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Geek Culture / A few general questions if you buy software on-line

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 22:10 Edited at: 30th Aug 2004 22:11
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Hi all,

First of all - this post is NOTHING to do with TGC or our products, it's for my own personal use/interest/information gathering

Have you ever bought any software on-line for electronic download?

Imagine the product cost around $59.

If so could you give me your thoughts on the following:

1) Would it make any difference to your purchase if the company selling it had their POSTAL ADDRESS and a Voicemail/Fax number as well as an email address? I.e. do these elements, even if you'd never use them, add any extra "security" in your mind to the purchase?

2) Does having the software available on CD as well as downloaded make any difference to you?

3) If the manual for the software was relatively large (100+ pages) which format/s would you want to have it available in? HTML, PDF, Word Document, etc?

4) If the manual was available printed (for an extra cost) how many of you would find that useful? Or at least re-assuring, even if you didn't buy it?

That's all really - I'd appreciate your comments guys as I'm finishing off a new package I want to sell on-line (myself) and the above would help me gauge if its worth doing things like packaging, fax numbers, etc.

Cheers,

Rich
PS - Yes, I'm abusing my admin powers to make this sticky But it won't be up for long.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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MiR
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 22:34
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1)No. If it´s provided third party from TGC(a la Exgen)then that´s all the "security" I need.
2) No.
3)I haven´t got Word so PDF would be my prefered option.
4) I like manuals but an electronic download is an electronic download so it doesn´t matter.

Quote: "I'd appreciate your comments guys as I'm finishing off a new package I want to sell on-line"

Any clues to what it does? Something retro related I´m guessing.


A bargain at 900000€ second hand
Libera tu mente y te liberaras.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 23:09
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1. Yes - I only buy online from those that give postal addresses (and not PO BOX's).
2. Yes again - prefer things on CD
3. Either HTML or Word - PDF Reader is slow...
4. Would be a good idea.


Come to the UK Convention on the 23rd & 24th of October
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Van B
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 23:12
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1) Certainly, if I had'nt dealt with the company before, I'd get piece of mind from the additional contact information.

2) I'd much rather have a limited version download with the real deal arriving in the post - I'm a skinflint Scots git, If I'm paying to download something without an original CD, it better be good value for money.

3) PDF with a Reader installer, it's an accepted standard and great for people who like to print out their manuals at work (I'm not the only one ADMIT IT!). Although any sort of non-integrated manual, like a PDF on the original CD as opposed to an online help - is a pain in the ass.

4) I'd probably get the manual if I'd heard no horror stories about it and it was cheap enough, I consider myself a collector and for an extra £5 or so, a printed manual is an affordable luxury.


Van-B


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David T
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 01:05
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1) Yes definately.

2) It wouldn't make a difference if it was your standard shareware package, but if it was something more major (a la DBPro) then post.

3) Microsoft Help file, indexed (the standard really). When it's a computer manual it's more or less useless to have it in the form of a printed manual. Better in the standard .hlp or .chm form.

4) Too much hassle IMO to get it separately, if I wanted a printed manual etc. I'd get the boxed version.

This package sounds interesting

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 01:42
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1) Yes there's to many scammers out there.

2) Doesn't really matter i just burn everything i download to cd or dvd archives, probably the case with most people today.

3) PDF or html is fine to me.

4) Na, i wouldn't waste time buying a manual if it came with a PDF or some other form of manual, unless i was sure the manual was to go more into depth on covering the software why waste the money?
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the_winch
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:34 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 03:37
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1) It wouldn't make any difference to me. The time spent researching if the contact info was real I could spend researching how the company behaves in public and how they treated previous customers.

2) Depends on the copy protection used and the size of the program. I prefer cd as usually it means the copy protection doesn't need to connect to the internet so there is less danger that I won't be able to use the software in 5 years time.

3) I would prefer html but don't mind doc. If you have to use pdf at least have an alternative, the adobe viewer is a bloated POS and takes about 30 seconds to start up which is a pain if I just want a bit of info quickly.

4) I would find a proper cd and manual re-assuring but I doubt I would be willing to pay more than it cost to print and ship the manual.

shrink those dbpro exes
Create patches for your dbpro games
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Peter H
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 03:59
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3)HTML

"We make the worst games in the universe."
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Mussi
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 06:43
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how come you can sticky your posts like that and we can't

1. yeah, don't know why but it does.
2. not really.
3. HTML, easy to browse trough
4. I got this free printer at school so...



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adr
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 07:00
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Just some issues before I go into this. I'd look for reviews, adverts, the placement, the quality of the site. Anything that can get me thinking "this is genuine" I'll try to find it.

For example, selling the products through a site like this, you know it's likely to be genuine. I bought gile[s] because it has a community. I bought unwrap3d because the author moved from a freebie (lithunwrap) to a commercial product, which was highly recommended by several communities.

1) Yes definately. I thought it was UK law for a trading business to give a postal contact as well as telephone point of contact anyway?

2) I wouldn't necessarily go for a CD version over an electronic version, but having a boxed version available adds to the credibility of the company (they've approached a publisher).

3) As with 2 - a hard copy isn't necessary, but it's nice to know that it's available - security wise.

4) Not at all. I'd rather save the money and print it out at work


I think the taxis are bulletproof
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Preston C
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 07:09
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1) While I don't think I'd need a mailing address, I'd like to see one just incase.

2) Depends on the software. If its cheap and only does a minimal range of things, I can live without a CD (got a burner to take care of that). If its pretty expensive though, or its really good, I'd rather it come on a CD, just incase something happens.

3) I would prefer the manual in html, though PDF is usable, word would be a bad choice though, not everyone has word.

4) If it had a printed manual, it'd be quite useful to me. Always great not having to open up a new session of IE or whatnot just to check out a manual and having to switch back and forth between the two.

Cheers,
Preston


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 09:36
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Quote: "If you have to use pdf at least have an alternative, the adobe viewer is a bloated POS and takes about 30 seconds to start up which is a pain if I just want a bit of info quickly."


Yeah mine used to do that, then I ran this program and now it loads in a couple of seconds instead.

http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1069854583/1

All it actually does is move around the contents of the plugins folder, but the speed increase is dramatic because of it.

Quote: "1) Yes definately. I thought it was UK law for a trading business to give a postal contact as well as telephone point of contact anyway?"


Doesn't apply to sole traders and equally, no-one "polices" the Internet to tell site owners otherwise. My question was more aimed at figuring out if it would enhance trust in the site and it appears its about 50/50 at the moment.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
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BatVink
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 17:03
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1. I only buy if there is an address. My own site has no telephone number, and I get maybe 2 or 3 requests for a phone call per month. I give the number out as requested.
2. Some people don't mind snail mail. Around 5% of my orders are by cheque, even though I use Secured payment (WorldPay).
3. HTML, in a printable format
4. I like manuals.

BatVink
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Dave J
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 18:05 Edited at: 31st Aug 2004 19:11
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Quote: "First of all - this post is NOTHING to do with TGC or our products, it's for my own personal use/interest/information gathering"


So why is this thread stickied?

...Yes, that was the cheeky smilie.


Edit: Nvm, I just saw your 'PS', it was just as I expected.


"Computers are useless they can only give you answers."
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Freddix
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 18:14
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1) Yes, it show us it's a real company or someone real
I think the most important are the company name, afress and VAT number ( in france there are organism to verify if the company really exist or if it's a fake using company registration number )

2) Personally, I prefer CDRom packages because there is a book written ( it's easier to have a book and read it when you are using the software instead of switching from doc to software,etc ...

3) I prefer PDF because I think it's more adapted to Book format and, if we want to print there are less chances that PDF don't fit to pages format regarding to HTML ... Word is not bad too

4) If it's a really complex program, I'll pay for the extra book

Here are all I think Rich
I want to thanks you because, your questions will also help me for my future packages

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The Videogameaholic
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 19:20
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Much of this has been said before, but:

1. Postal Addresses aren't really necessary if there are other signs of credibility (such as an established community or a personal history with the company/product). Then again, you can never be too credible.

2. Personally I don't care if it is on CD too. If I want it on CD, I can burn it after I download it. On the other hand, (as been said before) it does add to your credibility (publisher stuff).

3. PDF has treated me well. HTML is nice too. I prefer an electronic manual as opposed to a physical one. An index is one thing, but being able to type in a search term and hit enter is much faster/easier.

4. Again, a printed manual would add to credibility, but like I just said, I prefer electronic. I suppose if I wanted to go to the beach and read then it'd look better if I had a real manual rather than a printed out PDF...but if I cared about how I looked I wouldn't be reading a manual at the beach.

Side note: I recently bought DBPro Online. I used DarkBASIC way back at version 1.06 (the last real free version) and then 1.07 had the 500 use limit or whatever. I just checked back and saw the deal where you buy DBPro Online and get a free copy of DarkMATTER so I went for that.

RMPVG (Real Men Play Video Games)
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IanM
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Posted: 31st Aug 2004 21:57
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1) No to the address. Anyone trying to scam you wouldn't put their real address anyway, so it doesn't mean anything really.
Telephone numbers are different, but you have to think about whether you want someone phoning you all of the time at their convenience and not yours.

2) No. I can always put it onto CD myself.

3) Any format really as long as it is searchable/indexed.

4) Really depends on the product. I'd buy a reference book such as the up-and-coming DBPro reference, but not a simple guide book.

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Philip
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Posted: 1st Sep 2004 22:27 Edited at: 1st Sep 2004 22:28
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1) If it is a company incorporated in England and Wales then under the Companies Act it must include certain specified details in all stationery. I believe this also extends to online web pages and other advertisements. These details include the Company's full name, its place of registration (i.e. England & Wales), its registration number and its registered office address. Stationery must also either include the names of all the directors or none of them.

Failure to comply with the above is a criminal offence, although rarely enforced in practice.

And, yes, having an address and contact details does add security. I would never buy anything from anyone who only quotes either a hotmail.com address and/or a mobile phone number.

If there is anyone out there who would buy anything from a guy quoting only a hotmail.com address please get in touch with me ASAP. I have a bridge in London to sell you.

2) Depends on the size of the software.

3) HTML or Word. I don't like PDF - bad on the eyes.

4) I would find it reassuring.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Ian T
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2004 00:47 Edited at: 2nd Sep 2004 00:51
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1) Yes, it would. I'd feel considerable extra security. My parents probably would too, which counts 'cuz I buy things online through them .

2) No. It makes me think 'Ooh, so they've got CDRs' actually, which is really probably unfair, but it certainly doesn't make a positive change. On the other hand, if it came in a fancy DVD case, I'd probably be tempted to buy the 'real' version of a product that costly.

3) HTML, absolutely. I'm sick of .pdfs as are most people I've talked to. They're bloody inconvinient to view in a web browser, take absolutely too long to download and are frustrating to browse. Everyone can view HTML, it's fast, and Microsoft Word can open it. What's not to love?

4) I'd like a printed manual. I have a thing for actually having a manual in my hands, not just a PDF (I hate them as previously mentioned) on my hard drive. It's sort of like the satisfaction you get when you buy (that's right munchkins, not warez) a new game and get to look at the manual and the map and the CDs and everything. I'd also find it reassuring.

In case it'd help, I've bought four electronic products online at this date and time, and purchased many CDs straight from developers (IE no publisher to do fancy packaging).

Hope this helps .


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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spooky
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2004 05:20
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1) Yes. I am very wary of companies that are scared to show a contact address. Not bothered about Fax numbers as their use is declining anyway. I would also prefer the email to be a proper domain email rather than a hotmail or freeserve address as that makes it sound like a kid running a business from his bedroom.

2) I like to have something I can touch and feel when I buy stuff so I can see where my money went. If product is cheap, like NG, then I am quite happy to just have whatever I can download, but for $59 I would like to have a CD. Also helps when the company goes bust and you can't redownload package and you couldn't be bothered to burn original download onto a CD.

3) I like compiled CHM's like the one on the PHP site for large help docs as they are searchable and easily navigable. HTML is ok but for large docs with images it will never paginate properly on different printers and will probably be made of numerous HTML and image files which make storing it more of a pain. PDF's are great but are a pain to update and acrobat reader is getting more annoying with each new release. Good thing about them is everything stuffed in one nice big file and you have complete control over the output.

4) Depends on what the software is. If it is like a programming language reference guide, then I want a printed one so I can read it in bed or on the train to learn it over time without being in front of a PC. If however it is like a game manual that you may only read once or twice, then I'm not bothered as I would just print out the interesting bits. So long as there is a nice cutdown summary bit in the manual that can be printed on a few sheets of A4 then that's ok by me.

Quote: "PS - Yes, I'm abusing my admin powers to make this sticky But it won't be up for long."


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1tg46
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2004 08:40
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1)It would reassure people's minds even if they trusted the company anyway.
2)I like having both available, and both at different costs.
3)PDF, DOC, and CHM are all convenient as long as it was compressed.(For those who have dial-up )
4)I love the idea of that, getting an extra DBP manual really helped with programming when I bought it from here.

I would also like the idea to have the download available at purchase, and also get the CD by mail. That way I don't have to wait over 6 weeks to get the product I would just have to wait for the CD and manual.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
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