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Geek Culture / Having some network problems...

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HZence
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Posted: 8th Jul 2004 23:54 Edited at: 8th Jul 2004 23:56
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Hi all,

First of all thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

My family has three computers, and we have a home network set up. We have a DSL line, which connects to a router, and our three computers are connected to the router with CAT5 cables. Our router is a Netgear RP114. My dad has a Dell. I have a former dell, but I upgraded it, so it's custom. My brother has a custom computer. We all use Windows XP home edition (legal copies).

None of us have any problems accessing the internet, ever. But for some reason, when we try to play LAN games, we can never see each other. This goes for virtually any game we've ever tried - Age Of Empires II, Tiberian Sun, Unreal Tournament. It doesn't work. I know for a few games, you have to enable IPX/SPX protocol which isn't installed by default on XP. We did that. It still doesn't work.

Also, we can't see each other in "My Network Places." The only workgroup computers that any of us can see are our own. My dad has shared documents, as do my brother and I. Nonetheless, nothing shows up with the exception of what's on our computer.

Does anyone have any idea as to why this is happening?

Here's some extra info:
1. My brother and I both have onboard LAN.
2. My dad has a 10/100 ethrenet card (not sure what kind, D-Link I think).

Thanks.

An additional note, Netgear has barely info on this router on their site. Furthermore, there have never been any upgrades released for it.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 8th Jul 2004 23:57
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any firewalls running on the pc's?


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:00
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Generally the Windows XP firewall can cause these sorts of problems...
The other possibility is the DNS system isn't working properly for some reason (you can generally access other computers using the \\ipaddress\ way - which is what I have to do with all the bits active).
The other possibility is the router allows segregation of networks (so each computer thinks its on its own in the network).


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:00 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 00:03
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@CattleRustler: Nope. I used to use ZoneAlarm. My brother used to use Tiny Personal Firewall. I've recently reformatted, and didn't bother to reinstall ZoneAlarm.

Coincidentally, when I had ZoneAlarm installed on my PC, I couldn't get Outlook Express to work. Now that I don't have ZA, Outlook works fine. I think my firewall may have been giving me trouble in the past. But like I said, it's long gone.

Oh, and my dad doesn't use a firewall. But, note that a firewall is a hardware firewall.

@TCA:

Quote: "you can generally access other computers using the \ipaddress way - which is what I have to do with all the bits active)."


Yeah, I know. I can still type in http://192.168.0.1 and access my router (with user name and pass of course). Nonetheless, this is pissing me off. I shouldn't have to do it that way!

It's gotta be something with my computers. My friend has a modded XBox that's basically running Windows. We hooked that up to our network, and I could access it!


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Van B
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:01
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I feel your pain.

And the pain is that freakin XP Home - Microshaft removed a lot of the good networking functionality with 'Home to encourage people to get the much more expensive XP Pro. You'd have to upgrade to XP Pro on each machine, and your talking about a lot of money.

I'd be tempted to install Win98se instead on all your PC's. Put this way, I have a similar network, 1 XP machine and 2 98se machines, the 2 98se machines network beutifully, the XP machine - pffft.


Van-B


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:04
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Van B, I like XP better than 98 Personally. It's just a hell of a lot more stable, not to mention it requires virtually no reboots, ever.


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:06
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Quote: "The other possibility is the router allows segregation of networks (so each computer thinks its on its own in the network)."


That may be a possibility. How would I find this out? Furthermore, how would I change it?


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:17
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You would need to get to the router web configurator and change it there. To change it you would need to switch it off.

If you have a Draytek router I would be able to help in that respect.


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:34
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It's a Netgear. I appreciate the offer though.

However, I will look into it. In the mean time, any more info would be great.


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:40 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 00:41
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Okay, I'm looking at router maintenance right now, and this is what I see:



That indicates that the router does recognize all three systems at least, right?

EDIT:

192.168.0.1 = Router
192.168.0.2 = My computer
192.168.0.3 = My dad's computer
192.168.0.4 = My brother's computer


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 00:46 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 00:48
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The only real thing to stop the names appearing is the services aren't running or its being blocked by the XP firewall (have you checked to see if it is active or not). I suppose Zone Alarm could also do it as well.

I presume the DHCP side could be failing has well, so I suggest having a look and see if the following services are running :

DHCP Client
DNS Client
Network Connections

to start with. There are probably a few more, but at the moment I'm using an XP Professional machine, so I dont want to list any that are used by that.

Yes, the server certainly sees all the machines, so I do think it its an XP problem.


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 01:14 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 02:59
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Here's what system status shows.

Quote: "System Name :
Firmware Version: V3.26(CD.0) | 8/17/2001


WAN Port :
IP Address : **.***.***.***
DHCP : None
IP Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.255

LAN Port :
IP Address : 192.168.0.1
DHCP : Server
IP Subnet Mask : 255.255.255.0 "


Quote: "DHCP Client
DNS Client
Network Connections"


Where would I check these processes?


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 02:20
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<notes ip address...>


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the_winch
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 02:21
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Can they ping each other?

can i scream
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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 02:59
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Thanks for the sarcastic reply CattleRustler. Censored the IP.

@Winch: Haven't tried it. Will do though.


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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 03:57
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Neofish
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 04:30 Edited at: 9th Jul 2004 04:33
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it might be prudent to note home edition does NOT network without a server, my dad had to spend loads upgrading our PCs

edit: i skim read the posts, already been said, use a partion or if you dont want to upgrade but have money buy or convert a PC to a server

BTW im getting wireless networking and ASDL soon, it'll be so cool, download loads of crap while playing on Xbox live


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 05:05
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Quote: "edit: i skim read the posts, already been said, use a partion or if you dont want to upgrade but have money buy or convert a PC to a server"


Well, you should have skimmed better. We're using a router, which acts as a server. Otherwise how could all three computers be networked?


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Van B
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:00
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I don't think so, a router acts more like a lame hub so that computers can share a broadband connection. PC's like to connect to servers, you can get decent connections over 3 PC's under 98se, you could probably connect 2 of your PC's quite comfortably - but 3 PC's on XP Home without a server is a complicated beast.

XP Home won't mind TCP or IPX networked games and broadband sharing, just don't ask it to appear on a network neighborhood!.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:04
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Why not though - if 98 machines can, XP machines should be able to - unless some parts of the networking system isn't working.

Did you ping the computers, by the way?


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Van B
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 19:47
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Microshaft removed a lot of networking functionality in XP Home so that business users would have to buy the more expensive XP Pro. IIRC it's like £65 for Home, and £250 for Pro!.


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HZence
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 22:37
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TCA, I tried pinging every IP address, including my own. They all time out except when I ping myself.

I don't get it.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 22:57
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Quote: "They all time out except when I ping myself."

That does sound like a firewall blocking access - at the moment its the only thing I can think of.


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 9th Jul 2004 22:59
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the firewall should not block ping, but should block other access from machine to machine - you've got something strange happening there


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Neofish
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 05:02
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i use a hub and the router goes through the input plug in that and then to all the PCs, to have a decent connection, file sharing etc you need pro or a proper server


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HZence
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 06:08
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So what exactly should I do then?


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DeepBlue
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 07:34 Edited at: 10th Jul 2004 07:37
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OK the router is probably a red herring as it 'should' not even touch the routing engine as all your computers are on the same network.

Something/software is blocking ICMP packets (ping) & probably several other services.

1. Check you do not have Windows Internet Connection Firewall enabled on the network card. To do this select:

Start > Control Panel > Network and Internet Connections (if in category view) > Network Connections.

Right click on the Local Area Connection and select properties.

Select the advanced tab.

If prior to XP SP2 make sure the 'Protect my computer and network by limiting or preventing access to this computer from the Internet' is not checked.

If XP SP2 or later, select the settings button for Windows Firewall then make sure 'Off' is selected.

Don't panic about this you are behind a NAT based router so you can't be attacked directly from the Internet via a port attack.

2. If the above was not enabled make sure any antivirus/firewall/zone alarm is not configured to block/bind itself to the network card on the machine (have seen this several times & causes the same symptoms you are having, Pc-Cillin is very good at doing this (might help if you tell us what you have loaded).

For 1 & 2: You will have to do this on all the machines.

3. It's uncommon but there are a few cases where the same problem occurs due to XP having become corrupt, seems unlikely as they are all different builds (and it requires a reload).

4. Rare but a few cases where it is a duff router although in theory the router should not come into play. Only real way to test that is to connect 2 PC's via a cross-over cable, or connect to a hub/switch rather than the router to see if the same problem occurs.

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 07:58
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Thanks DeepBlue - will do this on all machines and get back to you.


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HZence
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 14:18
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Whoa -- I have no clue what happened. All of the sudden I can see my brother's shared areas! I went into check whether that option was checked like you suggested, DeepBlue. It wasn't. But once I clicked ok, I tried repairing the connection, and suddenly I could see my brother!

My bro said he still couldn't see me. So I checked his computer -- he had 'Protect my computer and network by limiting or preventing access to this computer from the Internet' checked!

DeepBlue, I think you've solved our problem.

It's late, but tomorrow at some point we'll try some LAN games in Tiberian Sun and Unreal Tournament. I'll let you know how things go.

Thanks again everyone.


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DeepBlue
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Posted: 10th Jul 2004 21:10
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Any chance you can pop over to the UK & finish the server migration I'm on over the weekend, as I now have a stinking headache & wish I wasn't at work

On the up side I'm waiting for several Gig to copy & I just got thier Internet up so at least I still have the forums

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HZence
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Posted: 11th Jul 2004 07:07
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Heh.

Well we've tried Unreal. It's wierd though; when I host a game, my bro can't see it. When my bro hosts, I can see it, but I can't get in. Wierd huh?

Well we'll see what we can do. At least file sharing works now.

Still owe you one DeepBlue.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Jul 2004 07:09
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Said it was a firewall problem


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HZence
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Posted: 11th Jul 2004 14:06
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Be that as it may, you didn't specify You should assume "us computer-illiterate idiots" know nothing. I always do ^^

Side note, me and my bro played a LAN game of Unreal and Tiberian Sun tonight. W00t, we're back in business.


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Jul 2004 17:57
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Yes, Unreal is a good multiplayer - could also try C&C:Generals, and various racing games...


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