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3 Dimensional Chat / XSI Foundation Under $500!

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BHoltzman
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Posted: 4th Sep 2004 06:26
For anyone interested in this high-end modeling/animation/texturing program it now comes with all the tools you need to create top quality 3d resources for your games. For now the $500 version includes over 50 hours of video tutorials for free. And the Foundation version of XSI is not crippled unlike some of the other entry level modeler/texturer/animation programs available.

If anyone has ever wanted access to arguably the best 3d resources creation solution available, then this is your chance.

The Deal:
http://store.softimage.com/store/Products/Details/default.asp?fam=false&ITEMID=197&lang=en

A free 30 trial:
http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/v4/foundation/Default.asp?bhcp=1

Some of the products made with XSI:
http://www.softimage.com/Community/Xsi/Mag/CS/default_v4.asp

There is an inexpensive work-flow you can use for XSI to Darkbasic Pro. That's XSI to Milkshape to DBPro. Or you can use a more expensive work-flow XSI to Deep Exploration to Darkbasic Pro.
BHoltzman
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 07:11 Edited at: 5th Sep 2004 07:12
The $200 worth of free training is only a temporary offer. Anyone who's thinking of getting this deal should act sooner rather than later on it.
BHoltzman
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 01:44
This is possibly the best deal around today. It shocks me that it's generated no discussion at all. Isn't anyone here interested? Or am I just waisting my time telling the DB/pro community about it?
BHoltzman
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 06:44
Alright, I'm waisting my time with this community then. I do have more important things to do with my time.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 20:14 Edited at: 8th Sep 2004 20:17
Heh... most people debate about spending $20 on Milkshape mate, here really isn't the best place for it.

I'd get it but i spent somewhere close to $11,000 last year on Softimage|XSI Advanced 3.0
Took the free updates downloadable from the site

Something weird I've noticed is very few people seemed interested in the free version, even though it comes with a Half-Life/Half-Life2 MDL Exporter.
You'd think more people would want a professional tool, completely free which exports to a format which works nicely in Dark Basic Professional.

Then again I always said this community is just plain weird.

[edit-]
Forgot to mention, you put up XSI->Milkshape->DBP
XSI actually comes with a DirectX Exporter built-in, in fact further to that end it actually has a Shader .FX Material + DirectX Exporter.

Which means you can export models with your FX Materials and it saves all the information required internally within the DirectX format which iirc Dark Basic Professional supports the automatic loading and setup of.

So Shader FX capable models by simply loading them, which is quite snazzy.
Just a pitty I hate modelling in it heh


Cian Rice
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 06:46
Where can I get this free Xsi version?? Does it animate? Cuz that' really what I need.

Got anime?I do.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 18:48
erm... can't you just follow the links above and look for yourself?


Cian Rice
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Posted: 9th Sep 2004 20:39
So the free version is the Half life 2 Exp?

Got anime?I do.
zircher
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 04:56
The student/teacher permanent license version for $295 looks sweet. Comes with a training DVD as well.

http://www.softimage.com/Products/Xsi/v4/educational/student-teacher.asp
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
Lascerus
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 17:32
Quote: "Forgot to mention, you put up XSI->Milkshape->DBP
XSI actually comes with a DirectX Exporter built-in, in fact further to that end it actually has a Shader .FX Material + DirectX Exporter.

Which means you can export models with your FX Materials and it saves all the information required internally within the DirectX format which iirc Dark Basic Professional supports the automatic loading and setup of."


Is this availale in the XSI Essentials as well I cant seem to find that info...cause the essentials version is only $1995.
Nazgul
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 02:22
the xsi x exporter is available freely for Foundation version. I have it at home now and works great in my x viewers.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
BHoltzman
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 05:48
I have XSI 4 advanced and it didn't come with a .x exporter. But the exporter is available on XSI Net as an addon. It took me a while to find it.
Nazgul
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 08:01
yup..

I had some issues to find it , too.

It works perfect with Foundation. It loaded just the same in Ultimate unwrap as x file..provided the display glitch in Ultimate Unwrap for xweighted models, that does not affect the file.

And also in other x viewers.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 01:42
Quote: "I have XSI 4 advanced and it didn't come with a .x exporter. But the exporter is available on XSI Net as an addon. It took me a while to find it"


my copy of 4 Advanced came on 2 DVDs, 1 of which was XSI plus alot of plugins which were part of the Advanced addon pack (which included dotXSI SDK where the exporter is from), 2nd was purely tutorials.

both discs were completely full (or as close to), part of the 'I am 4' pack. i'm pretty sure that's the one retailed generally though.


BHoltzman
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 03:12
Mine came on 3 disks. I'm not sure if they are dvd's or cd's plus the 5 tutorial dvds and the principles dvd. Maybe I need to look at the dvds more carefully? I might be missing something. So there were 9 disks total. Most, if not all of them dvds.
LadyTech
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 05:04
After finally getting some information from SoftImage about XSI Foundation, it looks like I'll be leaning toward Hash's Animation Master. It seems that you need to get at least Essentials ($1995) in order to even start doing anything useful. Foundation is just a taste of the software, stripped pretty bare of necessary functionality. The only real issue I'll have with Hash's A:M is exporting in 3ds then converting to .x.

Am I wrong in my quick research here?

" Base 8 is just like base 10 actually... If you're missing 2 fingers! " - Tom Lehrer
Renegade
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 08:12
A:M is more for cut sence.
Its not the best program for game content. I thing
that XSI Foundation or truespace are much better then A:M
for games.
zircher
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 00:17 Edited at: 25th Sep 2004 00:18
I've got an earlier version of Hash Animation Master. It's almost if not totally unusuable for game development. One, it uses B spline meshes for modelling, they need to be converted to fixed polygon mesh when exporting to X. Unless it has changed, animation exported to .X is ultra bloated. Basically, the whole scene is copied every frame and the result is massive files. Again, it is not suitable for most games.

It's a nice program, but save it for pretty pictures and not game models.
--
TAZ

"Do you think it is wise to provoke him?" "It's what I do." -- Stargate SG-1
LadyTech
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 01:03
Thanks Zircher, I didn't know about the ultra bloat. I knew about the bspline issue though. I figured export to 3ds then convert in another software.
Now I'm looking at Renegade's suggestion and comparing XSI Foundation win TrueSpace 6. I had been told by my fellow workers not to consider TrueSpace, however I went ahead and downloaded their Free version of GameSpace to check out the interface. It's a little odd. Of course the 30 day trial of XSI feels strange too. I see that TS6 doesn't rape your wallet like XSI does for plugins.

By the way, I was raised on the 3D Studio 3.0 (DOS), and was more or less forced to give it up when switching processors. 3D Max and I are always at odds, so I figured I needed a change. So I have been out of any real modeling for a few years.

After a day of playing with each, it looks like I'm leaning toward TrueSpace 6 at the moment. It can change as I get used to the interfaces. I'm still dissappointed at XSI Foundation's lack of functionality though!

" Base 8 is just like base 10 actually... If you're missing 2 fingers! " - Tom Lehrer
Lascerus
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 05:21
I once asked which was better lightwave 3D or 3Ds max....and lightwave 3d won due to all evidence collected...then I heard about xsi's foundation\essentials.... not that much difference in price...Confusion has me once again...some reasons i tried both and like both....any help on choosing please..?!
Peter H
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 05:50
oooo....never seen this modeler...i will have to try the trial and see if i like it

"We make the worst games in the universe."

Renegade
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 03:09 Edited at: 26th Sep 2004 03:10
LadyTech in case you will decisited to go with TS6.6
do remember that they have sales and you should wait for a sale
that fit for you and if you download gameSpace light so there
is a series of videos that might help you here and here

The first is for gameSpace and the second is for trueSpace
but since the programs are the same you should watch everything
Nazgul
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 20:28
the xsi x addon is somewhere hidden at their site, is not easy to find.
but is free.

Hash am has been used for realtime games. I wouldn't advice it for that...splines based thing..you can't play with smooth shading inside th esoftware really...the workaround is import -or make there- a low poly model forcing all the corners to peak instead of the standard curved thingy. But u see then as solid faces, actually. And not exactly the same.Obsidian games sell an x plugin that is proved to work quite nicely.

I don't think is ideal, but in some cases, ie, someone that mainly is gonna do much hi res, but some low pol, could buy it.

My personal choice is XSI foundation -yep, it has all I need for any game task- Is hard and complex to learn, but just for the everlasting reason: like blender -but no so much- is different to other UIs. And in more range than Blender, is a very, very in depth and advanced tool...any advanced package is complex to learn. IE, I learnt Character Fx in hours.

After that, my second choic is Blender.


of course, my favourite choice would be Max7 and latest character studio 4.x, no bundled with max, not like before.

But hey, I'll never have that money.

Ts is ~ XSI Foundation in price. Hash is 299$(but u'll want to add the cost of the obsidian AMTEX plugin for x files). max is 3.500$
Blender is free (what costs is pain to learn, and it has some features out: for instance, in character animation, XSI is way better.)

TS UI is somehow quicker to learn. I have purchased ts 4.3 since sometime when the 79$ price offer was.
One thing I love of it is its great booleans. I don't like its...er...ehm...undo...
But yep, is quite intuitive and has some advanced modelling tools, and helpers, even 4.3 has many of them.

TS 6.6 I think even requires you to buy the gamepak if you want to export bones and weights.

Also, I don't like it's control of weights. To do really good low pol animation, you strongly need to work at vertex level. Well, as far as I tested in every ts new version -I'm that fan of testing- it has tendons and muscles, kind of envelopes, but actually a lasso selection or weight painting solution with numeric input of weights...

The way I'd deal with it in ts will require anothe rplugin (ts ones advantage:they're cheap) a 10$ paid by paypal called skin modifier. The name seems be given in purpose. Is somehow a simulation of the wonderful Max skin modifier (I like it since Max5) .And gives you the control needed.
So, if I would have purchased TS instead of XSI Foundation, I no doubt would buy that cheap one skin modifier, and the x ful export one. As the included native, is dx7 I think. At least no bones and weights+animation. there was that truex one, but I tested with ts 4.3 -reason I bought it mainly- and it did not performed the same once exported...not sure if was a tendons modifier problem...

Gamepace maybe a better deal for games, as it comes with the x export, and I think is finally a good one, but not sure in this point. There have been some problems with exports, as u see in their forums.

XSI ripped stuff...hmm...hair rendering for AVIs, etc...advanced cloth, advanced rigs. But XSI bones and joint pinning is already better than anything I have seen till now, except max character studio, to my liking at least.

I mean, Foundation is usable for games, perfectly.

BTW, imo is quite harder to learn than TS.
But fo rthat they are giving away 5 DVDs...

I think they have made a great move.

But I am not a fanantic of any tool.

I know I perfectly coul do only with blender (Now that I can handle it. I just wanted some more char animation power and purchased then xsi) , perfectly with gamespace, and even with hash am, provided training my self in getting used to how the flats will behave in smooth..something I often already do while in modelling in Wings3d.

I'm quite against the idea of thinking that a package is totally horrible...

I don't like the char animation tools of TS, I hope they improve them seriously, but i like it's way to guess the correct position of bones inside body as you rig. The actual building of skeleton could be way improved, the handling of bones for animation also, and the weights...what I have said. But other nice thing it has (I tend to like ts features , but not the thing as a whole, it suits me as I use many tools in a project.) as nice, is it has bone pinning.Not joint, but a full bone (2 joints).Is better only joint, but is something (you could also make a very small bone to be the pinned one) Way better is XSI solution for all this.

BTW, as I said, ts looks mor einmediate to learn. I dunno how unexperienced enough 3d users would deal with a package like XSI or Blender. I love them both, but I don't know...

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
LadyTech
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Posted: 29th Sep 2004 08:54
Thanks Renegade and Nazgul. I had a couple of days to play with XSI and was then called out to Long Beach CA to take care of a networking problem. It's fixed enough that I now have internet access from there, which is where I am at the moment.
I don't like that my 30 day trial of XSI is wasting away here. But hopefully I will get enough playing with it to be more comfortable with the interface. I'm still about a month out from making a firm decision on what to purchase.
I did try Blender for awhile and gave up fighting the UI, not to mention the speed of the UI. Played around with OpenFX also. It also has limited usefulness.
I figure at this point I'll just have to create the same small project in each and see how it turns out.

" Base 8 is just like base 10 actually... If you're missing 2 fingers! " - Tom Lehrer
Renegade
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Posted: 29th Sep 2004 09:27 Edited at: 29th Sep 2004 09:28
LOL Nazgul you convinced me to take a look at XSI
I tried to use XSI EXP but I have a problem with it
for some reason. I must say that XSI website suck
I tried to find more information on the software and all I got
was 3 small paragraph, I also tried to ask for help and I can't
since its EXP ect.

I got to say that what you said about trueSpace x exporter
got me worry. Does it has the same problem with 3DS exporter?

Do you know if Softimage allow discounts for users with a other 3D pack?
Nazgul
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Posted: 29th Sep 2004 18:56
the truespace truex plugin had that problem, not sure is of teh plugin, or problem is in the way ts traslate the tendons-etc weights...

3ds? you mean 3ds max? or *.3ds format? The format does not support even bones, so , neither weights.

Max export of x files is very good, if you asked that.
I used at jobs. is just too expensive for me. The 500$ for xsi is my limit...

I'd better put you on track on where the x exporter and importer are...Just to mention it works perfect for me, the exporter. (I haven't tried, but if the importer imports weights, that'd be much more that is available in other packages...u could translate anims done in max!)

Here:
http://www.softimage.com/xsinet/L02_main/L02_main_conv.htm


The problem you may find with xsi trial, purchased , hl2 or exp, is...resolution. you really need to work at hi res, the menus are not thought for low res. I'd say, with shortcuts, I can work more or less even at 800x600, but is uncomfortable. There was a fix to download somewhere...these guys seem to used to do th eproduct for ppl with huge monitors

I'd advice a good 19 or 17" monitor, capable to do 1280x1024 at 85 Hz.(for your eyes!)

It recomends 1280.

"Do you know if Softimage allow discounts for users with a other 3D pack?"

i don't know. I only needed the x exporter, as the tool is very complete and solid , already. And the x exporter is free. Must be installed as "addon", inside XSI.
Is not an easy package to learn, by far.
I learn all stuff guessing. But with this one, I guess I'll have to do what i did with blender: look well at the doc-help. Luckily, the dvds training will come really handy
Haven't had time to dedicate much time to this new baby...

I think TS is very good, but I did not like the undo problem, neither the way it handles char animation, nor the fact no free or native x exporter working well...
BUT IMO, is too a good package. And easier.

http://www.freewebs.com/sysiphus/<--3d fight model there
Renegade
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Posted: 30th Sep 2004 02:02
Quote: "The problem you may find with xsi trial, purchased , hl2 or exp, is...resolution. you really need to work at hi res, the menus are not thought for low res. I'd say, with shortcuts, I can work more or less even at 800x600, but is uncomfortable. There was a fix to download somewhere...these guys seem to used to do th eproduct for ppl with huge monitors"


Thank you me problem solved I think
(In the last time the problem happend again after some time
so we will just have to wait and see) but I must say that this
resolution problem is really irritating :\

I hate the undo it TS also but they should improve it.
BHoltzman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2004 05:54
I've been working with both the XSI DVD training and the manual. What I've noticed time and time again, is my understanding of XSI is so much better when I take the time to read the manual. The DVD's help with learning work-flow and overview level information. But the manual gives you all the in program tools plus the background on how and why it's used. That's why the manuals are over 10,000 pages long. (I just did a tally of the non html manuals)
Peter H
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Posted: 1st Oct 2004 02:54
hhmmmm......................downloading the trial today...

if i REALLY REALLY like it i'll get it...just because it looks so cool

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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