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Work in Progress / The perfect IDE for DBP (suggestions please)

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1tg46
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 08:59
I am creating yet another IDE for DBP and I was wondering what to include.

This IDE is going to be different because the title is "DarkBASIC Network IDE". This IDE will allow groups to work on the same project at the same time over a computer network (not internet, DSL, Broadband, Cable, etc.).

Features already planned for the IDE:
User accounts for specific data to be stored (password protected)

Instant messaging service for the network to talk to other project granted accounts.

Project Manager (the main project Admin user) can grant who can work on projects based on other accounts.

The basic look of BlueIDE but very enhanced. (since it will be very similar in appearance I will double check before the release with RobK to make sure he doesn't have any problems with it.)

Any other suggestions would be much appreciated .


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
walaber
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 13:13
why not include internet support? very few DB users have friends who also code, who are also on the same network.

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DarkSin
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 15:30
Internet support is my suggestion.


David T
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 16:17
Only post here once you have something to show.

As for my suggestion, I say CVS support.

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BatVink
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 20:34
Definitely CVS or some other change monitoring method, with rollback.

Why not use Blue IDE as the base, it's open source and I'm sure Rob would appreciate it being enhanced.

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Rob K
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 20:51
I'm quite happy for you to use BlueIDE as the base, or use a similar appearence.

The only limitations are that in accordance with the GPL, any software using code derived from GPL code must be open source.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 22:49
GPL only dictacts you must release source code your *change*, and this is again *only* if you charge for the given product.

If the product is free then you don't have to release the source.
If you are adding new parts those are entirely your property to do with as you will.

Should be interesting to say the least to see this feature implimented in a browser, and i would suggest editing up BlueIDE rather than making your own from scratch.

CVS is a good idea, question stands... are there many users which would actually use it?
See i've been over that very question a good number of times over the past month, and ways have been devised which would actually be more benificial to users.

A system which actually would help keep teams developing as a whole no matter where they are rather than individuals who are just editing up and uploading source others have.

I mean when you think about it, alot of professional solutions are a good idea in theory... but when given to the uninitiated and people who can't normally work in a team will just become fancy unused features.
If on the other hand you work around the premise that your dealing with people who are not putting in 8hrs a day and who are not trained or just used to working with others, then adapting things to fit that given premise. You can come up with features that are not only useful but will be regularly used in order to keep projects going.

I don't want to say to much really, cause partly 'competition' and partly i'm a lil afraid of what darkgirl would do to me :-|
but you can be sure this isn't some sort of novel feature cooked up just to make an IDE unique from the pack, there are alot of features and effects which although feature in other dev enviornments ... are not designed around the user, but more just to be a feature.

So what i'm trying to say is, your not trying to make your IDE popular through an untested brash feature.
If you truely want to make something which will be used because of a feature then sit down and think about just how it would need to be setup and used.

CVS is great, if you can understand (or have) a server with which to setup your CVSROOT directory. This however is a pain in the ass because you have to still do it manually with CVS.
The Standard user doesn't know what Shell is, let alone how to use it and set everything up.

Same goes for a computer networking source... i mean it's fine and dandy saying 'well people will be given passworded access.' but what exactly will they be accessing and how?

you do something like this wrong and it'll be completely counter productive, you need to setup guidelines and boundries within the program itself and figure out how you'd want it to react and work.


Rob K
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Posted: 17th Sep 2004 23:04
Quote: "GPL only dictacts you must release source code your *change*, and this is again *only* if you charge for the given product."


That's bull. If you release the modified version to the public you have to release the source, whether you charge for it or not is irrelevant.

From www.gnu.org
Quote: "But if you release the modified version to the public in some way, the GPL requires you to make the modified source code available to the program's users, under the GPL."


I'm not going to debate this matter further.


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1tg46
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 08:26
I will probably release it under the GPL license even though I will not be making the program with VBA but with DarkBASIC using some API functions. As I said I will only be using the basic idea rob had and enhancing the interface to include instant messaging service.

At the moment the program will not have the ability over the net as I have no idea on how to do this, and second I am having enough trouble as is already. Later on if I continue to have problems and other people are interested in helping I would be glad to post in the team requests section so people can help me along with the program.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 09:09
For any new IDE, it should really look & feel like Visual Studio...


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1tg46
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Posted: 18th Sep 2004 09:47 Edited at: 18th Sep 2004 09:49
I've been trying simulate the appearance of some characteristics of Visual Studio.NET. Specific details would be appreciated. Keep in mind I do not Visual Studio .NET, and I am just going by pictures I see of the program.


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Rob K
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2004 17:18
Download the trial version of the Protean IDE for Blitz, I'm pretty sure you don't need to have Blitz installed to run it, and it will give you a good idea of what Visual Studio is like.


BlueGUI:Windows UI Plugin - All the power of the windows interface in your DBPro games.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 02:36
Protean needs you to register it though, annoying popups all over the shop, also it doesn't give you an idea of what the .net ide is like. (bloody horrible thing)

This said, it depends which Visual Studio IDE TCA is talking about.

Visual DevStudio (Visual Basic)
Visual IDE (InterDev)
Visual Developer (Visual C++)

Each have a unique look and feel.
Developer 6.0 is my personal favourite,
7.x (.net) is alright but too cluttered for my likes
8.0 has some awesome new features but i hate the Microsoft 2005 Menu look (bloody horrible Skin)

CodeJack (if you can find an old build) has free examples of 6.0/7.0 Devs, they don't work as actualy ide's just examples of what you can do with thier .net/mfc interface but working enough to get a feel for how they work.


David T
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 03:01
I like the new VB 2005 IDE - very shiny

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Rob K
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 03:19
It would be nice to create a Visual Studio clone, but its not going to be easy work.

VS is clever because it has so much functionality, yet the interface never feels cluttered or overwhelming.

All the other IDEs I use tend to suffer from too much on screen. Delphi for example is fine with a standard set of components but with more advanced editions, it takes ages to load, and a lot of scrolling is required to get to the components you are after on the component tab. KDevelop on Linux looks great, but right click and mouse over "Go To Definition" and a menu pops up which fills the entire screen vertically!


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Tartopom
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 05:35
I support you in you project at 1000%, Good luck and If I can help you .. just ask
1tg46
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 05:54
Great suggestions everyone!

Would it be possible to have sample images of what you would like in the feel of the IDE. And if you are experimenting with anything about the appearance of menus, buttons, etc. then post some code snippets.

And RobK

It seems like BlueGUI v2 will crash the program whenever you try to edit the appearance of gadgets with API commands. Or do you have any luck.
I am really trying as hard as I can to change the appearance of the menus at the moment.

Any other code snippet suggestions please post here.

Anyone that helps in this project will get specifically mentioned in the credits of the program.


I will probably move this forum to the team request forum, but not quite yet. Right now I just need suggestions for the IDE, and when I get enough done I will post all the code in the team request forum for other people's code to be added in and more.

Once again, suggestions now, working later.



1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
1tg46
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 05:59
Does anyone think that my sig is appropriate for this type of program? Can easily be changed.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
JerBil
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 06:08
1tg46, I would like to see an ide that would help handle common tasks such as display resolution, selecting and organizing media to be included in a project and so on. For instance, media would be classified by type, and could be included or removed as needed in one operation. These areas might be accessed by clicking on icons to open other windows.

The ide would then assign unique names to routines to load media, and variable names based on media names. This would be kind of an interactive ide, handling the dirty work automatically.

-JerBil
1tg46
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 08:28
So correct me if I am wrong.

1)You want the different types of media classified into groups that is easily acessible. Sorted by their extension (.jpg,.bmp,.gif,etc.)

2)The IDE would give global variables too common media. Set up like this in a nice window

bitmap variable name
dog.bmp dogimage

dogimage would then become a global variable for the project.

Is this correct?


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
JerBil
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 10:03
For 1), I think that's the general idea.
on 2), I guess it might be a problem for names. The way I'm
programming with names is like below, which I like, but I'm sure
there may be a better way. I just think that to the extent we
can get common tasks automated, the better off DBP will be.
Thanks for listening. -JerBil

load image "menu_off.png",menu_off,1
load image "engine_on.png",engine_on,1
load image "ready_on.png",ready_on,1
jasuk70
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 20:19
Hi another suggestion re source control, maybe allow the use of commands to be assiociated with things like checkin in and submitting changes etc., and maybe default to the CVS commands. (Currenly i use p4 edit, p4 add, p4 submit etc for the different functions)

Jas

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"What is this talk of 'release'? Klingons do not'release' software. It escapes leaving a bloody trail of developers and quality assurance people in its wake!"
Rob K
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Posted: 24th Sep 2004 23:04
Quote: "It seems like BlueGUI v2 will crash the program whenever you try to edit the appearance of gadgets with API commands. Or do you have any luck."


I'd be very surprised - the plugin itself has to use API commands to manipulate the gadgets.
The Windows API was designed with C in mind, and hence it can be difficult to use the API from languages like DarkBASIC without the wealth of features that the C language provides (particularly with regards to pointer support).
Remember of course that you cannot pass a gadget handle to the API, you have to get the window handle using the windowHandle command.
Tell me what you are trying to do and I'll see if I can code something up for you.


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1tg46
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 06:49
@jasuk70
Could you explain a little clearer?

@RobK
What I am trying to do is to change the appearance of buttons using different theme changes. I have been looking at msdn.com and I have been trying to change the appearance of buttons, menus, and windows, but alas with no success. Once I get to my home computer (towards the end of the weekend) I will post what I have been trying to do. Another thing that I have been trying to do is to make the close button in the upper right hand corner of the window, I have been trying to disable that with API commands.

@JerBil
So basically to be able to have the IDE make global variables for media, menus, and anything that needs to be referred too. Correct?


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
Rob K
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 08:41 Edited at: 25th Sep 2004 08:43
@ltg46

You should use canvas gadgets to create custom buttons and so on. In order to change the appearence of a button you need to change it to an owner-drawn button, and then handle the paint messages manually, which you cannot do at the moment. XP themes are applied on a per-application, not per-window basis, and I don't think you can vary the theme used between different applications.

In this respect, Windows is not very flexible.


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1tg46
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 09:25
Well at least I can still experiment.



Others are still welcome to post suggestions anytime.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
1tg46
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Posted: 25th Sep 2004 09:32
Noticed that I gave Raven start in the General Talk / DPRO IDE First Graphic Released forum so I will state very clearly here.


This program is made with DarkBASIC Pro..

Later when this project is further on the way I will put a post in the Team Request forum, and their I may ask for others to help in plugins written in other programing languages, but at the moment I am only working with DBP.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
1tg46
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 00:13
Reaching 1000 lines of code.

1)Been working on the user interface, to make it resemble that of blueIDE.

2)Have worked on a logon process for getting to the IDE.
Two types of accounts, at the moment:
User
Visitor

3)Working with mixed ideas in the menu system


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JerBil
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 10:30
1tg46, I think that's right, but if you have a better idea, thats ok, too. Also, how about checking for unused or infrequently used
variables? In a long program, things get pretty clouded sometimes

-JerBil
Thanatos
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 11:09
Quote: "Also, how about checking for unused or infrequently used
variables? In a long program, things get pretty clouded sometimes"


I could probably make a section in the IDE to show variables that have been created, and how many times that variable appears in the program.


New member of the DarkBASIC Network team:

Thanatos

He can answer any questions that you may have with the program.

If your answers don't seem to be answered right away from him it is because he has a new account and the moderators need approve his posts before they are viewable.

Working with 1tg46 on DarkBASIC Network.
Coming along great.
1tg46
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Posted: 26th Sep 2004 11:34
I was helping thanatos set up his account and forgot to log out and log back on as 1tg46 so what is in his post above is what I meant to put on the forum with my own account not his.

In other words everything that Thanatos said is true, he is working with me in the DarkBASIC network application


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
1tg46
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Posted: 29th Sep 2004 05:42
What are some features that you would like to have easy access too?

Examples of easy access features
(basic ideas in menu, and toolbar)
compile
compile & run
run
debug

(tabbed areas of the editor, on the basic outline of that of BLueIDE)
project data(exe name, version, includes, etc.)
help files
code listed by type in treeview(variables, bookmarks, types, etc.

(unique to DBN not in any other editor)
account info
current users


These are a few examples that you can have easy access too. The places where more easy access features can be in the menu system, toolbar[s?], windows(groups of items that have basically the same principles).

Any suggestions along these lines would be much appreciated.


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
1tg46
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2004 06:25
Thread moved to team requests:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=40242&b=9


1tg46 is my name coding is my game.
ALPHA ZERO PRODUCTIONS
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Posted: 4th Oct 2004 13:04
that would be good

but there is the problem of too much code

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