and it was the video card all along"


Some sites prefer ATi drivers, some prefer nVidia. In my personal experience nVidia has conflicted with a lot more than ATI has, and ATi removes clean whereas with nVidia you have to use Detonator Destroyer to get a stable upgrade. Plus, with older nVidia cards, the new drivers-- which should be compatible-- very often aren't... seeing as I'm using one right now, I do know .

Quote: "in my admitedly limited experience with two ATI cards ... plus at the moment people on a low budget will get more bang for the buck from an Nvidia FX5200 (again, in my opinion, and yours too judging by the last line of your post)"


I'm sorry ATi has such a bad track record with you; the four ATi cards (two mobile, two AGP) I've used have all been very reliable and stable. People might be better off with an FX5200, I really don't know for certain; but I do know that you can get a 256mb Radeon 9200 card-- and I have had nothing but good experience with the 9000 line cards-- for about the same money as you can get an 128mb FX5200 card. The FX might have a faster clock speed, but with more RAM and more reliability, the ATi is simply a better buy IMO.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 07:20
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alright so if I would want to get some more FPS in games and DB (DBC or DBPro, I don't care) should I buy it to upgrade my comp a bit?


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 07:23
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Quote: "I'm sorry ATi has such a bad track record with you; the four ATi cards (two mobile, two AGP) I've used have all been very reliable and stable. People might be better off with an FX5200, I really don't know for certain;"


Right there is the exact reason why alot of people should keep quiet about cards. Unless you've had a card you can't comment on it, and you did.

If you want to say how good ATI have been for you, then do so; but don't be going around lieing about other cards you've never touched.

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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 07:49
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You may not trust your friends' word, but I do. Perhaps he was mistaken or perhaps I misunderstood him-- but I doubt it. I'll ask him about it next time he's online. Meanwhile, there are far more civil ways to correct people of errors they make in their posts than launching into long rants.


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DARKGuy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 07:56
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I DIDN'T STARTED THIS POST TO START A FLAMING THREAD, YOU BOTH CALM DOWN...please...


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The Big Babou
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 09:31 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 09:31
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* me grabs beer an popcorn and leans back, waiting to be entertained by raven and mouse*

and darkguy, i had a tnt2/32mb in my first computer, and it ran quake3 very nice. since 2 years or so i have a radeon 8500 and it is getting old now. however it used to run all my games very good, except battlefield 1942 with the 4.2 catalyst drivers. but unlike nvidia, ati releases new drivers every month or so and it was fixed in the cats 4.3. my brothers fx5200 is only half as fast as my 2 year old radeon 8500, because it has only a 64bit memory interface, but not every fx 5200 has.

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 09:39 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2004 09:40
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Sorry DarkGuy. I won't continue .

(But I will recommend you look on NewEgg and Pricewatch for video card deals, as you can get 60% off compared to retail prices!)


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DARKGuy
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2004 13:48
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well the card is just like this:




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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 01:07
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Which card is that again ?

You certainly need a whole new computer if you want to play any new-ish games or make stuff in DBP. That's an ancient system. You could get it cheap by buying the parts, or pay $100s extra and get a pre-made, set up system with XP pre-installed. But either way you really need a new computer for anything relating to game development (unless it's roguelikes) and 3d.


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DARKGuy
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 02:58
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heh yeah Mouse, you're right, but I'm happy as long as I can do some DBC games with more FPS....also, I bought it today, and the owner said I can sell it for more and he'll give me his GeForce MX2 ^_^

BTW whoa...I played GunBound with my new card and I got some really nice FPS....sorta like a Pentium 4 800Mhz or a bit less...wow it's awesome....though I have some problems with my AGP slot but my dad just installed it yesterday at late night and well, at least it worked .

Anyway, ^_^ I know it's old (the BIOS says it's 1998-1999 or sorta like that) but at least I have a better video card than the one my mom have in her pc )


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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 03:20
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As long as your mobo can support it ...

I do admire you for hanging on with a PC like that though I know what it's like struggling along with old hardware... not that old though!


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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 04:23
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As owning both the radeon 9800pro and FX5900xt, lemme tell you that nvidia is waaay more stable and compatible. Stupid radeon wouldn't even work with ati's own demos. As for noise, I dont think you can really here it anyway.

side note: tnt2 ultra was a nice card.(when it didn't melt)

Quote: " nVidia has conflicted with a lot more than ATI has, and ATi removes clean whereas with nVidia you have to use Detonator Destroyer to get a stable upgrade"

Those ATI drivers screwed my system up. It was a pain in the butt to get rid of them. As for nvidia cards, i've never heard of such a problem. I took out a gf3 and stuck in the 5900 and no problems. And to keep the flaming down, these are my personal experiences.

"eureka" - Archimedes
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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 04:51
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Quote: "As for nvidia cards, i've never heard of such a problem. I took out a gf3 and stuck in the 5900 and no problems. And to keep the flaming down, these are my personal experiences."


Then you really, really haven't used nVidia very much, or have had monumentally good luck. With the Detonator line of drivers you had to use a 3rd party utility to get a clean upgrade, major problems could occur when you didn't; they improved the system with the Forceware drivers, but I still had to use Detonator Destroyer to upgrade to Forceware drivers on my TNT2.

These are my personal experiences, but I know they're also shared by the main hardware review sites .


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DARKGuy
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 04:57
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Quote: "As long as your mobo can support it ..."

Hehe, yeah, it detected it wonderfully, at the first installation

[/quote]I do admire you for hanging on with a PC like that though I know what it's like struggling along with old hardware... not that old though![/quote]

hahah thanks well yeah, if you know my pc is old, then don't look at my sister's PC: a Pentium 1 133 Mhz XD and a friend of mine does have a 486 fully working xD...that is OLD!

Yeah well, I've had all types of old hardware I think...heh my first PC was an Epson ABACUS with green monitor xD very old though, but it worked wonderful for me in those times (3 or 4 years ago )

whatever, I'm getting some wonderful FPS in all and even windows is faster O_o


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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:40
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I've used nvidia for several years. I've swapped tnt cards out for geforce back and forth many times. I've never had a single problem. And considering how detonator drivers work for all the geforce cards, i dont see why you'd have to uninstall them to change cards.

"eureka" - Archimedes
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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 05:43 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2004 05:43
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Phaelax-> You don't to change cards, but you do need to uninstall them to update the drivers properly, and video cards are rarely/never compatible with drivers released before the cards were made. I personally had to update 3 times, and I had to learn to use the 3rd party app the hard way when Windows refused to detect the new GeForce 2 because I had installed the new drivers without removing the trace data from the old ones (that the uninstaller doesn't remove). Lots of pain.


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Phaelax
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sry, i just dont see the problem. the only card i had to uninstall was non-nvidia cards to make newer ones work. for my current card, i just run the new drivers update install. unless it uninstalls automatically old drivers before updating, i've never had to.

"eureka" - Archimedes
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Ian T
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 10:32
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Well each to their own ... again, I'm glad you've had such a good track record, not even ATi has been quite that reliable with me, and they make the most reliable hardware I can think of


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Phaelax
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So in conclusion, find which card manufacturer works best for you and stick with it! *cough nvidia *cough

"eureka" - Archimedes
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 20:44 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2004 20:49
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neither. i had to overclock my TNT2 just to support open-GL. and the SiS cant even support the map on campaign mode of Medeival:TW and the 3d doesnt even load at all. Save up a bit and get a Geforce 4, even at a rip-off shop nr my house it only costs £45. definately worth the wait of saving up.


edit: also, allow me to mention the fact that as a result of my TNT2 getting fried i havent had a pc for a month now as the AGP slot melted and some of the motherboard around it too, (b4 u ask, im at the library). The parts for a new pc arrive on the 6th, and have costed a bomb, considering i was planning on getting a new GPU, more RAM and a CPU upgrade, but now i've had to buy more. bluddy graffix card.

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teh game wiz
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 22:24
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after trying a ati card before i would say that nvidia a lot more stable(like my dads card switches to software rendering after 5 mins of game play becuase it stop functioning) however my fx5200 has done me good, it supports dx9(unlike the ati 9000) and its very compatable, never had any problems with it, however if you can save a bit more you could get a fx5700, i got mine for £86 and the clock speeds were all ready increased(as gainward usualy do). this card rocks and although it has a fan its still very queite.

in conclusion, the more you save up, the better the card.
all good things come in time.

http://www.elliot-dickerson.co.uk W0000000000000000000T
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Mentor
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2004 22:29
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you had to overclock a tnt2 to run OpenGL?????, I had a tnt2 and it ran OpenGL just fine with no need for overclocking , if you where just overclocking for the performance hit then thats the risk you take for more speed, thats hardly the fault of the card, if the actual AGP slot overheated then you must have been drawing an impressive amperage, just the card getting hot couldn`t do it since the fiberglass/paxolin substrate (the circuit board) doesn`t conduct heat that well, you should have been able to smell the burning well before any serious damage too, didn`t that tell you something? (basic rule...overclock at your peril )

Mentor.

PC1: P4 hyperthreading 3ghz, 1gig mem, 2x160gig hd`s, Nvidia FX5900 gfx, 6 way surround sound, PC2: AMD 1.2ghz, 512mb ram, FX5200 ultra gfx, stereo 16 bit soundblaster.
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Ian T
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 03:22
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game wiz-> Radeon 9000s support dx9... my TNT2 supports dx9! Do you mean native feature support?

Quote: " (basic rule...overclock at your peril )"


True, but if the card's bad in the first place ...


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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 06:23
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TNT2 is not 100% DBPro compatible. That's why I had to buy a 5200.

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Ian T
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 06:28
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I don't have any real problems with my two TNT2s. Except that one of them has an incredible number of artifacts in all DirectX apps and games , but that's not directly DBP related. How are they not compatible?


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Sync
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 06:59
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Shader commands don't work on them. (I have TNT2 (Asus V3800)).

386SX, 2MB EDO RAM, 512kB VESA video card, 40MB HDD, 5,25 FDD
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Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 07:27
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Naturally, but that's not 'doesn't fully work', that's just the functionality of the video card. It's completely compatible with the core and the language.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 07:31 Edited at: 5th Jul 2004 07:36
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I had a lot of DBPro games crashing. Hmmm now that I think about it, a lot of the crashing stopped with the later updates. I bought the 5200 because peoples timed sync collisions were being ignored by the card. So the collision was being missed out.

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Ian T
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 12:35
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That makes sense. And I won't argue that DBP has some weird hardware problems sometimes ... but with the later updates it's been better.


The new developer network updates and beta downloads kick ass.
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DARKGuy
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 02:24
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hehehe interesting conversation

Well I must say that I bought it, and the owner said I can resell it and he'll give me his GeForce MX200 (or 2000..whatever) so it's good for now .

I've tested it with: Tomb Raider: AOD with the lowest detail level ever possible, I even configured the card in a way that the DirectX settings go lower too. The graphics were the most choppiest I've ever seen, but the movement was sweet and I could at least move, jump and reached a rooftop....and uninstalled it xD it just wasn't for my PC. With GunBound, it runs smoothly . With Unreal runs smoothly at 512x384 with the higher detail level possible. And......I tested it with DBPro....HOLY COW I got 230-247 fps!!! (just a rotating cube) at 800x600!...simply wonderful

The TNT2 installed succesfully (sp?) in my AGP slot without any problems, I installed the drivers and it worked at the second restart (first one is when W98 detects it). Warcraft III runs nicely on my PC at last . Also, Counter-Strike works wonderfully using the OpenGL driver and PSX emulators too!

Also.....looks like I'll got a 1Ghz PC in some time... (at least I will program in a decent computer....and I'll have a better PC than my mother's!.. )


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