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Geek Culture / Windows XP Home Edition woes - help!?

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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:13
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Here is my tale of woe (please don't laugh):

At the weekend I downloaded and installed AntiVir Personal Edition on my parent's computer (running Windows XP Home Edition). AntiVir is basically a freeware virus checker. See [href]www.majorgeeks.com[/href]. I then ran it. Although it installed and ran fine immediately afterwards I noticed a huge and dramatic slowdown in the speed of my parent's computer. But I didn't give too much further thought to it and switched the computer off.

Since then the computer has never successfully booted. What has happened since is that the computer boots really really really incredibly slowly. It does eventually get past the intro screen (the Win XP logo and the bar that moves from left to right) after spending about 10 minutes on that screen. Almost immediately afterwards there is a blue screen error message and then the computer crashes and resets. Unfortunately, however, the error message is displayed momentarily and not quick enough for me to read any of it.

My guess is that the virus checker somehow knackered one of the core Win XP boot files.

I'm wondering if anyone has any good ideas about how to fix this problem? I'm loathe to do a reinstall of Win XP because I'm not sure if that will overwrite and destroy my parent's internet and email accounts and personal docs files. Also, wouldn't it mean I'd have to reinstall all the applications like MS Word etc. from scratch?

Can anyone offer any helpful advice to a confused and bewildered bear?

Cheers

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Jimmy
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:14
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I think the "Windows" part is what's wrong.


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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:23
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Thats extremely unhelpful.

Anyway, it seems that booting in Safe Mode throws up a list that reads as follows:

[QUOTE]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\System32\ntaskrnl.exe
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\System32\kdcom.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\System32\bootvid.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\Config\system
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\Config\c_1252.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\Config\c_850.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\Config\l_intl.nls

etc. etc. Actually the list is a lot longer than that but I can't be bothered to type in the whole lot of it.

I worried a bit when I first read this list as I assumed it meant the partition on my parent's HDD had gone to the great big HDD in the sky. However, at the DOS prompt the HDD checks out ok. So I am wondering instead if this is a list from Safe Mode of all the corrupted files?

Thoughts?

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Van B
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:33
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I don't think you can avoid a reinstal - XP is incredibly stubborn when things go wrong and it's always easier to just bite the bullet and start from scratch.

XP is fine, as long as you only ever use Microshaft applications on it .


Van-B


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the_winch
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:47
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Then after you have reinstalled set it to halt on an error instead of reboot. Who knows why they decided showing the message for a fraction of a second and rebooting should be the default.

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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:55
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Now I've got to think of a way to copy across to another computer all the files on the existing HDD to make sure they are not destroyed in any reinstall.

I'm seriously cheesed off.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Ilya
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 08:55 Edited at: 8th Oct 2004 08:58
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Quote: "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsSystem32ntaskrnl.exe
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsSystem32kdcom.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsSystem32bootvid.dll
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsConfigsystem
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsConfigc_1252.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsConfigc_850.nls
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)WindowsConfigl_intl.nls"

That's a list of files you need to delete in order to get Windows to work. Windows can't delete them by itself because it died the second the list was made. AntiVir is a virus that kills your PC. It stands for Anti-Very-Idiotic-Retard. It's purpose is to get rid of all the "stupid" people's computers by crashing them.

(jk)

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 10:46
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Safe Mode will rundown the list of files being loaded.
It should reach 'multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\Windows\System32\DRIVERS\MUP.sys'

this is always the final driver to be loaded, if it isn't reaching that far then the Virus Scanner has taken it upon itself to 'clean' an important file.

while you can simply swap a majority of the Windows files with Base/Service Pack versions (depending on the windows update level), there are a number which are actually specifically compiled for the system it is installed upon.

Hense why XP is pretty reknown for dieing on people who upgrade older systems to something pretty modern.
If it has corrupt a core file, then you'll have no choice but to reinstall; you can view the crash log from the DOS Prompt though.

Unfortunately a Windows Millennium Repair Bootdisk comes in *very* handy here.
The file you want to view is a System/Read-Only/Hidden file called bootlog.log

you'll really need to attrib bootlog.log -s -h before trying to view it. it will be located on your key partition (ie C:\ or the partition which contains the boot information)

That file will outline the problem; but if you don't know what your looking for in the first place it is far better and simpler just to reinstall the OS.
If this machine was bought from some PC Company with XP Pre-Installed; simply call them up and say the machine keeps rebooting after the Windows Logo screen. Try to sound as clueless as possible as they'll send someone out to sort it all out
(saves doing the job yourself)


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 17:10 Edited at: 8th Oct 2004 17:11
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Might be worth trying to boot into Safe Mode, delete the offending anti virus program and boot normally.

If it doesn't then it might be worth investigating whether Restore mode works in Safe Mode.

Finally, you can re-install Windows without wiping out everything (it just deletes and re-installs some Windows files). Unfortunately it doesn't always work (amongst other things, it wont restore the boot sector), in which case your left with no choice but to do a full installation.

In order to copy any data across, I would suggest getting a new HD - that way you wont have installation problems in Safe Mode - and copy everthing important onto there.

Once done, do a re-format (not an installation over windows as that just leaves you with extra rubbish), install XP and go straight to SP2.


UK Convention : 23/24th of October. Be there or be an UNE DODGY PLONKEN
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Van B
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 17:17
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Yeah, it's much easier to copy your important files onto another hard disk - I've used a lot of methods, and they're all pretty slow unless you can get booted up in a networkable state. Safe mode and a spare HD should be ideal.


Van-B


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DeepBlue
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 17:30
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Try to boot from the Windows XP install CD & run a repair (should replace any corrupted Windows files). Ideally after you have uninstalled the AV software (if you could get it to boot in safe mode..if not after).

DeepBlue

The coder formerly known as Twynklet.
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Wiggett
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 18:19
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if you want to back up teh files, try putting the hd in another computer then going into bios and making sure that the comp still boots up in teh original windows, then you should be able to see whats on teh hard drive as if it was just another drive, this might not work though as i hear xp has problems when it isnt teh only runnable system on a machine. but in theory should be ok if you make sure your computer knows which copy of windows to boot from.


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spooky
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 18:55 Edited at: 8th Oct 2004 18:56
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Well if you have not installed anything else you dont mind reinstalling and 'system restore' mode is turned on (usually on by default), you can use Xp's built-in 'system restore' procedure to go back in time to ANY date, restroing system to how it was at that date. All documents and files you have created will remain. this should in theory remove your antivirus proggy AND restore the dodgy windows files it overwrote.

I have had to do it once when I installed an old version of PC Anywhere and it completely knackered my pc.

The best free antivirus proggy by far is AVG from grisoft.com. Does not slow the pc down at all. Even Norton antivirus slows pcs down somewhat.

Boo!
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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 20:23
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Thanks for everyone's helpful suggestions - much appreciated guys.

It seems that in Safe Mode it boots past the Mup.sys file as it follows that with a file in /drivers/ called agp440.sys. That file also seems to boot ok but then the computer effectively freezes.

There is no bootlog.log file anywhere on the computer.

I'm going to try a reinstall I think.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 20:35
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Ok so the reinstall doesn't work because XP can't find any previous version of Windows on the computer and I've only bought the upgrade version of XP. *sigh* All this is doing my head in.

At least I know its not a virus based problem. I've run various checks using Norton's Navdx and the computer comes up clean.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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spooky
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 20:40
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OH, you cannot boot properly. What you then need to do is run system restore from commandline to rewind windows back to just before you installed virus proggy.

Here is how:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=304449

This is what I had to do once when my pc would not even boot in safe mode.

Boo!
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 21:03
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Unfortunately, System Restore cant be relied upon - but hopefully it will work out.


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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 21:07
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The command

bootcfg /scan

is failing. It says this may be due to a corrupt file system and recommends the use of chkdsk. Yet the chkdsk command says the HDD is fine.

Looking more and more like a corrupt file somewhere.

I'm having trouble running Spooky's suggestion. Trying to boot with F8 and going to Safe Mode with command prompt is just causing the computer to freeze. I can get to the command prompt via the Windows installation disk and the repair option but then it refuses to recognise the rstrui.exe command. This is presumably because in Repair mode you are only able to use standard dos commands. Certainly the rstrui.exe file exists - I've checked.

I'm currently trying to create a floppy boot disk with this computer so that I can boot my parent's computer to the command prompt. Then I guess I can run rstrui.exe

Why does everything have to be so flipping complicated??

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Philip
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 21:12
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... and, of course, creating a MS-DOS startup disk with XP does not work. Why does it not work? Because it seems XP creates a Windows Millennium start up disk and as a result it can't find the HDD - c: is an invalid drive specification.

UN-BE-LIEVE-ABLE

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 22:32 Edited at: 8th Oct 2004 22:36
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The idea is that Microsoft want to stop people using the floppy disk drive, and thus use the Recovery Console. Unfortunately the Recovery Console isn't much good...

I would start looking at buying a full copy of XP Home, if I were you - could always put it on expenses...

In addition, I would also think about getting a new HD - if files are corrupt (and you have re-formated it), it could start happening again.

If you want to get stuff off, it looks like your only alternative is to use a Linux system thats runs off a CD, and can access NTFS drives (I think Knoppix will do that).


UK Convention : 23/24th of October. Be there or be an UNE DODGY PLONKEN
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Wiggett
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 23:00
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i still like my idea of puttin the hd in another machine with a system that works, and seeing as your hd is sayign there is no windows it should just read it as another drive. that way you can back up your watned files, then format the drive and re install windows.


http://www.angelfire.com/wizard2/unpotkf
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Neofish
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 23:02
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yes but then they can see long deleted files

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Van B
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Posted: 8th Oct 2004 23:13
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I'd suggest Windows2000, at a push you could still upgrade to XP from that, but for me 2000 is very stable and makes my pathetic PC bearable.

You could'nt install a non-NTFS supporting windows OS without formating first, so that means 2k or XP, it depends on what's available really.

But if it comes to it, well if you can... Make a smaller (about 8gb) partition for your system stuff, and leave the rest for storage (and keep copies of all your drivers there too) - ideally Windows should be disposable, so when things like this happen you just reinstall from the CD and get the drivers from your storage partition.


Van-B


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Benjamin
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 04:31
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I'm having to reinstall WinXP too because loads of things(including DBPro) have stopped working for me for some reason

Peace sells
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 04:34 Edited at: 9th Oct 2004 04:45
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I think I should step in and defend Antivir here I have installed Antivir on ummm! 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 nine PC`s localy, all running XP and all have given no problems, (oh! plus my 3 PC`s), all running fine and Antivir is recognised by security center in SP2 and works OK.
I think the problem may have been there was already a virus on the PC when antivir was installed and it tried to kill Antivir (some virii attack or disable antivirus software if they can) at the same time that Antivir killed it, maybe it was masqurading as a system file or something, I do know that in four years I have never had a virus once, but Antivir has stopped several (with one false alarm from a coverdisk program that was corrected next update)
windows XP sometimes used to show a reluctance too boot occasionaly (before SP2), if you leave it to it`s own devices for a while (go for a meal or do the shopping ) it will be up and running by the time you get back (well ok...in under 5 mins ), crashing after a slow start isn`t normal, system files don`t seem to corrupt in XP though, the whole system is very possesive about the system folder and it`s contents.
from the searchs I did on the problem it could be

(a) a problem with the BIOS ecsd
(b) memory problem http://oca.microsoft.com/en/windiag.asp
(c) XP needs repair (wont delete any files) http://www.short-media.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-2104.html

hope some of that may help, once XP is up and running, you don`t get problems, but DO update every time you are asked too, it`s like buying a Porsche, refuseing a load of free services and add ons the garage decide to offer you (includeing fuel) and then wondering why it stopped, upgrade/update or die is my motto (and I must be doing something right, I never get 1/10000th the problems other people get ), cheers.

Mentor.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 04:42
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Yes, when XP fails, its usually a compounded problem.


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Philip
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 07:41
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Thanks for the further posts.

1. The Windows Memory Diagnostic problem reports no faults.
2. I'd try a restore as Spooky suggests but I can't get to the command line.

Also, all the advice about keeping regular back-ups, etc., is ok but misses the point I'm afraid. I do all that with my computer. But the problem here is with my parents' computer and my parents aren't very computer literate.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Neofish
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 07:50
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on the topic of Windows XP (Pro in this case ) in my Add/Remover Program window there are a load of programs associated to Windows with Hotfix written in the names. I assume that they are just downloaded updates, but I swear that i saw someone say that they aren't meant to be there. Am I just highly paranoid (Spybot: S&D and Ad-aware are installed on my PC)?

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 07:53
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Sounds like you will have to buy a copy of XP Home, I'm afraid... If the command line restore doesn't work, and it doesn't work from Safe Mode, I dont think you've got much choice.

At least then you'll be able to either do a reinstallation and/or reformat and then install.


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Philip
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 08:59
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Well I installed a new version of Win XP Home using my version of it (which is an install from blank and not an upgrade version). I was hoping that this would at least give me access to the command prompt and from there I could do a restore of the old install's restore points.

The new install works fine - no problems at all. However, it seems its wiped all the restore points of the old install.

:-(

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 19:27 Edited at: 9th Oct 2004 19:28
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you didn`t try the repair???
anyway, just posting to mention that there seem to be two versions of antivirus software out there called antivir, the one I was so streniously defending is a german program with a red and white umberella logo, the other thing with the "easter island" type logo I have no firsthand knowledge of.

Mentor

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Wiggett
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Posted: 9th Oct 2004 20:19
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ok so what you're saying is you wiped the drive and installed a new xp?? caus exp doesnt copy twice to the same drive.... did you try my idea of backign up your files first?


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Philip
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Posted: 10th Oct 2004 23:02
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No, I didn't wipe the drive. I just reinstalled a new version of Win XP to a new directory. So I've now got two installations of Windows on the same drive, albeit only one works.

I couldn't try a repair for the reasons explained above.

The version of AntiVir that ruined the old installation was made by a German company and has a red and white umbrella logo.

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Wiggett
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Posted: 10th Oct 2004 23:31
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umbrella co?? holy crap the germans are making zombies!
nah usually xp doesnt like installing more than one copy on the same pc let alone thesame drive, but i guess if it didnt recognize the first one then maybe it doesnt notice. but now that you have a working copy, back up the necessary files then wipe the whole drive, then re install windows.


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Jess T
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Posted: 11th Oct 2004 00:02
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Philip,
I have to agree with Uber there...

Firstly, take out the HDD, plug it into yours as a Slave, then copy across all your wanted files, and settings, anything that you want to keep.

Now, once you've done that, that's when you should start tinkering with reinstalling, and/or restoring.

If you have copied across all the wanted files, and the HDD is basically clean of files that aren't disposable, then just reformat.
If you don't want to reformat, then I suggest you try to do a repair using a Win98 Boot disk, and/or the XP Home CD you have ( only need to use the boot disk if you can't access the CD from boot )... Alternatly, you can just get a DOS boot disk, does the same job, all you need to do is be able to execute the repair commands on the CD

Failing all that, I suggest taking at it with a baseball bat

Jess.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 11th Oct 2004 00:36
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yeah but he says he already has got windows running again using a second install of windows, so now he can just brun backup cd's or copy the files across to another drive, but either way he must still format. and restart it cant have two copies installed will stuff thigns up huge


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 11th Oct 2004 05:03
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I would suggest making a backup of all important data and the format & re-install - aside from two copies of XP taking up space, one doesn't work and could be the start of some bad sectors.


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