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Geek Culture / which is better?

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clan9
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 01:57
i don't have any programming knowledge. but wish to make a Online multiplayers RPG game. hope look like diabio or ragnarok. Of course, will be much simple one. But i would like to know:
1. which software is better? 3D gamestudio or darkbasic pro?
2. which is easier to create online multiplayers RPG only. ( 3D gamemaker should be for shooter and racing,that why i didn't want to buy or consider)

3. Does darkbasic PRo support Zone/Multiserver/Client/Server ( mean able to alot players play online at one same server game)

sorry my english not good. hope u all understand
3D gamestudio at http://www.conitec.net/a4info.htm
flibX0r
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Location: Western Australia
Posted: 4th Jul 2004 02:05
lol

i'm sorry, really.

Don't aim so high. If you don't know how to program then don't aim for something like this - yet. Develop your coding skills first, mac pacman or space invaders, and then you could try to make an MMORPG or similar. It'll take a while though. Its not a quick process. To answer you questions:

1: I don't really know. Try both of them and decide (i am assuming there is a trial of 3D Gamestudio)

2: Again i don't know, but if 3D Gamestudio is for fps's, then DBP should be better

3: Yes, but a maximum of 128 players i think.

Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 06:40
3D Gamestudio is a game authoring system. It has a modeler, level editor and code editor built in.

Drums are a great responsibility... They aren't just for playing around with.

Go to Peter Criss's Official Site!
TravisP
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Location: Behind you, with a knife!
Posted: 4th Jul 2004 06:46
Quote: "i don't have any programming knowledge. but wish to make a Online multiplayers RPG game"

im not going to say it.....

--- Troan ---
|)a l33t n00b!e
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 07:03
Crystal RetroBASIC ... check this out



sweet polygon code ^_^ ... hehe sorry couldn't resist

clan9
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 08:00
reply to eter The Catman Criss

what abt darkbasic? where can i find modeler, level editor and code editor for darkbasic. if i buy package include this: DarkBASIC Professional,DarkMATTER,3D Canvas Pro,Texture Maker,Cartography Shop 4,Geoscape3D then do i need to search for level editor, code editor and modeler? which package should i need to buy to make a rpg game.


by the way, how to quote message???
Zenincanin 14
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Posted: 4th Jul 2004 08:05
3D Canvas Pro, that's a modeler.

Drums are a great responsibility... They aren't just for playing around with.

Go to Peter Criss's Official Site!
clan9
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 03:11 Edited at: 5th Jul 2004 03:11
IC... 3D canvas pro = modeler
what abt level editor and code editor?
clan9
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 15:55
i also found a website call Explorations 32bits RPG makers http://www.explore-rpg.com

i would like to make massive online RPG game. Does anyone have done online RPG game using darkbasic OR how hard using darkbasic.
Because Explorations 32bits RPG makers sound easy but only up to 10 players online
Preston C
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 16:14 Edited at: 5th Jul 2004 16:16
Buddy, you're not going to be able to make a massive multiplayer online rpg. Ever. Not on your own, and not with your current knowledge anyway.

MMORPGs require much more than just code and what not. They require servers that need constant updating, a good internet connection for those servers, and people who constantly keep the games rules in check and moderate everything. That will cost you dearly. And I mean money wise. Hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If you want to do it in Dark Basic Pro, good luck. A) DBPro uses Direct Play, which limits online games to 128 (or 256 players) per server. MMORPGS support thousands of players per server. B) DBPro was never meant to make MMORPGs. Without some sort of god like optimizing, you'd never get it to run at playable speeds. Now, I bet that seems like a lot of hard work. NO DUH! Programming games isn't a cakewalk. It never is, and it never will be. No matter what, you'll have to devote some time, patience, and skill to it, and you may never get the results you want. I should know, It's happened to me too (I started out with bigger dreams then I could actually pull off, and the after effects just about kicked me out of the programming world entirely, but I'm still here because I wisened up, and now I'm much better than before).

Quote: "what abt darkbasic? where can i find modeler, level editor and code editor for darkbasic. if i buy package include this: DarkBASIC Professional,DarkMATTER,3D Canvas Pro,Texture Maker,Cartography Shop 4,Geoscape3D then do i need to search for level editor, code editor and modeler? which package should i need to buy to make a rpg game."


Dark Basic and Dark Basic Pro are compilers (or interpreters in Dark Basic's case) and include their own IDEs, which you can use to edit the code. There are also several third party IDEs, which you can download for free, and will work for DB and DBPro. But they do not allow you to compile the code without the actual compiler.

For your modeller, 3D Canvas Pro is a modeller if you didn't know. For a texturer, Texture Maker will do. If you didn't know, objects need textures or else they dont have those pretty looking graphics you see in all of those other games in the world.

Cartography Shop and Geoscape are level and world editors. They will help you build your levels. In order to use Cartography shop though, you'll need to use models you've alread modelled. Geoscape just creates pretty looking terrains.

Dark Matter is a little model pack that supplies commercial quality models for use in your games. Thats it. Otherwise, if you have DBC, and not the enhancement pack, the enhancement pack comes with Dark Matter as well.

Quote: " i also found a website call Explorations 32bits RPG makers http://www.explore-rpg.com

i would like to make massive online RPG game. Does anyone have done online RPG game using darkbasic OR how hard using darkbasic.
Because Explorations 32bits RPG makers sound easy but only up to 10 players online"


Honestly, those click and drag game makers wont get you anywhere in this business, unless you're quite good at it, and no one knows you made your program in a click and drag program. Especially here, click and drag just shows laziness and lack of skill.

Now slap yourself in the face, hard. Wisen up, and aim lower. No one will be able to program an MMORPG until they're professionals. And that takes a long time.

If you dont have the patience for this sort of thing, you can stop now. Just get out of here, and stomp out your dreams, you wont get anywhere.

Sorry if I seem harsh, but people have to tell these kind of people the truth, and show them their errors. People showed me mine, several times (Rapscallion, would have to be the one person who showed me my errors, and I have to thank him for it).

Cheers,
Preston


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
clan9
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 19:56
i would like to make MMORPGS. i don't believe that my skill can up to this level even after 5 to 6 years. that why i also looking for click and drag game makers to help and also hope that click and drag game makers and open by darkbasic, so that all programming can be seem. So that i can easily see how the programming work.

U can said i try to take shortcut. That why ppls try to make those click and drag game makers more advance to let those ppl don't know programming yet can create own MMORPGS.
Mussi
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Posted: 5th Jul 2004 20:23
you're not going to find a click and drag program that'll allow you to make a mmorpg, not now, not for a long time...



Specs: AMD Athlon 1800, 256 DDRRam 266mhz, 80GB HD 7200rmp U133, Geforce 4 Ti4400 128mb
Preston C
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 02:59 Edited at: 6th Jul 2004 03:00
Quote: "That why ppls try to make those click and drag game makers more advance to let those ppl don't know programming yet can create own MMORPGS."


Noo...most of those people who make the click and drag programs know there are stupid people like you who would waste their money on a stupid little program that promises way to much. Thats why they make them. Its because of the Money, Moolah, CASH!

Quote: "hat why i also looking for click and drag game makers to help and also hope that click and drag game makers and open by darkbasic, so that all programming can be seem."


Do you know how many programming langauges there are out there? Do you know that there have been no click and drag programs made in DBPro (as far as I know). Do you know that if you wanted to see the actual code for these click and drag programs, you could download a hex editor and open up the exe in it? Do you know what you'd get? Heres and example:



You'd get something like that. Programming languages are out there to make things easier for programmers so we dont have to program in machine code. Not every single program compiled in one language is compatible in another language if reverse compiled. In fact, most of the time, its completely impossible such a case will happen.

Now like I said, wisen up. Unless you actually learn to program, you'll never make an MMORPG. And that requires skill, patience, and the willingness to actually do something. Otherwise, you'll never make one. Ever. No one is ever going to make a click and drag program that makes an MMORPG. Why? A) It would be to hard. B) It would cost too much money for them as well. Remember the hundreds of thousands of dollars thing I mentioned above? Think about it. If he sold that program, and millions of copies were sold, imagine how much money he'd be spending, just to keep it going. More than Bill Gates could even dream of.

People like you make me sick. Thinking that game making is just some walk in the park thing. Why do you think the big game companies have teams of over 50 people or so working on the same game. So they could click or drag it together? NO! They sit on their asses for many hours at a time, coding the game (in languages far more advanced than Dark Basic Pro), making the media for the game (in other, more advanced tools still), and composing music for the game.

Cheers,
Preston

[Edit] Sorry about the uber murderous machine code snippet and its annoying ability to absolutely stretch the page. Dont open it unless you're the type of person who just has to open ever code box they see (and unless you're that MMORPG idiot above).


Intel Celeron 1.3 Ghrz 512MB Ram NVIDIA GeForceFX 5200 128MB
Z Interactive
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 03:09
Well, since using both Dark Basic and 3D Gamestudio I can say that Dark Basic is easier. But if you want everything built in in one program (as in the modeler and level editor) then get 3D Gamestudio. Problem is 3D Gamestudio uses C-Script (basically JavaScript) and basically, BASIC is easier. So, hope that helps.

P.S. MMORPG's take a long time to learn to make. If you tried to make one by yourself you might make it but probablly not because of cost. And about that Click to Create MMORPG thing you mentioned. Those programs only let you make RPG's not MMORPG's. But maybe someday somebody will make a Click to Create a MMORPG program. But don't wait up for this program because it might not happen for 10 years. But, if you tried maybe you could make your own. Well, look what Dark Basic Pro can do! It's that language being used to make the First Person Shooter Creator! So, I think I helped enough. Talk To Ya Later!
clan9
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 20:28
i found some click and drag to create RPG and MMORPG website

RPG only with 2D http://www.toolkitzone.com/
this is free toolkit and really cute. just like go back to 80s game.

MMORPG at http://www.explore-rpg.com What i read is there only up to 10 players and version 8 soon will be massive multiplayer

I believe that darkbasic can create better then this because using programming and those are fix but easy.

So there is someone still try to make click and drag tool for games and try to make better and better. I not sure when there can overcome those traditional game makers. ( example: i use to create website by notepad since 1996. there is no frontpage or dreamweaver that time and now those software took over notepad and now even 6 years old kid also know how to create website)

sorry, back to topic again. Money have to go out. I can't afford to buy both 3Dgamestudio and darkbasic. and is also waste of time learn both.... Which is easier and which is better? Z Interactive said darkbasic is easier.. i found a website , he mention he got darkbasic and switch to 3dgamestudio because darkbasic is hard for him. search his name BrianB. that is also someone prefer darkbasic, search the name greggman. all this website at http://www.greggman.com/pages/making.htm

pls help. i have to buy one of them... i will try to learn C. to make simple game. just that now i confuse because the more i search....
The Lynx
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 22:58 Edited at: 6th Jul 2004 22:58
Quote: "and is also waste of time learn both"

Maybe for someone like you, who is unwilling to learn.

Quote: "pls help. i have to buy one of them... i will try to learn C. to make simple game. just that now i confuse because the more i search.... "

C++ is even harder then DarkBASIC. If you aren't going to listen to Preston then there is no hope for you but to let you learn the hard way. So good luck, hope that click and drag program works out for you.

Oh no! Chrissy had used her powers to turn herself into a hideous man-eating giant!
Van B
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Posted: 6th Jul 2004 23:03
Clan,
It's simple:

a) You want to make a RPG game but don't really want to learn coding.
b) You want to make a game however you like and are willing to learn coding.

A or B?


Van-B


The nature of Monkey was irrepressible!.
Ian T
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 01:55
It really comes down to learning nothing and making someone else's game with someone else's design tools, or learning a language and making your own game with someone else's design tools. Or being truly hardcore and making your own design tools, but that's a different matter than I'm discussing .


Shooting for Eternium Man.
Peter H
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Posted: 7th Jul 2004 04:22 Edited at: 7th Jul 2004 04:24
"click and drag" gamemakers will never ever make a truly original game. even if they did allow you to make a MMORPG it would be just like everybody else's AND it would cost you loads of cash.

there is no easy way to make a MMORPG and there is no easy way to get money...a saying i like is
Quote: "There's no such thing as a free lunch"


to make a MMORPG a group of 50 or so people work their tails off for 2 to 4 YEARS(and that's not counting the time it took for them to learn C++ and become expert modelers, and composers...)

so let's see you could make a MMORPG by yourself(this includes time to learn how to model and compose)...in about...102 years


Formerly known as "DarkWing Duck"
clan9
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Posted: 12th Jul 2004 09:23
Quote: "3: Yes, but a maximum of 128 players i think."


reply to Mr Flibble ,

so darkbasic have limited upto 128 players at one game.
because some other list out umlimited....
Tomy
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Posted: 13th Jul 2004 09:53
Quote: "Well, since using both Dark Basic and 3D Gamestudio I can say that Dark Basic is easier. But if you want everything built in in one program (as in the modeler and level editor) then get 3D Gamestudio. Problem is 3D Gamestudio uses C-Script (basically JavaScript) and basically, BASIC is easier. So, hope that helps.
"


You should look out for what sh*t you're telling!
Java is a Script language! This means Java is a language that is interpreted - meaning the syntax is converted to machine code in run-time. Tho 3DGS has a compiler for their so called C-Script (strange that they call it "script" as it's a programming language!)

Furthermore Java is an OOP only! Do you understand that? C-Script not!
(i know the developers are saying it's like java - they mean the syntax tho)

But actually one thing should help for your decision:

MMORPGs created with DBPRO: 0 (as far as i know)
MMORPGs created with 3DGS: uncountable

BTW i have both DBP and 3DGS and i prefer DBP.. cuz i'm not planning to make an MMORPG


GameVisions Softwares - http://www.gamevisions.ne1.net
zircher
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Posted: 14th Jul 2004 03:17
Quote: "pls help. i have to buy one of them... i will try to learn C. to make simple game. just that now i confuse because the more i search.... "


My suggestion would be the game maker program since it more closely matches your skills. After all, what's the point in buying a programming language if you don't use it?
--
TAZ

History did not begin with PONG. -- Greg Costikyan

Game Beavers
clan9
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 08:04
Quote: "BTW i have both DBP and 3DGS and i prefer DBP.. cuz i'm not planning to make an MMORPG "


hey at last i found someone have both. why u prefer DB? i would like to know? more powerful and stronger??
Tomy
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 08:21 Edited at: 16th Jul 2004 08:22
the reasons are:
-DBP is much cheaper than 3DGS's equal editions (com/pro)
-3DGS has stupid editors which i don't want to use. i want to use my own editors/modellers and that's easier with DBP (in 3DGS you have to import your models in the editors and your really lucky if they load properly)
-Polygon limit in A5 of 3DGS (50000 polys)
-the BSP compiling takes a lot of time (and it happens very often that you get a nasty error message)

there are also advantages in 3DGS, but i don't feel like mention them in a DBP forum (and they aren't very arguements anyway).

BTW a lot of 3DGS users also own DBP (tho they don't usually come in these forums)
So why don't you go ask in the 3DGS forum?


GameVisions Softwares - http://www.gamevisions.ne1.net
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 08:51
Quote: " In order to use Cartography shop though, you'll need to use models you've alread modelled."


Um...where did you get that?
You can make levels from scratch with Cart Shop.

clan9: I also own 3D gamestudio, and in my opinion DBP is alot easier and equals more productivity for you.

Jeku
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 09:46
Quote: "Java is a Script language! This means Java is a language that is interpreted - meaning the syntax is converted to machine code in run-time."


Hate to split hairs but Clan was referring to JavaSCRIPT, not Java. Java and JavaScript are two totally different things.

Phaelax
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 17:14
Quote: "You should look out for what sh*t you're telling!
Java is a Script language! This means Java is a language that is interpreted"


I think maybe you should look out for what you're telling.

"eureka" - Archimedes
David T
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Posted: 16th Jul 2004 17:43
Javascript is totally interpreted. Because the syntax looks the same doesn't mean it is the same.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
Tomy
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Posted: 17th Jul 2004 06:10


sorry


GameVisions Softwares - http://www.gamevisions.ne1.net

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