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Geek Culture / Pirating issues as of late

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 12:20
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Sorry, as this is really more of a rant. I have just noticed two threads within about three hours of each other with people talking about pirating software! C\'mon people, this is really stupid. First of all, it is against the Acceptable Use Policy on this site. If you need to see it for yourself, look at the little blue link right under the message post box at the bottom of every screen. This is piracy, and these people are not even trying to hide it.

As I said in both threads (which I\'m sure some people are getting sick of hearing), if you have not noticed, this is a software programming forum, and these people are talking about, or even asking how to pirate software!! It doesn\'t make sense!

If you do involve yourself in these activities, at least keep it to yourself. I am not going to be an idiot and think that every one is just going to stop doing this, but at least I can pretend!

Games are not that expensive, even from what I have heard other people say in other countries. People will buy a DVD for around ~$19.99, and that will last all of about 2 hours. Well, even if a game is $60, you can probably plan to get more than 6 hours of entertainment out of it. At least I do.

As for applications, if it is worth using, it is worth buying. If you just need it for one or two uses, any program worth it\'s binary should have a demo or trial version. I know that it becomes much more tempting with uber high priced software, like Maya and what-not. But, keep in mind that there are low cost alternatives for these. Please check this thread for low-cost alternatives to higher priced game dev software: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=30080&b=10 You should find almost everything you need there.


If you live in the US, and are an avid console gamer, maybe consider getting Red Octane, or a similar service. For just $18.95, you can always have 2 games out for as long as you want. You can keep them until you beat them or get sick of them, and it\'s cheaper than buying all the latest games, beating them , and then letting them sit around and collect dust.

Well, this started out as a rant, but I tried to turn it into something construcive. Please think about this in the future.


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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MikeS
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 12:50
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http://www.studica.com/Discreet/

There, if you can't scram up $150 from the couch for 1 yr. 3DS Max 6 license, then get off your computer and start mowing some lawns.

I agree that there's no reason to pirate software.
http://www.studica.com
Studica is one of the best places to buy software for students(as that's what many of us our.)

Also, sign up for newsletters and become a registered member with big companies like Alias, Discreet, etc. More times than 1, I've gotten special offers(I get about 1,000 a week from caligari) with great pricing on software.

Just keep your options open when buying expensive software. Just last month I sent an e-mail to New-Tek asking for a trial version of LW8. They said, "Sure, just give us your name and some info. and we'll put you on the mailing list."

I think the reason most people pirate software is because they want to try before buy. That's perfectly reasonable, and if you contact their customer service, they'll more than likely find a way to help you out.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 13:38
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Quote: "I think the reason most people pirate software is because they want to try before buy."


If only it was. I know people that don't have a single original game on their computer, PS2, or X-Box. They just don't want to pay anything for them. This is really a newer trend. Pirating really began to become prevalent on the PS1, but now it is really becoming an epidemic with the new systems, with the rising costs to make a game and the lowering cost of mod chips,DVD-RW drives, and blank DVDd.

These people have a very dangerous idea that the game industry will always be there to make new games for them. They think it will not hurt the industry to just have one more person not paying for games. But the industry is starting to take a hit on this.

The prices will continue to go up on games, making more people decide to pirate games. Then, they will out price themselves and have to lower prices down to compete with the booming game pirating community and absorb the losses. This will force the smaller companies who cannot absorb the losses to fold and blow away. Then you will only see huge companies like EA releasing more sub-par games wuth less inovation. If you do not think that will happen, take a look at the music industry. That's exactly what happened, and now we have a wave of "safe" music coming out that is garanteed to make money, with less new, interesting offerings. Hundreds of smaller music labels had to close due to lacking funds from CD piracy, and now we see less innovation at the CD stores.


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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Jimmy
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 14:30
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I have no problem with pirates

Unless they're midget pirates of willygoat....


http://www.dbspot.com/ - Free website hosting. Fast and reliable... probably.
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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 14:52 Edited at: 6th Sep 2004 14:53
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I think your blowing this a tad of proportion the post wasn't about how to pirate a game it was about could it be done, a legitimate question. Yes i agree piracy is wrong and the game industry does take a hit and i do not pirate software myself, but the guy just asked a simple question.

And maybe the game studios would make some more money if they would stop producing over buget games using high payed voice actor's and massive amounts of media that costs millions to produce and are total bomb's anyone remember enter the matrix?

Seriously though yes it is a problem but it's not anything new i rember when kids at school would all copy there dos games on floopy and trade them 18 years ago and the industry is still here today.
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 14:59 Edited at: 6th Sep 2004 15:00
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I'm not going to lie. I pirate most software before I buy it. But, if I like it or use it, I buy it. I have legal versions of all software I like and use. If I don't buy it, I uninstall it and delete it. More software needs time limited fully functional demos. I am not going to buy software until I make sure it is going to work like I want it too. Which is why I like DBP so much. They give you fully functional with no pirating. But yes pirating is wrong if you do not buy the software. So is re-installing demo versions over and over again never buying the software

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Three Score
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 15:37
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i hate pirate especially people who attempt to steal source
but still i hate hackers worse
they steal your info, they can do illeagel stuff and make it look like you because it was thru your pc
make you have t go thru a lot of crap and also can pirate any of your software in addition to all that

http://free-space.myftp.org for free ftp
website hosting and e-mail 60mb for ftp/webste 70mb for e-mail
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Powersoft
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 16:33
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that my friend is the Hollywood view.

I would say there is probably a few hackers on the forum who are well respected... a hacker yes does go and steal your data but they can also be people who want to learn more about computers and security etc.


Scorched Turf --> Project Thread
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David T
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 17:14
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Quote: "think your blowing this a tad of proportion"


Yes, I think that you're attempting to vet this forum a bit too much

Quote: "but still i hate hackers worse
they steal your info, they can do illeagel stuff and make it look like you because it was thru your pc"


Hackers are legal, they usually work for banks testing security.

Crakers on the other hand are illegal and hack illegally.

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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 20:09
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Quote: "Pirating really began to become prevalent on the PS1"

It was prevalent enough on the Spectrum for the 20/20 visioned game producers to give us the lenslock...


Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?
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Van B
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 20:21
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Ahh, I remember that, it came with Elite - you had to put this little red gadget over some scrambled letters, thing is that you did'nt really need it - you could figure out the . Personally I preferred Jet Set Willy's colour grid (like pages and pages of colours) and you had to carefully write it all out if you wanted a copy!.

I'm not gonna sit and tell you that I don't copy the occasional game, because I do - but the way I see it, if you buy a game and want to play it on multiplayer, you must buy more copies - same goes for XBox games, when you mainly buy multiplayer games - this is a problem. I don't use cracked CD's, I'm more likely to go looking for no-cd cracks so I can play without the CD or on more than 1 PC, my XBox is chipped so I can copy games to the hard disk and stick the original in another box for multiplayer games.

That's illegal really, but the chances of me being caught, let alone prosecuted are basically nil, it's really a problem for publishers to ponder, I'd love to see games come with multiplayer spawn CD's like Command and Conquer did (damn I appreciated that).


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
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David T
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 20:59
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Quote: "I'd love to see games come with multiplayer spawn CD's like Command and Conquer did (damn I appreciated that)."


Yes - a version of the game that onlyl worked as a multiplayer client would be ace. The only reason I still play Age of Empires (original), because it works over the network

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 6th Sep 2004 23:00
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When I was in Ireland, people were pirating movies left,right,and center, it's huge over there.

Got anime?I do.
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John H
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 01:39
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Theres no reason to pirate, theres ALWAYS a cheaper alternative. Pirating is STEALING no matter what way you look at it. Lets apply it to real life.

Person steals Mercedez McLaren (250k $$)
Police Catch them
Person says "Im sorry, I just couldnt afford it so I stole it!"
Police Say: Then why not buy a cheaper car like a Focus -_-

Now lets apply it to Pirating!

Person Steals Maya ($5k+)
Police Catch them
Person says: I just couldnt afford it
Police Say: Why not spend 20 for milkshape, or download wings 3d, anim8or, blender3d, DeLeD or ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

Thers always a cheaper alternative people....pirating is never right, your stealing. PERIOD.


Check out our Team Request in the Team Request section if you want to help!
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Van B
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 01:57
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Your right - of course you are - but when you consider the money grabbing attitudes of publishers, it's hard to feel guilty about not playing their *game*.

The funny thing is though, people complaining about the price of games. It used to be far more expensive, like £25 for a game - but I'm talking 15 years ago, when Atari ST's cost £400. If games had maintained their value according to inflation, it'd cost about £100 for a game!. Some would say that the early crackers hammered down the path for cheaper commercial games, I'd hate to see what would have happend if the publishers were able to maintain those margins.


Van-B


Muhahahahaha.
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Damokles
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 02:50
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I had many problems with Gmax, Wings3D, so I use MetasequoiaLE. Freeware and easy to use (at least for me )

- Mind the gap -
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 04:46
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It really disheartens me to see all these people trying to rationalize piracy. Like it's the publishers fault. People are saying that the game industry is money hungry and what-not. Well, I hate to tell you this, but they are in the bussiness to make money, not entertain the world. Of course they are going to want to make money, and with the budgets for most games swelling over the size of most Hollywood movies, I think it makes sense.

And as far as someone asking how a game is copied as opposed to asking how they can do it, I don't really see the difference. Anyone can say that they are asking in theory, then use the information.


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 04:51
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It's not like it's just the publishers who gain. That's the developers' living right there.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 04:55
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It is not stealing if you buy it or don't like it and uninstall it. I personally have spent $400 on software that was crap but I didn't know it because the export functions were the problem and the trial version didn't have an export function Bear in mind this was not gaming software but machine programming software (and i mean industrial machines). And I quote their response when i wanted my money back "It works with other peoples machines. So it must be a problem with your machine it doesn't like. We can't give refunds unless the software is broken." So now I pirate. If I like it (it works like it is supposed to) or if I use it (it doesn't work like it is supposed to but is good enough and alot cheaper than software that does work right) I buy it. If not I uninstall it and think no more of it. Now how is that hurting anything.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 04:58
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Thank you Mouse. He's very right. There are a LOT of mouths to feed out of each game that comes out. If you feel you are being cheated now, your should have been saying that about SNES games. Only a handful of people were required to make most 16-bit cartridge, and most would go for around $60. Now, games require lots of special software, lots of modelers, lots of programmers, and tons of other people, all working on it for at least a year if not longer. And all these people want to get paid. Just like you and me, they do not like working for free!

I mean, if you pirate software, just keep it to yourself! You are probably going to offend more people her then in most other forums.


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:07
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I agree completely. And as soon as all software has fully functional (time based Like DBP and/or limited # of exports but at least 1 export) trial versions. There will be absolutely no need to pirate software for any reason.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:26
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I wish that all demos were time restricted and not feature restricted, but the companies that put the demos out are worried that people will continously delete and reinstall to take advantage of it.


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:27
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I believe that it's not okay to download or copy a friend's game, crack it, play it, then remove it or buy it depending whether you like it. Why not just rent the game from the video store for a week to determine? Then at least you can rest assured that you are taking the 100% legal route.

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David T
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:32
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Quote: "It is not stealing if you buy it or don't like it and uninstall it."


It's not murder if you kill them then have second thoughts.

Or is it?

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:39 Edited at: 7th Sep 2004 05:40
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Quote: "Why not just rent the game from the video store for a week to determine? Then at least you can rest assured that you are taking the 100% legal route"
Indeed that is what I do with games. But do you know where I can rent programming, modelling, and other software of the kinds?

Quote: "It's not murder if you kill them then have second thoughts."

How can you compare installing software then uninstalling it to killing someone and having second thoughts. When you install software and don't like it or use it and you uninstall it there is absolutely NO harm done. No one loses money, no one is hurt buy it, and like the man said unless you tell someone .... no one will know.
If you kill someone thats the end of it. You can't bring them back. Its final.

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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:40
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If you want to try it out, get a demo or rent it. If you need it cheap, buy a discount version or get it off of Ebay. There's really no excuse for piracy.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Jeku
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:43
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Quote: "But do you know where I can rent programming, modelling, and other software of the kinds?"


Point taken.

Quote: "If you need it cheap, buy a discount version or get it off of Ebay."


So true. My old company managed to find an unlimited license for a Macromedia suite (Dreamweaver, Flash) on Ebay for a great deal.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:45
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There is when the demo has no export feature so you can't be sure the export feature works properly and is compatible with your other software. I am not condoning actually installing the software illegally and keeping it forever. But there is absolutely no harm in doing this just to fully "try" the software. If you use it. Buy it. Plain and simple.

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the_winch
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 05:57
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I don't see piracy for evaluation is any worse than borrowing a copy off a friend to see if it does what you want. That is if you are honest and will actually buy it but how many users of pirate software actually do that?


it's cool to hate
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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 06:05
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That's just an excuse. I know people have have said that; they're either lying to me or lying to themselves. "I'm just going to 'try this out' for one more day"... "I really don't have the money to buy it anyways" ... "it's not like one less purcahse is hurting anyone"... any excuse to keep from paying. No, there's no good reason.


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=1&t=10920
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 06:42
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I know it may come as a surprise but some people are actually honest.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 07:08
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I believe you that you actually will delete it or buy it. The only problem is that it is supporting the piracy community. If people keep downloading pirated software, people will keep ripping it off and making cracks.

And yes, my man beef was actually people talking about piracy, asking how it is done, or saying they are going to look for a crack on these forums. I know I can't change what anyone else will do, nor do I think it will ever stop as long as people have internet access. I was just saying that this is not the place, as you will end up offending people who want to go into the software programming industry or sell their own software (of which there are a lot of us that want to do both).


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 07:32
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Agreed. That's all i'll say about piracy on these forums. I will not help anyone pirate software on these forums as it is forbidden. I do not help anyone pirate software that I do not trust to buy the software if they like it anyway. That being said ... I am planning on making and selling a game. I will make the demo fully functional but on a time based trial. Like the NGC did. Thats is pretty good piracy protection. I do not want people to pirate my game but if they really want to try it for longer periods of time they can contact me and I'll help them.

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MikeS
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 08:47
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Did anyone read my second post?

It was only last month I e-mailed Newtek, asked for their discovery edition(which isn't distributed publicily), and they sent it in. I'm 90% sure, that if you e-mail the developers of a game/app, they'll be able to get you setup. Console games can be rented, most apps you can get/ask for a trial.



Piracy is such an ugly thing.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
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The Videogameaholic
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Posted: 7th Sep 2004 15:45
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Piracy is wrong...mmkay...

However, if I could use kazaa to steal a Mercedez McLaren, I'd do it.

RMPVG (Real Men Play Video Games)
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