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Geek Culture / Just A Word On Racism-The Street Runs Both Ways

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Golgo13
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 04:09
Being a thread was started about some game you were talking about in the 'Sick But Addictive' thread, I'd like to add a quote and then my own personal commentary on the state of racism, and the one way street it employs to achieve the ends of it's employers......

BUT unfortunately Racism (or any other ism) often works in reverse. For example if I was applying for a job, being a young, white, middleclass, well educated man in good health, I would often loose the job to someone perhaps less qualified than myself because a (for instance) black person applied for the job, and the employer doesn't want to be percieved as Racist. Kangaroo 2

AMEN-
Well, I'm not racist but I have my reservations
over a few things, and I speak from personal experience-this is gonna' get long so please bear with me.

I lost a good paying job to reverse discrimination once.

The week of this 'Million Man March' back in 95', every black person where I worked was acting up. This one woman started on me over dropping a bag of candy before I packed it, and she made a comment that the "only thing white men could hold on to was their dic*s, IF they could find them".

I put it right back to her that I wasn't going to stand for any racially motivated commentary andTHAT'S when she started her shit, since that was all she needed-she went nuts-the head swinging, and the 'excuse me, ex-CUSE me' crap, and she went up front and told the management a pack of lies, and I had to go before the board of inquiry, which I may add had NOT ONE WHITE PERSON ON IT.
They ministered to HER claims but when I told them that I was being 'reverse discriminated', they said there said there was no legal recourse for reverse discrimination.
And she sat there laughing at me in the office and noone could do a thing. At that time my blood pressure was unreadable...


ALL BECAUSE I TOLD HER I WASN'T TAKING OR ADDRESING ANY RACIAL COMMENTS. I should have just kept my mouth shut.

And none of my friends would testify for me either-because they said they needed 'their' jobs, and that they didn't want to come home and find their houses firebombed.

That's why nothing gets done about racism in America-it's all one sided and the ones who scream for justice back out at the 11th hour. Some friends........I decided to go it alone and resolve the matter myself but they made ME to look like the troublemaker, and I got canned for trying to vindicate myself.

As far as I'm concerened,
the truth is it was better to blame a white person, and sweep it under the rug than it was to address the issue and get a lawsuit from a bunch of punks like Affirmative Action or the NAACP.
I hate to say it but Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and that Farrakhan guy are a bunch of punks, who DON'T want peace and equality unless it's on THEIR terms, because if TRUE peace and equality were served, they would all be out of a job.......

The day that reverse discrimination is also addressed and made prosecutable, will be the day we TRULY have equality. But until then I guess the system can bend over for whoever's turn it is to screw it from behind.

If someone wants to be treated like a human, they should expect to be treated in kind, and not use the law to achieve their own ends. If it's illegal for one side to discriminate, it should also be illegal for the OTHER side to discriminate as well. End of story.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 04:26
Man, that's sick. Just reading your story made me want to slap that women. It's so very true...

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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Megaman X
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 04:55
yeah Somethings never change in this world...

"Never argue with an Idiot, they will always bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
-- Rogue
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 06:23
Thanks for quoting me, and obviously I agree with you. Thats awful, and hopefully one day all this crap will calm down and every1 will be equal until judged by their skills/work/merits

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
Golgo13
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 08:47
Agreed,
and thank God SOMEONE realizes
where I'm coming from on this
very sore subject. You don't
know how many times I have been called
a Nazi or a hate spewer for my
opinions on reverse discrimination...

I realize that America may have her faults,
but all in all,
we are a decent place-we can't and SHOULD not,
be judged by the
actions of the past, but it seems that many people jealous of our freedoms
(who many died for, twice in one century I might add, so that we may have them)
are all too ready to throw it up in our faces to hide their own shortcomings.

This is a bit off topic, but still relative:

Yes, the Taliban and Al Qaeda can bitch that
Americans are allegedly killing their freedom fighters in Palestine, OR they could step back and realize that Americans troops were never there, and that most of the killing has come as a result of backing Israel into a corner, as well as their misguided martyrdom-driven suicide bombings.

HOWEVER, it's still OK for Shi'ite radicals to beat their women for accidentally showing a tuft of hair or part of their face from beneath their burka's, AND it's OK to kill a man if his beard isn't long enpough for Allah (this was on the news....)

As far as Americans and guns, yes I am a gun owner and damn proud of it,and Ihave shot responsibly for a little over 30 years since I was 8 and my dad had a custom 22.cal made for me.
Europe can lay off America about guns because there was a college and or school shooting in both Yugoslavia and Germany this past year. So now we have an even bill of fare (or unfair, being that many good people were killed w\o cause).

In any case, I am using these as side examples of the way people will complain about their hardships all the while trying to take away from someone else, and then using everything at their disposal to distract from it by starting trouble with another group, if you get me.

In any case thanks you so much for allowing me to get this off my back-I feel a lot better and feel that since we all more or less basically in agreement that as I said The Stret Runs BOTH Ways.

Thanks for giving me forum, folks, you rock!!!
Your new buddy, Reptilicus

CD On CD
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 09:24
yes, the street does run BOTH ways (or at least it's suppose to)...now, by NO means am i prejudice, quite the opposite but i get just as SICK of those groups you mentioned crying foul at the least bit! case in point: the stepping down of Trent Lott!!! looks like he's bowing to the presure from ALL over when he initialy said he would NOT step down! now, if he truely IS a racist,,,then he should step down, but to step down just because a mr. jackson, or a mr. sharpton, or some lunatic group starts complaining!!!!!

another case in point: did ya see where some group (only 1 group mind you) i belive in georgia (or somewhere down South) threatened to sue a school district over the phrase "Christmas Holiday" vs. "Winter Holiday?"...because ONE group went down this ONE WAY STREET, the school board backed down and went with "Winter Holiday" since the other could of had some type of "other religious" meaning!!! come on!!!

this of course can be said to just about ANY group crying foul (but it does seem to go only ONE WAY) as you said. so it's not just blacks/whites, americans/afghanistans, gays/straights, dogs/cats (people against cruelty to animals you know). there are just way too many activist groups!

perhaps some of us on the OTHER SIDE of this one-way street need to form our own group, eh? hmmm, let's see,,what could we call it? how about; "You Stupid, Idiotic People That Cry Foul Over The Littlest Thing Make Me Sick So I'm Gonna Start Fightin Back With My Own Group To Cry Foul Over Your Foul And I'm Turning This One-Way Street Back Into A Two-way!!" yeah, i know it's long but it says a mouthfull

United We (Still) Stand
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 11:28
Erm... Hmm...
i've recently made my position on all of this clear, and i mean sometime i wonder myself if i'm some sorta racist or like homophobic as you see them hype it up all the time.

but that how society is isn't it ... it forces upon you that if you even think outside of PC then you're labeled, and really this has only affected me since living more within the US.
Because if you say something that is outside of thier box of the normal they will stare are you like you've just killed a lamb or something.
It is disheartening to say, but all these laws and liberties that you've given yourselfs - and the hyperuse of lawyers has given everyone a true EDGE about things that shouldn't be issues.

I mean within the UK the discriminations act as without the whole of the EU (lol sometimes its good the EU tells the UK what to pass as laws sometimes ) actually means that it works both ways.
As my mom is a Unison worker who tends to sit there and fight on both sides of this and handel legal advice, you'll find that alot of a certain type of people tend to play on the law to thier advantage ... these are the people who get the job because they're a minority, they're slacker workers, and actually don't want to work.

ho hum well sod it... personally i don't care, because at the end of the day even the unskilled can only get so far - so fudge 'em all

i know by the time i'm 40 i'm gonna be sitting very pretty cause i work my butt off and i'm not to shabby at it.
and the only people who need to be scared or jelious enough to make the comments of racism or whatnot are those that these people are likely to replace.

I maybe beaten to a job by someone less skilled to make up the minorities ... but quite frankly i could a apply again in a few weeks time because they won't last

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
haggisman
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 12:22
As far as Americans and guns, yes I am a gun owner and damn proud of it,and Ihave shot responsibly for a little over 30 years since I was 8 and my dad had a custom 22.cal made for me.
Europe can lay off America about guns because there was a college and or school shooting in both Yugoslavia and Germany this past year. So now we have an even bill of fare (or unfair, being that many good people were killed w\o cause).


lol one incident barely compares to the amount of gun deaths in america:-

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
homicide Suicide Unintentional
USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
UK 0.12 (1999) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)

now tell me how your lax gun laws are better than ours.

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 13:08
"TV said that? ... but I have to have a gun. Its in the constitution. If you don't have a gun, the King of England could march in at any moment and start pushing you around. Do you want that? Do ya?"

"I'm sorry I lied to you, but that gun had a power over me. Like GOD must feel when HE'S holding a gun..."

lol sorry. I agree that Many Americans abuse their right to own guns. However, there are a great many responsible gun owners too

Every1 knows my stance on the whole racism, predudice thing, so I'm gonna leave it at that so as not to sound like a broken record. Thats not 2 say I don't wholeheartedly agree with you all tho

* If the apocalypse comes, email me *
Megaman X
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 14:33
lol... SIMPSONS - HOMER GOT A GUN Great episode Kangaroo2

"Never argue with an Idiot, they will always bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
-- Rogue
Kale
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 14:35
i live in the UK and i remember that there was a 'high school gun rampage'. Immediately after that ALL handguns were banned outside of government agencies! which is how it should be. Ordinary citizens (or in the UK, subjects) should not need guns!

i agree over the discrimination blurb BTW!

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Rob K
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 15:24
Actually an awful lot of the guns used in UK guncrime are fakes. You can get some extremely realistic fakes, and they are completely legal. Some of these "fakes" can be converted into lethal weapons for as little as £50. This is how quite a few guns are obtained.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 18:44
I believe the problem is not the guns themselves, it's the world we live in today. Humans have had guns and other lethal weapons for a LONG time, why only now do things like school rampages start? It's the TV, the video games (although I hate to admit it), the violence, hate, racism, descrimination, etc that influences the kind of kids that shoot their classmates, not to mention divorce, drugs alcohalism etc. Now we may think we aren't affected by it, but we all are, some more, some less.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
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Kale
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2002 20:08
i disagree about TV, video games, etc.. incitng violence, i have been playing many violent video games for years and i love gory horror films and i love thrash metal but it has never made me want to kill other people. same with my friends. i think you need to be a little mentally unbalanced for these things to effect you and if thats the case anything could send you 'over the edge'! i think they make conveinient targets for politicians.

What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.
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Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 00:35
lol one incident barely compares to the amount of gun deaths in america:- True, Haggis Man, but it STILL happened...and where there is smoke, eventually there will be fire. The door has always been there waiting for someone to open it. yes the incidents aren't as many in Europe, but it STILL happened.

And it's not my fault that irresponsible idiots
wave their guns around like it was their wanker just to show how 'badass' they are to their friends. We ever did that in our house, and we would get beaten till we' couldn't stand-my dad is retired Army and he didn't stand for weapon waving or any Dirty Harry type stuff. And that's how it should be, a gun is NOT a toy. Wake the hell up!

A car can kill too-look at the drunken driving deaths in America and abroad, but no, a car isn't a weapon, right?
I guess it's OK to accept drunk driving while we nail gun owners to the cross, and I for one am sick of it.

Be it a car, a gun, or drugs-it can kill, and it
seems to me that the overwhelming majority of our
clueless population seems to have a problem with the word responsibility

I suppose if you steal someone's car, and then get into an accident because the brakes don't work, that means you can sue the person who owns the car you stole off of them, right? Reminds me of an old song by a band called Wrathchild America- I'm Surrounded By Idiots......

Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 00:46
Now tell me how your lax
gun laws are better than ours


And I never said our own gun laws were better than yours, Haggis Man-I am just saying that irresponsibilty is the key word that ties every incident together-if people would follow the rules, there wouldn't BE a problem.

But why should the whole populace suffer because someone fails to obey the rules? It's OK to wack on gun owners, but yet if we had a law that took away alcohol and tobacco, the whole U.S. would be a civil war zone. Haven't we seen in the past that alcohol and tobacco can kill too?

Anyway, let the rest of the world do what they want as long as it's not in my back yard, because if it makes it that far, then there's going to be trouble.

RESPONSIBILITY, people. Listen to the word.

And on that note, the Holiday is coming up, ALL of you have a safe and happy Christmas, and you'd better come back to the board in one piece come the New Year, or I'm going to personally come over to your houses and put water in your milk.........
Yer buddy, Reptilicus

Puffy
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 02:33
*shudders* water milk...

AMD Athlon XP 2100+ OC to 3Ghz/1.5gigs ram/128mb ti4200/120gigs hd/19" monitor/Sound Blaster Audigy Platinum EX/3072kbs Sat Con... I joined in!
rapscaLLion
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 04:56
Kale: As I said, some are more affected than others. It all depends on neighbourhood, your upbringing, etc. You might be a peace activist after playing all the video games and music and such, but some kid across town from you may listen to the exact same music, and play the exact same games, but maybe he is depressed, lost something or someone, got into the wrong crowd, etc. I'm not saying it's entirely todays world to blame, but it sure doesn't help.

I play CS a lot, for example. I'm not addicted to it, nor am I particularily great at it. Actually, I sorta suck, but that's beside the point. There really is no need for all the blood in it, when you actually stop to look at the gore, but I don't mind, because that's the world I was raised in. My parents however are disgusted by the gore and such. But I don't even notice it. Now that may not affect me, but it has to affect someone.

I agree that the problem is severly overplayed, but it is still a problem.

Merry Christmas All!

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Kain
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 06:28
Boy this topic is all over the place From racism to gun violence. I'd like to bring up another topic, more closely related to the original.

We all know there's reverse descrimination in regards to racism, but what about sexism? Has anyone noticed (in the US I'm not sure about other countries) that in almost EVERY SINGLE ADVERTISEMENT the man is made to look less intelligent than the woman? Can you imagine what would happen if the reverse was shown? Here's an example I recently read in a magazine article on this topic:

"Imagine this commercial for Dell computers. A woman is sitting at her computer looking frustrated. After pressing several keys she breaks down into tears and gives up. Her husband strolls in, rolls his eyes, presses one key and walks away. A voice comes in saying 'Dell computers, so simple even your wife would use it'"

That was an actual advertisement, in the reverse. But were there any complaints about it? I didn't hear anything.

www.shrikesoftware.com
heartbone
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 08:04
golgo 13 "I realize that America may have her faults,
but all in all, we are a decent place-we can't and SHOULD not, be judged by the actions of the past, ...."

That is pure BS. How else can you judge something?

When the 2/3 of America that are not "White" males conttrol 2/3 of America, THEN all will be right.
Right now that 1/3 controls over 2/3. And it's STILL PRETTY UGLY.

Merry Christmas dudes.
Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 08:57
BS, huh? Well if you were listening......

What I meant, Heartbone,
is that America as well as other nations, should not be
completely judged by the past-I mean, look at our relationship with England-did we sit back and say to them 'Well you controlled us back in the days of the colonies, so we hate you now'?
NO, we did NOT.
We forged a relationship based on trust and mutual understanding, seeing the past not as a buffer, but as a historic look upon how far we have come and the way we are friends today as a result of our two nations forgetting their past histories.

Should Germany be held responsible for the actions of the past? NO, not ALL Germans were anti-Semitic. Oskar Schindler helped many escape Germany, and America accepted the Jews after WW2. It's not my fault (or America's) that asshole kids are running around wearing swastikas and lead filled boots and beating on them.

Again, INDIVIDUALS, not EVERYONE. This is the last G.D. time I'm saying it. Take the pole out of your nethers and the cotton out of your ears and listen up!

So it's YOU who are full of BS, Heartbone, not me-again, like Haggis Man, you are reading, but not between the lines.
Spanish author George Santayana said that those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it Obvioulsy, England and America have not forgotten the past because we have not repeated it.

Just because you and your little cadre of friends may not want to be friends with America, don't ruin it for the rest of us, OK? because there are plenty on both sides of the Atlantic who DO want to be friends. Nuff' said.

Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 09:24
When the 2/3 of America that are not "White" males conttrol 2/3 of America, THEN all will be right.

I will NOT make this a white
VS whatever color thing,
it wasn't meant to be that way,
Mr. Heartbone

But I will address you from a number of fronts because I don't know your nationality or your political beliefs....

As to slavery, well if you are African American,
I would suggest you look to your own peoples, because
there were many kings and queens in Africa who sold their own people to the slavers in return for their own personal freedom This is a historical fact. Were they true to your people like the American Indian was to theirs? NO. You mayhave been forced to ist inthe back of the bus, but you aren't confined to a reservation and banned
from learning your languages if you want to.

If you are Muslim, all I have to say is that not all of you are responsible for 9\11,and many of us realize that. But as to you and your comment about 2/3 of NON white people controlling what's left of America to make it right, well then all I have to say is this-

If your idea of 'controlling' is using Shi ite' fundamentalism to terrorize the world and blackmail your own people by beating women for not covering their faces, and killing men because their beards aren't long enough to please Allah, then you are truly sick and need to be disciplined.
The Taliban and Al-Qaeda are loser organizations with a very short career span, as Bin Laden and his lackeys found out when we came and took them out.

YOU HAVE STARTED A WAR YOU WILL NOT WIN-the whole world is united against you now, and you WILL lose. We do not fear you, and we will NOT back down from you and your cowardice.
And we will NOT allow you to use our relations with Israel as a stepping stone or a scapegoat. Get over it now.

8 MILLION people are in America illegally, and they are avoiding taxes by handing over their businesses to the next of kin when they come off the boat-whatAmerica should have done, was make youpay your taxes IMMEDIATELY instead of a 9 year deferment period.
You make money in this country,laughing your asses off and then turn around tell us how much you hate the country. If you don't like it, LEAVE, and allow the rest of us, from all our respective cultures and backgrounds, enjoy it and try to get along.

Mr T couldn't have said it better one day on TV-he told a young black man to 'get off the white man's ass and get your own job'

Morgan Freeman,in his role as high school principal Joe Clarke, told his classes "If you fail in life, don't blame the black man, the white man, or any other colored man, blame YOURSELF"

And I'm telling you now, Heartbone-Don't blame ME for the system. I, like many other people, have been screwed by it,and we are all victims in one way or another.

And I am also going to give you very fair warning-don't push me into a racial corner again. You may be sorry to hear what I have to say the next time, based upon how you have already presented yourself to me.

I don't have a problem with you, not yet,
let's keep it that way, OK? Please.......

Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 10:07
Kain,
you are damn straight when you say that every TV advertisement makes MEN look stupid. I mean, what would society think of men if THEY sat on the couch all day eating chocolates and reading trashy true story romance novels while they wait for the laundry to dry?

When was the last time a man stood in
front of the mirror in his new dress and yelled
'Honey, do I look fat in this'?

One deodorant commercial in America (Secret) says
it's strong enough for a man but made for a woman This means that men smell stronger than women, and that women smell like a bouquet of flowers all the time, right?

Obvioulsly none of the writers for that commercial had to sit next to a streetcorner whore in a short skirt inside a movie theatre after she's been out for the night earning her living to put food on her table.......


Women may have the eggs,
but WE have the baby batter , and unless a woman can get pregnant by herself, WE are the ones who supply the sauce so they can turn out one kid after another, so they can feel like a real woman and collect welfare to the tune of 300 dollars (America) for every baby they pop out (in the case of welfare hogs and your basic slobs.....)

This is NOT to say that ALL
women are like that, I will point that out now.

But when will men be respected, instead of being made out to be ignorant, hairy chested relics who prefer a club and a loincloth and an axe fashioned from black flint when they sit in front of the TV on Superbowl Sunday?

Will we ever see a comercial for
men shoing WOMEN how to use somethiing? Probably not.

Manly, yes, but I like it too.....hey no big deal lady. if you like Irish Spring bar soap, go for it, but don't make me out to be stupid and smelly because I'm a MAN!

You're right, Kain, noone said anything about the hypothetical Dell commercial because none sees the potential impact it possesses.

The day women realize thay they too can be just as foul mouthed, filthy, and attitude laden as we are, then justice will be served. Until then, just remember that everything is the MAN'S fault.

BTW-my ex wife's other car is a broomstick........

Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 10:42
OK, folks,
I told Heartstone my point of view, agreed with Kain that men are made to look stupid, and reminded Heartstone that a nation or a people's past cannot speak for the future, that the whole of society should not be held responsible for the actions of a few.

I also reminded Heartstone, that based on his view that 2/3 of America will be right when NON-whites take over, that I had reservations.

Based on his POSSIBLE race and the attitudes\solutions that extremists within those racial makeups have resorted to in the past, I presented him with my own rebuttal and presented him with facts he may not want to hear.

I am not racist, nor have I been, but when your hand is constantly forced, eventually you say things out of anger.
And I gave Heartsone fair warning not to rattle my cage again with racism and or one sided tactics.

The street runs both ways,and that is final...........

I came to this board with the notion that ANYTHING could be talked about as it said in the general description that this WAS allowed.

I AM sorry if I offended the majority of people here, but I also see that some have agreed with me as well-agree, or DIS-agree, that is your right and I do not hold it against you.

You love your respective countries as much as I love mine, and NOONE wants to believe that their leaders\laws are wrong.

I respect that.

This whole thread has gone a million different directions, some brought on by me and some by others. All I ask you to do, as I have done, is to realize that not everyone is ALL bad.

America has a lot of good things and a lot of hard working people of all backgrounds and races, but it also has BAD people of all backgrounds and races too. I was addressing the BAD, not the good.

SO if we may just lay this aside, and get on, it would be greatly appreciated.

From now on, unless someone
calls me on something directly, I will not reply.

Fair enough?

And if any of you still think I'm racist,
then ask me about the time I was an EMS technician, who helped a 3 year old Chinese boy off the ground and onto a gurney after his neighbor's pit bull nearly killed him as a result of a hate attack, after a fight between the little boy and the neighbor's son.

If you had seen what I had seen that day, you wouldn't be laughing.
And it was the reason I left EMS because I couldn't stand to look at something like that again.....nothing funny about a baby with half his face laying on the ground like
a blood covered Hallowen mask while he screams for his life..... do any of YOU think it's funny?

haggisman
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 15:40
True, Haggis Man, but it STILL happened...and where there is smoke, eventually there will be fire. The door has always been there waiting for someone to open it. yes the incidents aren't as many in Europe, but it STILL happened.

Yes it did happen, but there is no fire in europe and unless guns become legal there never will be. There are currently 288,760,051 people in the USA, that means 11550 people would have died this year due to guns, even more if the stats had changed. I doubt every single one of these deaths were on TV.

And I never said our own gun laws were better than yours, Haggis Man-I am just saying that irresponsibilty is the key word that ties every incident together-if people would follow the rules, there wouldn't BE a problem.

How could a responsible person ever have a gun, a weapon that kills and maims thousands of people each year.

Obvioulsy, England and America have not forgotten the past because we have not repeated it.

lol, how would you know if you hadn't repeated the past if you had forgotten it.

The street runs both ways,and that is final...........

You seem to forget who laid down the tarmac, in my opinion if there was anything to blame it would be religeon, but thats a topic for another day.

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Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 17:12
How could a responsible person ever have a gun, a weapon that kills and maims thousands of people each year

I've had them for almost 30 years, and I never hurt or killed anyone. All of my uncles were (and still are for the ones still living) great hunters. I don't hunt, I just shoot for target practice and socialization at my local rod and gun club, and I am so glad to be able to tell all of you that I hever NEVER had the occasion to use one on someone, and I hope I never do. I. MEAN. THAT.

As to my claim that America and Britian have put the past behind them, well we must have because we are pretty good friends you know. It takes a lot to forgive a nation that tried to make America theirs at one time. But we DID, and we're getting along fine, IMO anyway.

And I will tell you right now, Haggis Man, religion IS to blame to a point, because I am not a fan of any organized religion, I agree with you 200 %. A lot of cruel things were done in the name of Christianity, and on 9\11, false prophets declared their war in the name of Allah.

The massacre of the American Indian, as well as 9/11, happened because of extremists who wanted things their way, and who would take any and all means to achieve their ends.
And because they knew that there were those who wouldn't want it, they said it was God's will and sold it to everyone stupid enough to believe it, and then went to work.

I am no fan of organized or ANY religion, Haggis Man, and I am glad that we at least agree on that. Now if I could only get the Jehovah's Witnesses to stop coming to my door with those leaflets...
all religions are flawed, and no explanation in the world is going to excuse the victimizations which occurred with a certain church, and I will not name anyone because you know the religion of which I speak......

Anyway, forget it. Christmas is here and let's all forget about stuff-we said our points, we each have good points, and while we argue the world keeps turning anyway, nothing we can do about it.

If I haven't hurt anyone with my guns, then I must have obeyed the law and still do, and overall despite my opinions I'm a pretty good person. Only ever had ONE ticket in 22 years of driving, don't smoke, don't drink, no drugs, so I'm living pretty well. Oh well, see ya'!

Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 17:14
AND MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone!

actarus
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 17:19
-Now if I could only get the Jehovah's Witnesses to stop coming to my door with those leaflets

Amen!

Merry Christmas!

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Golgo13
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Posted: 24th Dec 2002 17:50
Thanks Actarus! Glad to see someone on this board dosen't hate me just because I have strong views. Not my fault that the world sucks, any more than it was for the first death by a gun.
But hey man, Merry Christmas too, and I like your icon, Atari was a cool system back in the day. I'd like to see 3D optimized remakes of Adventure, and Pole Position, and just for the hell of it, Circus Atari, just to see the guy hit the ground in true color and graphics!

I have the 3D Missile Command, and would like to see a 3D remake of Chopper Command and Starmaster too. It's all good stuff.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 02:41
can't say i hate you... however you do seem to have some jilted views on a couple of things.

Now i'm not sure how much you've actually seen of the UK, buht - i can't particularly say that the Americans are as well liked as they'd like to believe.
And if your going on the relationship of the governments, then i'd forget it because all the English politions are just stupid morons who never look at the big picture - which is why the economy is going down the tube and why they rely more and more on the EU and American nations.
They look into doing what will win them an election and if it doesn't then they think of a new way to BS the public and make it appear as if they're solving alot of problems when all they ever damn well do is create bigger problems for the future ... biggest right now is the Military Contractual Builders (e.g. BAe) and the Railway systems.

Given a chance, i can bet you a good million if Tony Blair thought it'd win the next election he'd bomb the states ... that is how stupid our government is!! (and trust me the choices aren't quite as simple and straight forward as the states governments cause there isn't a hell of alot they can do to screw things up quickly - although Mr. Bush is trying quite hard isn't he

The funny thing i feel is... is how americans seem to interpret their importance in the world, with phases suchas "oh we have the biggest armed forces"
well if you have the second largest and most rich nation in the world you can afford it, and it probably doesn't help that they very rarely see FRONT LINE combat - because £50 on the table says first to be sent in will either be a British or German force!

You want to stop teens and guys not blowing people away with guns, easi... take them away! you'll still get it, but it is unlikely anyone except crime syndicates will have them as if you impose an embargo kids can't afford black market prices and most stupid criminals won't be able to either!
it is far to easi to walk into a shop without a licence and purchase a deadly weapon, far far to easi - unless you're from a minority, like i dunno, Arab!
and i'm not just talkin about guns, i mean Katana blades - can slice through bone ... you don't even need a licence for one, just like go in say which one you want and bob's ya uncle!

If even guntax was raised to a price which made them overly expensive it would cut down on thier use because less people are likely to buy an expensive weapon!

Sexism is a prominant problem most with almost every Western countries, because adverts world wide pander to women ... you see and advert for a block and its like simple and to the point. Women ads they're made out to be super intelligent sucessful and have a background story.
Anyone seen those Tampax Mini or whatever the hell they are, where that guy things its a sugar packet... i mean HELLO!! what god aweful country sells suger in small cylinderial packets?? well possibly holland

Kinda sick to death though of hearing about Rasism from people that it has nothing to do with... seeing those people who play on this weakness the democratic system has with giving everyone a fair chance and in such making it extremely unfair ... and seeing americans thing everyone loves them.

Sorry but i mean most of ya'll are weird, ya'll think you won wars on ya own - when really there were 2 you were involved within, one of which you totally outnumbered the enemy and at the end of the day it was better to say fudge that than have our men be killed ... and the second you got your butts whooped so bad and shoved a powery tale about politics in the country.
Sorry but last time i checked when your at war with a country it doesn't matter what happens in thier government, you thought the land was yours went in and were slaughtered ran home with your tales between ya legs.

probably not a popular veiw, but i mean when the US broke free from England they caused themselves more trouble than they could handle ... one of which was the slaves.
If the states really wanted to learn they should have taken a page from thier ansestors, as the UK as a whole has had to accept ALOT of new people - was never dominated, but we've had all sorts here since recorded history in the country.

There is alot of bad bad water between all the nations of the actual UK ... but on the whole we all live quite happily together - possible exceptions of course here and there. For a small country and nation, hard to believe that at one point 100year past we own'd 40% of the world
for some ungodly reason the goverment keeps giving it all back to the actual nations
No more India, no more Aussie, no more South Africa, i mean geez next what do they wanna do give the north or england back to the Norwiegens?

sorry to rant but it piss's me off alot of whats going on with a nation that personally i have felt was and is the most remarkable for change.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 06:11
i can't particularly say that the Americans are as well liked as they'd like to believe.

i know were not liked... everyone hates us ^_^... guess you cant win em all... plus our government is crap and most people are racist... O_O... sucks to be an american...

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Golgo13
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 07:08
Whatever, just..........whatever.

Despite the thorough and stressful process I have put myself thru, still you all seem to think that every American you meet is a booze drinking gun toting redneck who steps on little animals and blows away whatever moves on his property.

Fine, I'll leave you to your opinions, because obvioulsy, none of you here are worthy enough or smart enough to get past the dog, and see that ONE American, myself, wasted a lot of time trying to tell you something you should know already, that not ALL of us are bad.

You want to be thought of nicely, well
then expect to return the favor, it's common courtesy.

But you can't see it that way, so just keep your heads up your asses where they belong. I never said that America came over to SAVE Europe, we offered our help against a common enemy and I was hoping that would have created a better friendship. We forgave you your debts to us after the war, helped rebuild you, but still it's 'screw you go home'. FINE...........

Next time a World War breaks out, and you are isolated and just about ready to surrender-change the name of your song title, because 'The Yanks AREN'T coming'.

I'm thoroughly ashamed of my heritage after today-I guess being of English descent isn't enough, huh? FINE.........

Bye everyone.

If you hear a gunshot, don't worry, it'll be me taking my life, because noone cares enough about me, as a person, or a citizen of the free world. And when you piss on my grave, don't forget to get it real wet, OK????

I told you I was lonely, I told you I was isolated, and yet you still hang me to the cross. OK then, but just remember that the last person who hung there died for all of our sins.....,and that He too, was murdered by other men as well.

I needed friends, I told you how upset I was with being alone, and yet all you do is crap on me, why did I ever come here?

The only thiing for me to do now,
is die-noone wants me right?
Good, now that that's settled...

Golgo13
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 07:11
Just wait for the gunshot.........and confirmation from the 6 O clock news................and yes, I AM serious. Thank you for your support.............

Puffy
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 07:49
calm down dude... ... ^_^ if you kill yourself you wont gain anything... and we all know not all americans are bad.. I AM AMERICAN... im not bad... but i dont think our morals are right...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 07:51
golgo... there is one thing to have strong opinions, its another to seem to place words within peoples mouths.

what has been said is that Americans need to humble themselves AS a nation and learn to keep their noses out of everyone elses affairs. Because trying to make the world just like home oftenly is UNWANTED and UNCALLED for.
Plus not to mention, I feel far safer at home ... i'm not likely to be herassed, shot, beaten, have my vehicle stolen every 10seconds (according to Alex i've got another car missing, which makes a grand total of 5now since moving there!) - i mean they DO happen in the UK.
However, i'd prefer to live in a country where everyone is actually accepted for who they are with trouble makers few and far between, ofently contained to a bad apple family in the area ... compaired to the states where they put a face on what everyone can do, if there is a law against it - lets alter the amendment to what we choose!
I mean you'd think after all the little touchups and alterations, how much of that constitution are they actually living to?
Where does it say "every american has the right to go abroad stick thier nose into other people affairs because they want to."? funnily enough musta missed that one myself. And the really annoying thing is, someone explain to me WHY they broke for independance again?

What the hell gives them the right 200odd years later to do the same to everyone else?
in the end everyone is an individual, and entitled to his or her own opinions ... however when you judge a country or even a person its based on your own memories of actions of similar people or even that person.

If you meet someone who is a known skirt chaser, but his wife doesn't know - you'd have to be pretty liberal minded not to actually dislike him simply for that. He could be the most charming, fun guy in the world ... but if he is doing something against YOUR ethics, you're not going to like him.

I think before ya'll go out preaching to "oh everyone should like us for what we've done" and "look at how democratical nations are the best".
What exactly HAVE the US done which has never been self sufficient ... "oh we won WW2 for you" erm no sorry you going in, in the final year when the war was as good as over, you mighta save the lives of a few million people and it wasn't until japan attacked a military naval yard that you decided you'd join in. And end it with them by dropping a weapon of mass destruction ontop the civil population - and government or not. You voted them in and you did have good choices - just too quick to pull the trigger and think about the consequences later!
"Oh we help by giving third world countries aid" ... well most of the European countries do - and America's Red Cross is one of the most appauling relief agencies.
"We want to be green, yet we don't want to do anything about it!" ... so what you like the planet, but not enough to change a small component in your car which would cost what $60 per car, to make them FAR greener?
You care enough that you don't care to protect many forrests or add taxes on cars which put out as much smog as 1950s factories?
"We always share our technology with are neighbours to ensure peace" ... Hmmm refresh my memory again, how many british engineer'd projects were developed faster, more efficiently and were being shared with the states - and upon completetion the US gain'd them immeditaly, then look at the relationship the other way around.
Anyone who looks into aviation history, will see the development patterns ... and it is sickening.

Sorry but you may love america alot - but on the whole the nation is ya gotta admit, shitty.
I'm not saying that the UK or EU is any better ... buht they're not plauged by the same problems.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 08:12
i dont love the us... its corrupt... it sucks... i see all the problems... but admit it... we do our share... just that our internal structure is based on fear... fear of anything... has anyone seen bowling for columbine... you gotta see it... =\ it will open your eyes... look at our news... always THIS PERSON DID THIS AND THEY HURT PEOPLE... blah blah blah... then in canada... right above us they have stuff like "new speed bumps"... =\ i hate how we are controlled... were like mindless slaves...

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actarus
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Posted: 25th Dec 2002 19:47
Darth:This is a consequence of being 1:the number one world power an 2:living at the age of global communication...The US's international flaws MAY be transparent but don't forget that corruption is in almost every system,and mindless slaves are much better described by countries run by despotsthan us...Every empire has it's decadence and sadly it's the US's turn now.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
Puffy
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 01:00
^_^ well you know the bible actualy forsaw this... i have a pic... it tells the book and the verse... when the village idiot will rise up and lead... what do you know BUSH!!! O_O oh well the mians think the world will end in 2012... (i have dyslexia... hehe sorry about my spelling)

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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 01:00
no strong dyslexia... it just shows up when im tired... and i got 5 hours of sleep... i usually get 13... ackem

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 04:23
mayan
yup 2012 ... and not so much like an ending, as a massive change. Could mean too many things but as the predictions spiked the world wars and the current devastations, quite hard to ignore that anything won't happen eh?

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 05:37
o_O they said that our tools will turn agaisnt us... our animals will start talking to us...and attacking us... and there will be a horrible storm... (suposidly what happened to them)

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haggisman
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 12:13
Darthpuff i think you have been watching terminator and reading animal farm too much

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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 12:49
^_^ ... might be the animal farm... O_O or the history chan... =\ or the science chan.. anything from discovery is good...

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heartbone
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 19:19
Pole Shift theories and maps -
[url]http://www.zetatalk.com/poleshft/p00.htm [/url]

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
haggisman
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 20:11
can i just say WTF?!?!

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Puffy
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Posted: 26th Dec 2002 23:31
^_^ heheh... the pole shift theory... that one sux... it will cause the next ice age... the earth is already gettin chubby around the center... messing up orbiting sat's... damn...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Dec 2002 05:55
polar shift theory is a very plausable one, especially due to the unbalanced nature of the earths axis ... it slips .005° each year south
which explains the freaky weather more than global warming, that isn't to say global warming isn't a problem - just don't think its the main contributer to the problems ... kinda the earths way of saying "oki heres a test, if you can survive millions dying and a nippy winter for a few decades then i'll think up another way to kill you - perhaps a new man eating wasp "

i wonder what would happen if everyone moved to a single point on the planet, you think if we all rocked like all 67biln of us we can spin the planet hehee
oki i think i need sleep, and sounds like puffy had a little too much whisky and rum over the holiday's

I remember a few christmas where a few favourite films seemed to blend into one - which scarily made alot of sense

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Puffy
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Posted: 27th Dec 2002 06:02
hehe... O_O ... raven so far we have recorded that the poles have shifted 11 degrees... the sux... the earth is going to kill us off... and thers only 8 billion people in the world...

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heartbone
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Posted: 27th Dec 2002 11:35
A Pole Shift movie next year. Wheee!

"can i just say WTF?!?!"

Wave The Flag? No need to give up.
Those Mayans were probably way off base,
and we will live for a very long time.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
Puffy
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Posted: 27th Dec 2002 12:11
oh yes "The Core"... that movie looks like pure shit... you know why... we have prevented every disaster that should kill us off o_O thats why were over due...

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