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DarkBASIC Discussion / Final fantasy 7-10 tech question

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aprilfan
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Posted: 28th Dec 2002 22:11
All right you've all probably played one of these games, the ones with out moving bakcgrounds that look really cool.
So how did they do it? And can DB do it to? Yeah sounds crazy. yes this is Dark Basic related at least I think so...
We could have handled that better.
John H
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Posted: 28th Dec 2002 22:51
Ya you can make unmoving backgrounds.

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aprilfan
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Posted: 28th Dec 2002 23:24
DUH I know that I want to know how to make the characters move on invisble plain and to have collision and such it seems hard to do and like it would take alot of code but I doubt sparsoft completely redid thier engine for every screen but thats all I've been able to do. Functions maybe...

We could have handled that better.
Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 00:40
u mean pre-rendered backgrounds? Like the ones in Resident Evil series? Yeah I wanna make a game like that too but dunno how to even start that

"Never argue with an Idiot, they will always bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
-- Megaman X
John H
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 01:14
Oh I get it. Do you want to make it so the background its a plain and your characters cant walk through it?

"with out moving bakcgrounds that look really cool."

I dont understand your question!

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aprilfan
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 02:28
Rogue knows what I'm talking about maybe he can explain it! I'm haveing trouble explaining just what I mean...

We could have handled that better.
Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 02:43
Cool I have the same question. Hope someone can help us.
Basicaly, how the tecnic to create pre-rendered maps works?
I've seen a demo like that in BB once. Looks like the guy just placed some images to use as backgrounds and some invisible objects to create it's collisions, but I'm not sure.
This style tough, does not seem to be used nowadays, everyone is going to make the full map with 3D Objects instead, but I really am entrested in making a game with pre-rendered scenneries.
Well, I also explain myself really bad but let's hope someone undertand us and can explain it

"Never argue with an Idiot, they will always bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
-- Megaman X
John H
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 03:11
I still dont get it :p Sorry

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Megaman X
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 03:31
hmmmmmm... Like... take a look at Resident Evil for PSone Instead of they use huge numbers of polygons they use pictuters as backgrounds who does the job .
Also, I think that when Chainer said: "with out moving bakcgrounds that look really cool." he meant that the camera is fixed instead of following the carater... that's easy to do, but the rendered maps I dunno

I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
-- Rogue
John H
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 04:08
I think they make one object in the shape of what they want shown in the screen, and then texture it with one huge texture.

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 04:21
Ok, this is complicated, and difficult. It is HARD to get things just right, but possible. The best way to do it with 3D charactors and space is to either paste the image, or to use plains. There are issues with both.
First of all collision: Easiest way is to make a really low poly collision model, basically the charactor can go anywere in the model, but can't leave it. This model is either hidden, or textured with the prerendered backdrop. The problem is perspective though...
Another way to display the prerendered BD is to paste onto plains. This can cause problems on some systems that can't handle textures over 256x256, and can look ugly on some machines. These plains then have to be spaced and positioned properly, and the collision would be done on the above mentioned model.
Pasting images is memory intensive, especially with 3D models in the Background/foreground, but it can be done, and is a bit easier than plains. Collision would be done on a model again.
Guys, it's REALLY hard to do that, and I would think that you'd need a specialized engine to do it, so you could specify the rendering order on models and such, but I spose it is possible on DB/P.

And no, squaresoft didn't completely change their engine for every scene. Thats lunacy.

Now that I've discouraged Pre-Rendered backdrops, I'll encourage real time backdrops, as seen in FFX. Easier to make and implement in DB, and far nicer IMHO.

Alex Wanuch
aka rapscaLLion
Kousen Dev Progress >> Currently Working On Editors
Benjamin
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Posted: 30th Dec 2002 21:54
make a 2D background that lets 3D in front of it then make a sprite. then moving the camera wont effect it

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
Teh Missingz0rs
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Posted: 5th Jan 2003 16:10
I thought of a way to do this a while ago, but I never tested it, so don't blame me if it doesn't work...


1) Make a 3D level, with physics for each 3D object.
2) Make the camera angles
3) Take a screenshot from each angle
4) When you have finished, remove the 3D but not the Physics
5) Now edit each screenshot with a bitmap editor like Paint shop pro.
6) for each camera angle in the game, texture the backdrop with a bitmap.

This CAN work. Did I explain it clearly enough? It's kinda hard to write it down...

Howling Mad Murdoch, at your service.
Killer Sponge
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Posted: 7th Jan 2003 16:36
I've thought about this myself as well, the problem I ran into is how the "FUCK" do you get the character to be hidden if it walked behind and pre-rendered wall??

The Darthster
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Posted: 7th Jan 2003 19:16
You use more than one image. Draw objects that the character goes behind in front of the character, on separate bitmaps.
John H
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Posted: 7th Jan 2003 22:24
Yep.

Killersponge-
1) WATCH THE LANGUAGE
2) Please! No more cooltext logos!!

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Benjamin
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Posted: 7th Jan 2003 22:42
1) Watch the language - English

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
The Darthster
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Posted: 8th Jan 2003 00:52
I tried this earlier, but it didn't quite work. I had an area for a character (a box) to move around in, with some basic value collision, then tried to use the same camera angle in anim8or to make a room and render it nicely. However the fov is different or something, the view in anim8or was different to the view in DBPro. You really need a renderer which uses the same 3d engine as the game engine, only with better lighting, shadows, bump mapping etc.
Leade
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2003 22:51
What u coud do is create a large sprite and position it first then turn of the backdrop.

then:
1. Create a sprite to fill the screen
2. Turn of the 3D backdrop
3. Draw to front. `(Draw 3D over 2D)
4, Clear the screen `(Stops horrible hall of mirror effect)
5. Position or paste the large sprite on screen
5a. Object Interact code goes here
6. Position the objects on screen
7. Draw to back `(Draws 2D over 3D)
8. Position any onscreen sprite here
7. sync the screen

Repeat the stages 3 to 7 in a loop if the objects will move

And hopefully you should have the desired effect.
KovaSteel
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 08:44
I too need how to make that type of background for my ff game.I just don`t think that making a 3D world with polygons and 3d objects(like Mario 64)will match to a Final Fantasy!!!Could someone please help me??

BTW,what`s the hell are these real time backdrops in ffx??

Current Game::Final Fantasy Unleashed
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 09:02
ya'll seriously want to know howto make those backgrounds like in Resident Evil?

the formula is quite simple... make a highres background in something like i dunno, Max
then render - keep the camera and then where you want the player to interact with the scenary create the box's

finally attach them all and then use the UVW Map on planner map, set the alignment to the camera ... then use the Render'd image.

Et voila then all you have to do is place a dummy cube where the camera is and another one at the scene XYZ zero point and you have it done.

For the realtime backgrounds all they are happen to be animations for the most part, and real polygon worlds for other parts (however the game itself sucked more balls than Graham Norton and Dale Winton put together imho )

simply export the render'd backgrounds with the animation as individual jpg's and then use a for...next to render

easier than proverbial pie as it were

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
John H
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 17:19
Ahhhh the simplicity of backdrops

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Dont ask those questions! Read the help files lazy!
KovaSteel
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Posted: 25th Feb 2003 17:12
It gotta be the heck lot of work to ceate that number of pics and scenes so i think i gonna stick to making my game as a 3D world. It`ll be as if i`ll give depth to a Final Fantasy 1-6.It gonna be an innovation!!!

Current Game::Final Fantasy Unleashed
Joesoftxl
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Posted: 8th Mar 2003 21:26
What about piecing matrixes together and deleting and replacing them when you load a new screen. Not exactally fast or short but....

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