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Geek Culture / AMD or Intel - What should I buy?

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AtomR
21
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Joined: 4th Apr 2003
Location: Portugal
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 00:56
Hi,
I'm going to upgrade my computer. I have a P4 2.0ghz and would like your opinion on wether I should buy an AMD XP 3000 or a P4 3.0Ghz.

Is the AMD XP 3000, AMD's response to Intel's P4 3ghz? Can they even be compared? Why? Why not?

Are there any compatibility issues between amd's processors and DBPro?

Thanks for your help.
Ricardo

Take care
AtomR
Mnemonix
21
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Location: Skaro
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:05
afaik there are no compatability issues.
As to which one you should buy. I would personally get the AMD.

The 3d chat is coming...
In the meantime, come in the IRC. Ask me for details!!.
Zero Blitzt
20
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Location: Different Stages
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:07
I only use AMDs in my house.

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Come to #coding. We promise we wont kick you!
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AtomR
21
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:16
There was a time when I kept score of which alternatives to Intel were the best. Amd, cyrix etc. In fact I used to be very anti-Intel but for some reason I don't remember one day I bought an Intel celeron and kept upgrading to intel.

I'm leaning to AMD because of the price and because some friends of mine swear that they just don't crash (not sure how much of that is due to the motherboard rather then the processor).

Glad there are no compatability problems with DarkBAsic but regarding my first question. What is the AMD to buy in the same range as the P4 3Ghz?

Take care
AtomR
zircher
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Location: Oklahoma
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:23
I'm also a fan of AMD, stable and cheaper are two words that I like together when I buy my hardware.

That's not to say that I'm anti-Intel, it is just that I am not motivated to spend the extra money for just a few precentage points more performance.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Don Malone
21
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Joined: 27th Apr 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:39
Do AMD chips still run warmer than Intel?

It used to be suggested that extra fans or cooling was needed for AMD chips, right?

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
Ian T
22
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:41
AMD = stabler and cheaper. So many people have their Pentiums crash after being left on for a while, which granted isn't what most of them are made for, but the AMDs take a lot more abuse. I'm not really against Intel, but I prefer AMD for the quality .

Don Malone
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 01:46
I like my AMD 1800+ (time for an upgrade.)

It has been stable and reliable (and I have three fans on it.)

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
AtomR
21
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Location: Portugal
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 02:15
AMD it is then. Thanks.

Take care
AtomR
HZence
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 02:21
Quote: "So many people have their Pentiums crash after being left on for a while"


Really? That's wierd, I've never heard of any of those stories. That and I have a Pentium 4 processor that's actually nearing two years old, 1.6 GHz. I leave my computer on constantly, almost 7 days a week.

Hm.


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
MikeS
Retired Moderator
21
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Location: United States
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 03:20
I'd go with AMD. Nothing against Intel, but AMD has just been so good to me so far.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
MiR
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Location: Spain
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 04:08
Umm. I never knew the intels were unstable. Seems a bit strange that. I would go with the cheaper as there´re vertually the same.


A bargain at 900000€ second hand
Libera tu mente y te liberaras.
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 04:18
Niether processor is stable on the wrong chipset.
Stability wise, Intel are by far the best. I'm an avid AMD supporter and fan, but quite frankly Intel are FAR more stable processors under Windows/Linux Operating Systems. Especially when they're on Intel Motherboards!

I have and original Intel P2-266MHz on an Intel AL440LX board. I've put some of the most unstable hardware in that system (256MB Ram which claims it's 384MB and other such problematic hardware)... the System has never crashed on me since I bought it in '97.
And yes, i *still* use it today as a Solaris 10 server.

Generally speaking, Intels Processors are more stable, however they lack top-end speed. Even with SSE/2/3 most AMD Processors run quicker and with far less heat (making them far better suited to overclocking).

It is this less heat which is probably why most Intel Systems appear to crash more often now. Alot of companies throw in cheap heatsinks and fans, which honestly have no business being on processors as quick as they are.
As such when the processor gets to hot, it'll automatically reboot the system in order to cool itself.

Depending on what your planning on doing I'd say go with the AthlonXP. That said if you have the cash to afford a P4-3.2 then go out and buy yourself an AMD Athlon64 3000+ System instead.
They'll still cost you less, but the benifits are far greater, particularly if you can get you hands on a PCX Mobo.


John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:03 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2004 05:16
I once had a celeron based system and it was unbelievably slow Now I just stick with my trusty AMD processors, every year I upgrade it to about the 3rd highest model and I get a nice fast pc at a decent price. I have 2 AMD XP systems and they are as stable as my as my beautifully crafted table. My main work pc (3000 XP) used to get hot, but I just bought a nice big fan and it was fine

Kevin Picone
22
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Location: Australia
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:09
I dunno why anybody would want to leave their system running 24/7... Batch coding ? .. Statistically devices on stand by are now apparently one the biggest contributors to green house gas emissions. Here in Australia they changing the building code to accommodate the problem with houses having to include some type low current shut offs built in. So if you don't turn it off, your house will

As for stability of one set of components over another, it's difficult to say one is more stable because of cpu ABC then cpu CBA. There's going to be lot of contributing factors system to system. Not only mother board, Ram and cooling. But video, Sound etc , HD's through to power supply. One of the common issues we used to see while doing upgrades was unstable memory modules . Perhaps through over heading, or just their life span isn't what it used to be.

If i was going to upgrade at this point, I'd buy something that represents the best cost/performance ratio i can find. There's little point in paying a higher price ratio for a tiny performance boost over a cheaper alternative. So it's well worth looking into the performance ratings of your current system/cpu and what your upgrade options might well be. Can often be surprising.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic V2.21 (Out Now!)
Kevin Picone
22
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:15
You rebel.. That still doesn't explain why anybody would need to run their home PC 24/7..

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic V2.21 (Out Now!)
Don Malone
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:26 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2004 05:27
to Mister Mold Rat

Quote: "Who cares about the ozone? I don't."


But It's Wrong!!!


I always wanted to do that.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
HZence
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:27
I actually do it because the low humming sound helps me sleep better. Is that a sin?


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
tomazmb
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Location: Slovenia
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 05:43
Hello Kevin,

E-mule, Kazza, Winmx, e-donkey2000,.....

Have a nice day,

Tomaz

Why some people take programming so seriously ?
Kevin Picone
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Location: Australia
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 08:44 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2004 08:59
erm, 24/7 up time for file share.. only one thing to say about that... (cough) warez.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic V2.21 (Out Now!)
PiratSS
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 09:28
Dual Amd 64 bit owns. So I say go with amd.

Eric T
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Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 09:35 Edited at: 22nd Aug 2004 09:37
I just started running the AMD XP 64bit 3200+. Gotta tell you its amazing processer. Haven't had a heat problem while i was playing Doom 3 for about 5 hours (never went over 101.4 F). Only has 1 fan on the baby, although the case has 2 fans (XDreamer 2 by Turbo casehttp://www.xoxide.com/xiis.html) I highly recommend this processer.

Oh, just imagine what it will be when 64bit becomes more main stream .

Come join us in IRC #darkbasic on the irc.chattingaway.com
AKA: Tomassetti13 on LLRGT
AKA: Liquidz_Snake on IRC
GothOtaku
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Location: Amherst, MA, USA
Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 11:34
Personally, I only get Intel's unless I'm having more than one processor. I've had no problems at all with any of my Intel's (I use P4s, Xeons, and Itaniums on various machines at home and at work) but I've had heat problems with AMD. The only difference I've noticed between them is that if you're going to have a computer use two or more processors AMDs will out perform Intels always but otherwise I've noticed no performance boost using AMDs. Also, we've had problems with the new 64-bit AMDs at work (random system crashes, although this might be a software problem) but our old Itaniums work without a hitch. I also leave my computer on all the time (I run 2 game servers) running on a 2.8 Ghz Pentium 4 and have had no issue with it ever but my old AMD computer (which pretty much matched it) would slow down running many tasks in both Windows XP and RH Linux as well as BSOD-ing more (4 in 6 months vs. 4 in 1.5 years). Overall, I've found Intel processors to be more robust for single processor machines only reverting to AMDs for our clusters at work.
Ian T
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 11:52
I agree with uwdesign. No reason to leave a system up 24/7 unless it's a server or you're batching something. And no, warez isn't a good reason.

Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2004 22:56
amd

AtomR
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Location: Portugal
Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 02:05
I'm going for the AMD XP 3000+ Socket A - FSB333 with a Motherboard ASRock K7S8XE+ - ATA133.

I noticed that it says on the internet page of the store where I'm going to buy it that this processor works @ 2.16 Ghz. I already have a P4 2.0 Ghz. Will I have noticeble speed boost? Or should I just stick with mine for now?

Take care
AtomR
John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 02:57
Yeah, it's a shame people just read the clock speed, as it means they go and buy the intel.

Imagine it like a motorway, the pentiums have lots of little trucks going faster than the AMD trucks, but they are bigger

Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 04:01
Sort of bad analogy, actually. It's more like the pentiums have more wheels on their truck that turn faster, but it doesn't matter because the wheels are so bloody small.

AtomR
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 05:04
Exactly what I wanted to hear thx
I'm completely sold on amd.

Take care
AtomR
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 09:47
any predictions on when an fx-53 willbcome affordable?

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 12:25
The only difference I have seen from INTEL and AMD processors (when they are on the correct chipsets) is that they are very close to the same stability and performance. The only difference is that the P4 will not overheat and burn up though the AMD will. P4's throttle themselves back to keep from burning up and amd's pretty much run the same speed whether hot or not. This is why P4's get such a bad rap about underperforming and being less stable than AMD. Most companies put cheap fans on systems so the P4 runs a bit slower than it can run and the AMD's life is shortened a bit but it runs fast. Also most people do not believe in cleaning the inside of their cases out so both systems run hotter even with good fans and heatsinks. I personally own a P4 and Athlon XP and they are both comparable in speed as long as they are running cool.

Phaelax
DBPro Master
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2004 15:23
I bought one of the first Athlons. It's like a big sega cartridge, it was 500mhz. Then I had a 650 athlon, then a 700 tbird. Good processors, but I ended up with crappy boards. Raven is right, it's all about the chipset on the mobo. As for stability, some games don't like the Athlon MP chips when running two. If only running 1, it's ok. But games like UT2k4 didn't like my 2, so now I have a P4 2.8 prescott. DB always ran fine with them though, so no worries. Asus mobo with intel chipset. So far it's been my best system stability-wise (aside from the crappy integrated lan card, marvell who?) since my dual p133 socket 5.

As for overheating, the athlons i've seen run 20-30 degrees hotter than pentiums. I never had one burn up, but my MP's did overheat. A friend had a tbird that melted to his mobo. Only reason I haven't gone 64-bit yet is I'm waiting another year for it to be more common and more apps support it.

"eureka" - Archimedes
AtomR
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 00:43
That's why I'm not going with the 64 bit aswell. Don't wanna be a guinea pig of it. As a rule I never buy the latest technology because it always needs to be optimized and is always too expensive to be worth it.

I've heard that asrock is a branch of Asus. Is it true? The price diference between the two is not all that big so would I be a lot better served with asus then asrock?

Take care
AtomR
Arkheii
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Posted: 24th Aug 2004 19:57
I've seen my classmate's Athlon 1.4 overheat before, after a full day of work, and that's on a Thermaltake. My P4 1.5 runs on the standard fan but I have never experienced an overheat. I doubt the AMD (or any processor) can actually "burn," but compared to my P4, my classmate's AMD runs about 20*C hotter than mine. I _think_ RDRAM can overheat though, but I've installed heatspreaders over heatspreaders, so I haven't experienced any overheats. But most of you are probably DDR fanatics. Oh, and the motherboard matters a lot. This thing still outruns my other mate's P4 1.8 on an Ass-rock mobo I'm considering buying a Mac instead after high school though.

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