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Geek Culture / Can anyone answer a C++ question?

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John H
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 16:31
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Ok everyone Im taking some time to learn C++. I am using Borland C++ Starters Kit. I am wondering if anyone has some experience with this, if they could tell me how many polys can run smoothly through this engine. I am thinking of learning C++, just because I think its a good langauge to learn, and after finishing ET in DB, I may convert it to C++.

Please help!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Dec 2002 16:44
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Really very system dependant...
i've not seen Borlands C++ SK however, no doubt it uses the Borland Builder C++ Compiler ... which is a little limiting when considering Microsoft programming.

Now depending on what API you end up using, DirectX, OpenGL, SGI, jX3D, etc... will actually dictact your polygon counts. But also more importantly also depends upon the coding you place within the game.

You could say have upto 500,000 for a simple pacman game on a system like my laptop [Celeron 600Mhz | GF2 Go! | 256Mb Ram | WinXP | DirectX 8.2]
however you want to change that so that you're in a maze with the ghosts hunting you with alot of intelligence and teamwork, then you can slice that in half atleast due to the Ai processor speed needed

Get used to the language and code before devling too deeply into that question. But its a good bet that if you can run it in DarkBasic Std then it'll run admirably within C++ no matter the API, unless it too is an interpreter.

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Puffy
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Posted: 30th Dec 2002 04:28
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I am using Borland C++ Starters Kit
AHHAHAHAHAHHA... dont use that program... use codewarrior...

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Puffy
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Posted: 30th Dec 2002 04:29
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(oh and yes i know c++ with opengl & directx support...)

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mimesis
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Posted: 30th Dec 2002 19:26
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where can i get an evaluation version of codewarrior?
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John H
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Posted: 30th Dec 2002 22:23
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LOL I just got the starters kit just to try out C++. I have a 1 Ghz comp with a GeForce 2 card.

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Puffy
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o_O you could go on kazaa and download it... ^_^ 7.0 is the latest... just search on downloads.com for codewarrior... you wanna know something funny... the opengl software kit is called GLUT...

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Puffy
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 02:07
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(thats why its almost impossible to find... most people search for OPENGL SDK)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 14:46
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but its not really a SDK... all you need for OpenGL to program for it is the DLLs - as all the main programming editors actually include the .h .cpp .lib files as part of the standard package.

but then again could always goto OpenGL.org and get the 500kb SDK
1.4.3 is the current version, but most cards won't use anything over 1.2.0 cause most of the updates after that are nVidia only, infact v1.4.x is only for nVidia GeForce cards.

never really liked the coding style you needed for OpenGL, but had to wrestle with it recently for the Render engines behind the Level Developers and Modeling Packages...
actually got a new alpha of gameWorld done now, not sure about a few things because the render'r arn't performing as well as i'd of hoped - render Software, OpenGL & WinXP based render engines were redesigned slightly for use with Qoole '99 and sent to someone who told me it ran slow.
I think there is a bit of editing to go yet, but i think the engine trees are just not working the way they should.
Probably cause i'm torn between projects and trying to develop this with twin tear uses - maybe i should just concentrate on a single project and getting it out the door first

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DarkPhyber
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 21:43
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USE dev-c++ from bloodshed...you can do opengl,dx8, sdl and windows program...and its all free!!!!!

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Puffy
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USE dev-c++ from bloodshed...you can do opengl,dx8, sdl and windows program...and its all free!!!!!

yup devCpp is one of my favorites... O_O it doesnt confuse people as much as codewarrior... but codewarrior can do many more languages...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 21:47
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me gots MSVStudio 6.0 and i'm actually happy with it, also got Ciyanna on the way which is kinda useful cause i've been getting used to that myself and interesting to code section of a product within an alpha of itself

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Puffy
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 21:52
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MSVStudio 6.0

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE... msvs does way to much for you.. o_O even bloodshed is better...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 22:12
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if you want anything outside of the little microsoft box you do have ALOT to edit ... that aside personally for HUGE projects like Ciyanna and the game|tau product ranges and large games titles being developed almost solo it is extremely useful to have alot automated so i don't have to think about what my labels are, where the structures are, what classes have been made|declared and where, automatic DLL inclusion for what your using, multiple project setup, resource developer internally, full MFC support, full DirectX support, full Resource and Code Overveiws, quickly editable Debug, Release and Standard Build Compiler options along with a fully output build report and export for alternative C++ Compilers, additional language support on demand, blah blah blah

personally alot of jobs i'd rather not sit there and worry about so i cna just sit down and get down to the nitty gritty of actually developing the program rather than spending 16-20hours just developing a working front end.



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Puffy
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Posted: 31st Dec 2002 22:14
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labels

*twitches*... labels are the devil... they ruin code...

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Shadow Robert
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so rather than all code to do with something specific you just name it normal...

like a menu item would be mnu_[name]
... sorry can't work without labels, means i know what goes to what, what level of control etc...
otherwise i'd need a mile long description name which isn't really efficient, especially with my problem with spelling - but then again you've already told me you've not really mastered a single language yet so

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Puffy
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but then again you've already told me you've not really mastered a single language yet so

^_^ i never said that... i said that when i program with one... i start mistakin one language for another... o_O seriously... try programmin in ASM then going back to C++... once you try going back to ASM... you cant remember shit... you sit there feelin like a retard... then you need a lil reminder....

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DarkPhyber
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well i like all the dev studio for specific stuff.....i use visual studio 6 and .net....for more bussines apps....and when i use directx and use the jet3d or genesis3d engine....but i like bloodshed because i can build sdl code and wit will run on both unix and linux....and i do alot of work on unix machines......and i have done some asm...mostly os code...like i.o drivers and small process switcher .....asm isnt that hard...if u flowchart what u wanna do...its not like c where u can sit and just write code...

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Puffy
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yup... i forgot the word for it... o_O where you write out your program in steps... you have to do that in complex programs with lower end langauges because you forget what your code does... and it takes you like 10 times longer...

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DarkPhyber
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yea but u get some speed increases sometimes

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Puffy
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^_^ which is why you do it... because your code turns out better... except in db and dbpro... you dont need to ... o_O its so easy you just write as you go... with an idea in your head...

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Shadow Robert
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just differences between linear and dynamic programming really ... with C++ being the next evolution of the dynamic programming.

quite oftenly, expecially if writing for RISC systems Assembly is much faster - and generally when you work you'll write out the flow of the program first.
Or maybe thats just me, but then again i do that no matter what i'm programming because everything is still to a Flow Chart really - only difference is when i use C++ i've generally work on upto 8 at a time which can be confusing.

Also generally work in what document window app your using, so you combine alot of things and crosslinks are alot easier if you plan out where they'll be without sitting there trying to think about where they'll be in your head. Also leaves you to simple get on with programming the actual program.

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Puffy
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yup... ^_^ i just got a book on how to program "AI with wisdom"... thank god... o_O now my ai will be smarter...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 14:20
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lmao... i can just see your game is gonna be basically tutorials patched together into some frankenstein
not a pretty site when people do that

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DarkPhyber
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Posted: 2nd Jan 2003 16:31
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lol good one vegeta (so how are u n goku getting along yet? j/k )...but at least it gives him experience....and he can build uppon it

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Puffy
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o_O wahhh me use tutorials... why would i do that...

lmao... i can just see your game is gonna be basically tutorials patched together into some frankenstein
not a pretty site when people do that

um raven... never ever ever... stealing code is bad... just wanna tell ya... o_O why would i steal peoples code... i write my own...

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Shadow Robert
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hehee ... me & kakarotto are on putting up with each other terms

i know its experience, just saying i've seen way to many people who use those tutorials that show you howto do something - and althought it might be your own code, they never encourage you to actually LEARN why your code is doing that.
I mean i know so many people out there who think that cPoint is simply for drawing.

but then each to his own ... if we were all as smart as mr Gates or Carmack then who'd need tutorials
ya know that is a funny thing to note, cause those coders who are just truely amazing i've notice you ask them a question direct and they're like "erm, i dunno" and they do seem really stupid people at time.
But you ask them to write out some RPG battle system or something, they'll take the nite write out 3 or 4 and hand you the best in the morning. lmao its insane really

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Puffy
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i know its experience, just saying i've seen way to many people who use those tutorials that show you howto do something -

nope... its not experience... its steeling... o_O the kind of tutorials you are thinking of tell you what to do and when... the kind im thinking of are tricks of the trade... ^_^ yours says "AFTER YOU DO THIS DO THIS..." mine says "the creators of black and white did such and such to do such in such... this is important because blah..."... not "HERE IS THE CODE FOR THE THING THEY DID AND NOW YOU CAN USE IT"... o_O im more interested in why then how...

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Puffy
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(i think i got my point across)

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DarkPhyber
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dudes ok calm down......its just i think vegetta is saying is that some people just use tutorials....and dont take the time to exploit what they learned...or research how this happens. they find a tutorial on how to load a sprite cut n paste...then find some ai code or something do alittle more cutting and pasting.....in the end they have a game....but they will not know what actually happens in the background.....i mean there are things that u can cut n paste just not to re write it over n over...like how to initialize direct draw....thats fine as long as you know what going on...............hey did we ever answer rgpgamers question....we seem to gotten off on a tangent

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Shadow Robert
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hehee yup... thats why we went off on the tangent
puffy and me are always calm and cool
even when i beat him back into his box with that stick - hehee

ya i get what ya mean puffy... and i was meaning more in a wat that pyhber said
i mean personally i don't think i could learn from a book that had NO code in it - i mean how the hell are you suppose to understand the structures without learning C first? and even if you do then the OOP is just a little odd to jump to, especially with classes.

i know that just more personal preferance than anything else ... but i prefer tutorials that teach you basic structures that you can copy and are working straight, but they don't actually teach you howto achieve the full task to move onto the next lesson - meaning you have to think of howto use what you've learn so that you can go on and do the next lesson
the darkbasic "howto create and FPS" tutorial, within the manual atleast was actually one of these kinda of things that taught you exactly what to do and why it happened. I found it quite useful - i mean by the time i got 1.08 boxed i knew it all anyways hehee, but the point stands

i really wanna start making tutorials and such but i just go off on tangents all the time - hyperexplain points.
which in person is oki because i talk quite fast when i know what i'm gonna say
but on paper just puts peeps to sleep.
i think a few of the better DBers should get together and help me write out a tutorial kind of manual for pro

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Puffy
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o_O i would love to help... i know by better dbers you meant me ... because everyone loves me ^_^...

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Benjamin
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im learning C. its good for gameboy programming..

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Puffy
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petrat your going to have to get a gb flash attachment for your computer... they sell em on some rom sites... and a blank cartriage ^_^ then you can make your very own games and test em too...

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Benjamin
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i know. the only problem......look at the prices..

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Puffy
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yeh your right =\... i bet you could sell yourself out as a sex slave (oh nooooo... i would hate having to have sex for money oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh nooooooooooooooooooooo....) O_O then buy one...

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Shadow Robert
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explain to me how C is better for gameboy programming?
last time i checked the gameboy was an assembly console

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Benjamin
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ahhh, but u can use a special compiler...ask me if you want the link

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DarkPhyber
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vegeta thes a c lib.....u can find at devrs.com it actually pretty good. and you can always use the gameboy emulators until you get the flash.....gba fllash are expensive but the gameboy color ones arent

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Shadow Robert
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interesting ... when i was at Rare last they were still using Assembly - guess i'll have to check it out GBA snake here i come

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DarkPhyber
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sweet have fun let us know how it goes

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Death
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depends what 3D engine you have for it and what language ure using (generally Open GL is the fastest) but then again direct x has sound and multiplayer implemented

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Puffy
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and directx supports beos which is on the comeback i think... ^_^

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