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DarkBASIC Discussion / Would like some basic instructions

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Kequor
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 09:07
Okay I'm proboly going to look like an idiot, but the reason I bought darkbasic is because of a 3D rpg I came up with and wanted to make. So I think I'll start now. Now I am not asking for your code. I find that the best way to learn from code is to code it yourself. All I would like are some basic instructions and some examples. Like where do I start. All I got now is the storyline.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

Skeletor
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 09:58
Start small, your never gonna make a RPG for your first game. Try pong or something.

Also, I dont think there are many RPGs out there written in DB/DBP


http://www.angelfire.com/games5/db_games/
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 12:05
You have a storyline, good. Now design the rest of the game. I know since plot is such an important part in RPGs it's easy to forget the rest of it. You will find life much easier if you put down EVERYTHING on paper before you even touch the computer.

What you need to plan:
Storyline(done, but later you'll need exact script/dialogue and any dialogue tree diagrams you'll need)

Battle system-you can't just say, "it will be turn based/realtime", write out all the math and get it figured out how it will work at each and every point in the game

Statistics-all RPGs have player statistics, this will go in flow with the battle system, but there may be statistics you don't use in battle

Maps-mucho mucho grid paper maps, ever seen those crazy guys who map out huge crazy Dungeons & Dragons campaigns? Be like that.

How will the player get into combat sequences?-Zelda style? Japanese random tile style? On screen enemies that lead to turn based battles a la Lufia 2? Something even more complicated?

All Quests-you need to plan out all the quests you will initially have in the game, you can always add more, but be sure to start with a good selection of quests, side quests and plot quests.

When you do get to finishing it, be sure to pay particular attention to the dialogue. The most influential part of an RPG is dialogue. Dialogue advances the story, why? Story is all about the characters. Have characters that are gradually introduced and have distinct personalities, these personalities will be presented through the dialogue.

Halfway through the game the player should run into a situation where they see something's about to happen, and they might be able to guess how a particular character might react to the situation. The character should react in a way that would fit their personality. Every once in a while throw in a few scenarios where the character doesn't always do what the player thinks they will do.

Also, when designing the more intricate plot be sure that your characters grow depending upon the obstacles put before them that stop them from reaching their goal. This keeps the player interested. If RPG characters always reacted the same way it would get boring. This might contradict what I said before, but their different actions are a result of previous experiences, so the player should be able to follow what is going on in the character's mind and at the same time get a fresh experience with each new scenario.


Even if you're making an "american" RPG (one that focuses on playing your own character and leveling up and getting a bastard sword or something), adding an immersive story can add huge value to your game.

I know you probably wanted programming advice, but the most important part of an RPG is planning.

...I also noticed I dragged on about the story, and since this is your first big game you might want to scale down a little bit to get the hang of the technology. That's all good. Keep the idea of developing an engrossing profession story in mind though as you expand your horizons.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 13:32 Edited at: 8th Sep 2004 02:56
Quote: "
Battle system-you can't just say, "it will be turn based/realtime", write out all the math and get it figured out how it will work at each and every point in the game

How will the player get into combat sequences?-Zelda style? Japanese random tile style? On screen enemies that lead to turn based battles a la Lufia 2? Something even more complicated?

All Quests-you need to plan out all the quests you will initially have in the game, you can always add more, but be sure to start with a good selection of quests, side quests and plot quests.

When you do get to finishing it, be sure to pay particular attention to the dialogue. The most influential part of an RPG is dialogue. Dialogue advances the story, why? Story is all about the characters. Have characters that are gradually introduced and have distinct personalities, these personalities will be presented through the dialogue.

Halfway through the game the player should run into a situation where they see something's about to happen, and they might be able to guess how a particular character might react to the situation. The character should react in a way that would fit their personality. Every once in a while throw in a few scenarios where the character doesn't always do what the player thinks they will do.

Also, when designing the more intricate plot be sure that your characters grow depending upon the obstacles put before them that stop them from reaching their goal. This keeps the player interested. If RPG characters always reacted the same way it would get boring. This might contradict what I said before, but their different actions are a result of previous experiences, so the player should be able to follow what is going on in the character's mind and at the same time get a fresh experience with each new scenario."

I already had that figured out and planned. I need help with code. As I said before just basic instructions and mabye a few examples.

Battle system:Like in Japanese rpgs.
How will the player get into combat sequences?:Japanese random tile style, and the mode will change into battle mode like in Japanese rpgs.
Also as for traveling beetween different areas it will be a world map like Japanese rpgs.
Stats will be like in Japanese rpgs, excpet you don't have mp you have to use hp.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Sep 2004 16:53
Okeydokey, you've described the battle system. Now you need to figure out the math.

Instead of
Quote: "How will the player get into combat sequences?:Japanese random tile style, and the mode will change into battle mode like in Japanese rpgs."


Get deeper, like:
Quote: "How will the player get into combat sequences?: Combat events will be similar to that of Japanese RPGs. For every X number of UNITs the player moves across a dungeon there is a X% chance they will get into a battle. There will be an array containing data for every monster it is possible to encounter in a particular area. The index will be an identification number for the monster. The first X randomizations will decide how many monsters there will be(each randomization will be 0 or 1). The next set of randomizations is dependent upon how many of the previous randomizations returned a 1. The program will loop through each of the "true" randomizations and randomly pick a monster from the array of monster IDs.
The first set of elements in a monster's array is the HP range, their HP will be determined randomly within a range of values defined by the aforementioned element of the array. This will continue for each statistic (Strength, Dexterity, wutevah else), and each statistic range will be another element in the monster's array. Next is the initiative check......"


If you've already got that far, then you get five bucks man. Otherwise, that's the next step. Doing this will make programming a whole lot easier, because it will already be defined in prose for you.

Of course, this may be what you're looking for, if so then me for telling you to do this, in the quotes is a good example of random combat sequences.
To get ranges save everything as a string, then read each character in the string without surpassing the string length until you come a "-" or a "." or whatever you decide. Save it as a new string without the "-/." and convert that to a float or int. Then start reading one space after the "-/." and repeat the process.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
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Don Malone
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 01:25
I am impressed with that level of thought and I agree that that is the best way to go about the design process. The more defined you can make the operation the easier it is to define and narrow down the programming aspect.

Any problem can be broken down making the overall design and programming simpler and easier to figure out. You may not have the cleanest code but you can have functional code and if properly commented you can go back and clean it up and make it more optimized.

If you have not already check out the tutorials (I always recommend the Binary Moon Tutorial) and check out the commands list under the Dark Basic help menu to see what commands are available. You will not always use them all but having an idea of what is available and what works with it can come in handy. Then when you have specific questions about how a command works or why it does not work the way you expect you have the forum to come to.

If you already have the basics down, you are ready to progress and good luck on your project. RPGs are so data intensive that just creating the data variables can take pages of programming and a long to get all the bugs sorted out.

And again follow the advice of Bear Crazy Donut Productions and document everything and preplan. You wont get much better advice if you are to proced.

Wasting CPU Cycles since the 286 was a hot machine.
Kequor
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 02:13
Quote: "There will be an array containing data for every monster it is possible to encounter in a particular area. The index will be an identification number for the monster. The first X randomizations will decide how many monsters there will be(each randomization will be 0 or 1). The next set of randomizations is dependent upon how many of the previous randomizations returned a 1. The program will loop through each of the "true" randomizations and randomly pick a monster from the array of monster IDs.
The first set of elements in a monster's array is the HP range, their HP will be determined randomly within a range of values defined by the aforementioned element of the array. This will continue for each statistic (Strength, Dexterity, wutevah else), and each statistic range will be another element in the monster's array. Next is the initiative check......"
To get ranges save everything as a string, then read each character in the string without surpassing the string length until you come a "-" or a "." or whatever you decide. Save it as a newu string without the "-/." and convert that to a float or int. Then start reading one space after the "-/." and repeat the process."

Could you explain that again?

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 05:29
Sorry, here's a more readable versoin.




You need to decide the following things to prepare for each combat sequence.

1. How many enemies there are.
2. What species the enemies are.
3. The stats of the different enemies based on a range of values.
4. The initiative checks for each character and enemy.


1. How many enemies there are.
For each area the player can explore you should have a value defining the range of the amount of enemies that they can encounter in any given combat sequence.
Randomize the value. Something you'll need to remember, however, the Rnd() command can only go from 0 to another number. You'll need to have your own function to fix this problem. Here's something that will work(or at least it should, might need some tweaking):



You will want to store this value into a variable with a meaningful name.


2. What species the enemies are.
This is where more planning comes into play. You will need to make a table of all monsters in the game, and then a separate table for monsters available in each area(and depending on how in depth you want to go you might want different tables for each area depending on how far the player is in the game).

Organize this table into an array. It should include:
1. D number that can be identified with the monster(this should be the index of the array).
2. Name of the monster.
3-x. All statistics for the monster (strength, hp, etc.) Should be presented as a range.

Create a temporary array to store monster battle info.
Now with a for loop for i=1 to amount returned by Rand() randomly generate a monster ID for each monster in the battle. This value should be the first element in the array. The index would be between 1 and however many monsters there are.




3. The stats of the different enemies based on a range of values.
for i=1 to [the number of monsters]
Randomize all statistics for each monster in the battle based on the monster ID associated with them and the table of monster statistics.

For doing ranges you will need to use strings. I recommend making all your arrays strings, and remembering which elements you need to convert to ints or floats.

For ranges:
1.Your range should be described in the array like so: "[num1]-[num2]" ie: "1-10".
2. Use a for i=1 to len() loop. Take each character in the string starting from the left and if it is not a "-" add it to the end of a string(you'll keep adding to the same string).
3. When the program does read a "-" do not store that to any string, just start another for loop reading the left$() 1 place after the "-" until you reach the end of the string (using len() ). Then convert the two strings you have into numbers and you have two numbers to plug into your Rand() function.



4. The initiative checks for each character and enemy.
This is really dependent on how you want to do your battle system.

If you want a battle timer like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger you're going to want to generate a speed in pixels per second dependent on the statistics, and also depending on some random values generated before the combat that are biased by a statistic or two you will want to pick a random starting point for the battle timer.

If you want traditional queues you can generate an initiative modifier based on statistics (a la Dungeons & Dragons) and randomly generate a number for each character/monster, add the modifier to it and who ever has the highest goes first, then the next highest, and so on.

It might be worth your while to pick up a player's handbook for a tabletop RPG (I recommend D&D) if you don't already have one. It provides some great insight on how RPGs operate mathematically.


I hope that helps you, and good luck.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 08:53
Not trying to be rude, but if you didn't understand that, you need to start MUCH smaller. There are tons of people who have come around here wanting to make RPGs, and I have never seen one get made (at least not by a new person).

You must start smaller if you want to finish it. You must master the basics of game programming before you can tackle a huge project. Most everyone will agree here, if you do not have any programming experience, you NEED to start on small games, like Galaga, Pong, or another retro arcade game.

Once we tell people this, it goes one of two ways. Either the person says that we are right and asks for guidance on where to start small (very rare), or they say they will prove us wrong and that they will continue anyway. No one who has done the latter has ever proven us wrong. At least not with an RPG. I have not been here very long, but I have been on www.gamedev.net for a while, and it goes the same way there, too. They continue on, trying to program the next big RPG or MMORPG (snicker snicker), while not even being able to make a simple game loop or without even knowing how to call a subroutine.

I'm not saying that you are one of the latter, just explaining the two ways that people can take the constructive criticism.

Good luck and have fun!


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 09:11
If you do decide to scale down, be sure to still tackle your program modularly (spelling?). The problem I find with PONG/galaga is that you can program the whole thing in one big long complicated loop and it will run fine, but be hell to maintain. Break everything up into functions.

Start with

RunGame()

Rungame:
ShowIntro()
ShowMenu()
StartLevel()

etc. etc. and work your way down.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 14:33
Okay I think I understand. Now I could use some help with menus. The menu will be the same as in Japanese rpgs. As I said before just basic instructions and mabye a few examples.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

Kequor
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 12:39
Okay I think I said something that scared away my help. What was it?

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 13:05
Nah, I'm just runnin' low on ideas.....at least that's my excuse. Give me a bit to think up some stuff. Or better yet, post about something you need help with.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
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Kequor
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 03:01
Entering areas from the world map. Exiting screens. Setting up the world map. Towns. Shops. Inventory. Magic. Limit breaks. Menus. Cut scenes. Characters talk. Adding stryline (like when theres a gruop of charaacters talking to each other. Movement. Getting the 3D models to interact with the game.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

blanky
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:19
Get a DarkBasic manual.

Seriously tho, you need to be thinking (code-wise) less 'what do i do for a thing' and more 'i want my thing to do this. how do i do this?'

For example - exiting screens. We could give u a bazillion ideas. But what-do-you-WANT? A fade out? What?

If you're still working on game design head to these two places:

GameDev.com
Gamasutra.com

They both contain hundreds of articles on game development. (GameDev links to stuff on gamasutra sometimes. To access gamasutra you need to register an account (free). GameDev is cooler, but use BOTH.)

[img src=http://blanky.pt-web.net/ddd.gif] >::p
Kequor
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:45
Sory for not being more discriptive. When you exit a screen it will go black and then your in the next area. Same for going to areas rom the world map. World map, Towns, Shops, Inventory, Magic, Limit breaks, Menus, Characters talk, Movement, the way the 3d model interacts, will be like in Japanese rpgs. Cut scenes, the screen will go black and then the cut scene plays.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

blanky
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 05:53 Edited at: 8th Sep 2004 05:57
to use, just use GoBlack() to make the screen go black. NOTHING you do (apart from Set Gamma which this uses) will make it go back again, except for exiting game, etc. Arrange the screen ready as you want it. Then use GoUnBlack().



the db help file says 'not all cards support set gamma'. Even my ancient 450MHz~ laptop with 4Mb crappy ATI Rage video card had set gamma. If it can't do set gamma, i doubt it can run the game!

[edit] Although as soon as the game is quitted, whether Ctrl-Alt-Del'd or just finished the screen or even merely switched out of will be back (includes going back to the in-DB editor), if you press Esc to get the little prompt at the bottom of the screen, if you just did GoBlack the prompt at the bottom will be invisible to you! (THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THIS METHOD) (Solution: Do Set gamma 255,255,255 or GoUnBlack)[/edit]

[img src=http://blanky.pt-web.net/ddd.gif] >::p
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 08:04
For a loading screen (not transitional screens like FF but loading screens) there's a couple ways.

1. Turn down all ambient light, it's pretty much like using SET GAMMA, except you can see any 2d images you paste. That way you can have a nice pretty loading graphic.

2. Texture you're loading screen to a plain, position it in front of the camera and disable it's zdepth, then once everything's loaded you can just balete it.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 8th Sep 2004 09:39
Okay that help a lot. But I could still use some more help. As I said before just basic instructions and mabye a few examples.

Dont worry and keep a cool head.

Kequor
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 02:57
The thread is dying.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 09:08
In this snipper is a little fader thing, probably not much use.





But in the source box down there is a loading screen. I just took shots of the screen, textured it into a plain that was 40x30 (the aspect ration of monitors is 4:3) I figured out that I needed to move the camera back 24 and move the plain to the right .5 to line it up correctly. I disabled the zdepth for the plain so no matter what it was in front. Then it loads a bunch of cubes, and when it's done it swaps the LOADING message with the DONE PRESS A KEY TO CONTINUE message.

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Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 10th Sep 2004 12:38
Thanks this realy help a lot. But I could still use some more help. As I said MANY times before just basic instructions and mabye a few examples.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 12th Sep 2004 13:52
Dying iz thiz thread.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 13th Sep 2004 13:10
This thread is almost dead.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 13th Sep 2004 15:28
*live thread live!*

um........anything else you're looking for?

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Kequor
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Posted: 14th Sep 2004 00:56
Any of these that have not already been covered. Entering areas from the world map. Exiting screens. Setting up the world map. Towns. Shops. Inventory. Magic. Limit breaks. Menus. Cut scenes. Characters talk. Adding stryline (like when theres a gruop of charaacters talking to each other. Movement. Getting the 3D models to interact with the game.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 14th Sep 2004 10:36
Whoa! Too.....general......mind....exploding......

Make an attempt at something, something specific, then show us what you've got and we'll point ya in the right direction.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 14th Sep 2004 15:31
Alright.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 02:50
Okay I changed my mind so the movement will be third person. I tried this code.

But it dosn't work. I need help.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 16th Sep 2004 13:26
Well?

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 00:20
patience dude, I've got a busy schedule, barely any time to code.

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Sony stole our name!
Kequor
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 02:50
Sorry.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Cian Rice
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 04:07
Check my small RPG snippet, it's got a ton of code that can help you, and I've got the equilbrium battle snippet on my comp, so I can help you out Kequor, and also what happened to the tut you asked about submitting on DarkTutor, cuz we'd luv to have it!

Got anime?I do.
Kequor
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 13:47 Edited at: 17th Sep 2004 13:49
Quote: "and also what happened to the tut you asked about submitting on DarkTutor, cuz we'd luv to have it!"

I'm working on it. If I remember right I said it wasn't finished. Just to let everyone know the tut was for a FPS, not a rpg.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 14:04
Anime blood on the first page your thread changes to DarkBasic pro wich I do not have. Yes it has some methods but its mostly code. So this thread is still running.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Indian Homie G
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 14:56
Hey sorry guys I didnt read this whole topic, but just to let you know, the 3d RPG im working on now is my first project, *EVER*, and its going along great. Its a simple RPG with a simple AI, i thought it was a great thing to start out with. Taught me lots of DB commands, learnt as I went along.

Hope that helped... So basically just dont give up

AMD Athlon XP 3000+, S3 Deltachrome s8, 512 PC3200 RAM, 160 GB HD
Kequor
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 05:37
Quote: "So basically just dont give up"

I won't.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 07:23
Kequor....at first I thought this was just a block moving around.....but are you trying to get it so it flops over on every side as it moves?

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Kequor
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 10:39
Yes.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 10:40
It an attepmt at animation. I would be useing animated models instead of cubes.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
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Posted: 19th Sep 2004 01:56
If you don't whant to work on that right now then heres the start of a battle.


Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 19th Sep 2004 02:59
Whoa. What are you using all the if statements for?

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Damokles
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 28th May 2003
Location: Belgium
Posted: 19th Sep 2004 04:07
I would change



Into



- Mind the gap -
Dot Merix
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 15th Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: 19th Sep 2004 04:25 Edited at: 19th Sep 2004 04:26
[edit] I figured out what i had in this post previously was wrong, this post can be deleted.

- Merix
Kequor
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 6th Feb 2004
Location: United States
Posted: 19th Sep 2004 04:58
Sorry, I didn't know that DarkBasic could use times tables.

Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
Kequor
22
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Joined: 6th Feb 2004
Location: United States
Posted: 19th Sep 2004 05:00
Okay here.


Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com
BearCDPOLD
22
Years of Service
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Joined: 16th Oct 2003
Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 20th Sep 2004 11:25
Could you add some comments? I'm still looking through it and figuring out what neat stuff I could throw in there (finally able to code, had to spend the weekend in Tombstone of all places).

Some ideas:
first, make the interface easier to figure out. Have a PC(player character) identifying label thing, hp meter, Timed combat messages so you can tell if you did a new 9 damage or if that's the one you did last turn

enemy AI

open battle animation (you plug in what monster and it plays the animation for that monster attacking).

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Kequor
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Feb 2004
Location: United States
Posted: 21st Sep 2004 04:39
Quote: "so you can tell if you did a new 9 damage or if that's the one you did last turn"

Thats one of the things I need I need help with.



Dont worry and keep a cool head. And click the URL below the image.

http://www.kalepia.cjb.com

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