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Geek Culture / the beginning of the end..

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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 01:21
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http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/11/aol_axes_nullsoft/

the end of winamp??

OF WINAMP?? I grew up with winamp This one isn't made up.. either.. like the way I killed Domakles.. this one's for real

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 01:27
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That's very sad indeed. Winamp's a great program and a fantastic free program. This ought to stand as a warning to anyone tempted by the cash large corperations offer...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 01:34
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Nothing is stopping the rerelease of it in the form it was; a simple rename and rewrite. It's the talent that makes a program, not the publisher.

That said, was never particularly impressed with WinAmp from day one.. it's good if you have nothing much else, but Media Player and iTunes just make it so antiquated and obsolete it is beyond a joke.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 01:40
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O_o winamp 5 can do anything media player can...

Winamp is also less on resources than media player, and far better organized, as well as hundreds of plugins and skins available..

Mediaplayer is awful

Granted Winamp3 was never any good, that's why I stuck to 2.xx, until my brother pointed out that winamp5 was not the hog and buggy version 3 was..

I'll be using the current release until something new comes along

..I'm not even going to discuss iTunes *blugh*

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 02:32
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Media Player makes WinAmp antiquated? Someone has no clue what they're talking about, again . Check the feature lists-- WinAmp does everything MP does and a lot more. Period.

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Chris K
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 02:37
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Can you minimise it then still control it from the little minimise bar?

You know how MP does that? It has the buttons on the minimised tab thing on the task bar.

That's my favourite feature of WMP.

I use WMP 10 and WMP Classic which plays literally anything. It's best if you get Real & Quicktime alternatives as well.
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 02:39
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uh, you can make winamp as thing as a toothpick and still be able to control it...

granted not down at the taskbar, but you can make it always on top, and stick it wherever you want.. but there's probably plugins available to put it in the taskbar as well

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 02:53
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Quote: "winamp 5 can do anything media player can..."


It cannot do..

Surround Sound, SRS Enhanced Sound, Perfect Image Scaling, Perfect DivX Playback (only seems to play certain frames), Full Customisable Skins, Taskbar Control WITH Video, Drag'n'Drop Burning & Ripping, Web-station Browsing, Web-Shop Browsing->Purchase->Play, MMDB, Built-in Web broadcasting, Built-in Webcast Synronisation, Explorer Style Media Database & License Control, Lyric Display & Sync Control.

As for the memory footprint, on this system:
Media Player : Idle ( 1MB ) : Taskbar (3MB) : Visualisation (18MB)
Winamp5 : Idle (500KB) : Minimised (4MB) : Visualisation (22MB)

Winamp has always been trailing the competitors, webcast is one of the major areas. Winamp will play something until it's buffer runs out, iTunes and Media Player will Automatically compensate any connection variances unless they are too large and the buffer runs out.

This isn't to mention the pure integration with DirectX and DirectMedia which allows you to have true 3D Visualisations. There are only a few right now, but it's a difference all the same.


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Oraculaca
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:01
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Just wondering since I dont use it but does media player have support for the creative remote control?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:01 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 03:04
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I use wmp for burning cds, only because it's a simpler process for me, because of the way I make my cds

Winamp is fully skinnable..

Winamp also allows you to browse shoutcast quite easily, has db plugins if it's not a builtin feature already (can't remember), and you can also get the shoutcast plugin to host your own music, also has plugins for lyrics..

I've never used winamp for video anyway, but it can render videos just fine..

If it's not built in then there's plugins around for it, which aren't that hard to find as it's all in one place and downloading plugins is certainly worth the time rather than having only the features in which you are assigned. Using the plugins is also a decent way to get rid of features you don't use which would just consume memory.

And the media library is far superior to wmp.

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:04
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Quote: "Surround Sound"


What? I'm running WinAmp right now and it works fine with 5.1 surround speakers.

Quote: "Perfect Image Scaling"


It works fine.

Quote: "Perfect DivX Playback"


Again, it works fine.

Quote: "Full Customisable Skins"


They're fully customizable.

Quote: "Built-in Web broadcasting, Built-in Webcast Synronisation"


Because it's not bloatware. It's offered as a free extra instead of being forced on people who'll never use it.

Quote: "Explorer Style Media Database & License Control"


Emphasis mine-- ick


I'll grant the remaining points, as as far as I know Winamp can't do them. However, Winamp's memory use on my system is far lower. It also supports more media types, loads faster, has a far more intuitive and intelligent playlist system, a better visualization database, and crashes less damn often.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:22
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Quote: "What? I'm running WinAmp right now and it works fine with 5.1 surround speakers."


Yeah, I use 5.1 Surround Speakers... it still outputs the actual sound in Stereo, not Surround. If you can't tell the difference then I feel VERY sorry for you.

Really you have perfect image scaling? So no matter what resolution you have Winamp at, it displays the image smoothly and quickly?
Because on my system it doesn't, when you have it larger than 1x it starts getting aweful artifacts and jaggies.

As for DivX playback.. you must again be a lucky bugger, because all of the systems i've tried Winamp to run DivX movies on, it will stutter, and sometime stop altogether.
Media Player does this when your drivers are good enough for the DivX you are viewing, but WinAmp ALWAYS does this.

Quote: "They're fully customizable."

Really? Because from what i've seen... you can change the theme, but you must still have the same dumbass layout. The Media Player ones are quite inventive; in particular HL2 and ALX versions.

Quote: "Because it's not bloatware. It's offered as a free extra instead of being forced on people who'll never use it."

3rd Party Offerings that don't quite live up to what I'd call user-friendly or stable.

Those features in Media Player provide you with OPTIMISED, (you know what that word means right?) features; so that When you are watching or broadcasting webcasts you have the best service your connection and computer can provide. Syncronisation makes sure you don't miss a thing on live webcasts if your lagging! Which i've found invaluable over the years.

I just remembered another point of what iTunes and Media Player can do that Winamp can't... Browser Intergration.
Internet Explorer and FireFox both have full support for Media Player controls within them in some fashion as well as in webpages.

What's more YOU DONT HAVE TO PAY TO USE ALL OF THESE FEATURES!
That is something that peeves me off about Winamp, everything worth while using COSTS, either through subscription or some money grabbing 3rd party developer.

Why the hell should I pay out $35-40 for something which comes free, integrated and with more features with Windows?


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:47 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 03:47
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O_o you don't need to pay for decent 3rd party plugins, and if you do there's probably free ones right next to em, and those plugins are not always buggy, it depends on how and who developed them.. It's open source stuff, sometimes it's poor, sometimes it's great..

And yes every button and everything in winamp is fully customizable, and obviously you haven't browsed their skins..

And my winamp does everything that wmp does but better..

No I don't use winamp for movies, it's for music, I use wmp for any sort of movies I may use, short of music videos, which winamp does a fine job of..

I mean seriously, when's the last time you watched a movie in wmp?? If you're watching dvd's you're probably using windvd or whatever, and any videos you download are good for the trash But even at that winamp will play them just fine..

But as strictly a music program, it's bar none.

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:49
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Quote: "Quote: "What? I'm running WinAmp right now and it works fine with 5.1 surround speakers."

Yeah, I use 5.1 Surround Speakers... it still outputs the actual sound in Stereo, not Surround. If you can't tell the difference then I feel VERY sorry for you.
"


from the f.a.q:-
Quote: "
Does Winamp support Surround Sound in 4.1 or 5.1 outputs?
No, Winamp 5 currently does not support any form of Surround Sound. You may download third party Winamp Plug-ins that enable this in our Plug-ins section."


To repeat my earlier question , does media player support the Creative remote control at all?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:51
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if there's a plugin around... sure

*me uses google*
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=Creative+remote+control+winamp+plugin

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:58
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er Ive got the WINAMP plugin. It is Winamp that I use at the moment, im asking if there is support in WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER sorry I should have put the WINDOWS bit in to avoid confusion.

Quote: "To repeat my earlier question , does media player support the Creative remote control at all?"
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 03:59
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Quote: " does media player support "


I should've read more closely

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:07
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Quote: "I mean seriously, when's the last time you watched a movie in wmp?? If you're watching dvd's you're probably using windvd or whatever, and any videos you download are good for the trash But even at that winamp will play them just fine.."


last nite, watched Pirates of the Carribean
never even tried WinAmp for DVDs considering it's AVI/MPG quality is just so aweful.

Also you might be good to note that I watch ALOT of movies/videos on a regular basis.
Portfolio Reel playback, General Cinematics, TV Episodes (Invader Zim, GiTS:SAC, Stargate Atlantis (although Sky is showing it now), etc..). Windows needs a 3rd party DLL for DVDs, but that's because of legal reasons. I use nVIDIA.DVD very very good quality playback and sound.

Quote: "if there's a plugin around... sure

*me uses google*
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=Creative+remote+control+winamp+plugin"


See that's the thing, I don't have to search for plug-in's or Codecs.. if it is something that Media Player doesn't have, it'll automatically search online for it. Bish Bash Wallop, it works without frets. But this is pretty rarely that I have top worry about it.

Yes Media Player has Creative Remote Control; it is 100% compatible. Not surprising considering that is what it was originally designed for


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:17
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aye, but why flood your system with stuff you'll never use

and besides, I never said winamp was the ultimate video program, It wasn't originally designed as such, and it's only second best because of it's late start

But again, for music and music alone it's *the* best.

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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:27
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Quote: "This ought to stand as a warning to anyone tempted by the cash large corperations offer..."


As an aside, they would be fools to not accept the millions of dollars for a FREE program. Sure WinAMP has licensed versions, but they were bought out during the tech boom and they should thank their lucky stars. Now they can retire and set up a comfortable life for their future generations.

Money isn't everything, no, but it is about 99%

Quote: "I mean seriously, when's the last time you watched a movie in wmp?? "


Um, pretty much every time I watch a movie on my comp, it's through WMP. I have WinDVD as well, but it's not as organized. WMP can do everything WinAMP can do and more-- it's pretty hard to argue against that fact.


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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:30
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Sorry for the double post, but:

Quote: "The team, which AOL acquired in 1999 for $100m"

Source: Linked Article

That is a TON of money for what? Something that's given away for free!?! This kind of deal will probably never appear again, and they were in the right place at the right time. I doubt even you, Mouse, could turn down $100m cash when you're an 18 year old programmer (like Justin Frankel (sp?) was at the time.)


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:32
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aye.. but now it's not even going to be updated anymore...

aol bought it to end up destroying it

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Jeku
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:35
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At least we can still use Winamp 5 if we want. Just make sure you keep the setup file


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:36
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aye to that

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:39
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Quote: "Yes Media Player has Creative Remote Control; it is 100% compatible. Not surprising considering that is what it was originally designed for"


Cheers.

Would the remote not have been designed for creatives media source player which was supplied with the card?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:44
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http://www.winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=138849

Don't think wmp can do that

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:48
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It's a sad day indeed. I love Winamp and I will continue to use it.


"And C++ has 2 version Microsoft visual C++ and Bordland C++."
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:59
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http://www.wmplugins.com/ ... check for youself

Media Player is capable of matching anything that WinAmp can do, as well as doing more from the get go.
I don't think your realise just how indepth the Media Player community is, nor do you quite understand the full abilities given to developers with the SDK.

Quote: "It's a sad day indeed. I love Winamp and I will continue to use it."


get XMMS from Sourceforge then, does the same bloody things; just isn't a pro release is all. I'm sure once WinAmp is officially gone or rather *if* because it is a big part of AOLs browser, then everyone will flock to this clone.

Tell ya what, if I'd been given $100mil for something i'd created; i'd retire and do whatever i pleased all day!


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CattleRustler
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 04:59
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comes down to what you wanna use.

I was never a fan or user of winamp until very recently when I got turned onto shoutcast broadcasting. The latest version of winamp is quite uber when it comes to audio, altho I am not wild about it for video. The Shoutcast stuff is phenominal imho.

to each his own.


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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 05:03
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Quote: "Tell ya what, if I'd been given $100mil for something i'd created; i'd retire and do whatever i pleased all day!"


Now, I didn't say the devvers were stupid for selling out. I wouldn't give a lick about what my community thought of it should I be offered $100m But I'm just saying it's too bad aol sucked the life of it...

Now WMP has it's uses, but casual music isn't one of em

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 07:10
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Quote: "Money isn't everything, no, but it is about 99% "


True... I wasn't throwing in a jab at the capitalist system, I was more reffering to the dangers of being bought out. You'll be doing great as long as the mother corperation's analysts think you'll keep bringing in enough profit or popularity, but as soon as you start heading down, you're gone, no chance of redemption as you'd have if your business was solo. Plus, if said big corperation (generally publisher) goes down, you go down with them, your own property rights getting sold out to other developers (see NWC>3DO>Ubisoft). I think the best thing is to remain independant and not become a subsidiary unless you don't plan to last long anyways.

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Oraculaca
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 07:23
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Quote: "Yes Media Player has Creative Remote Control; it is 100% compatible. Not surprising considering that is what it was originally designed for"


Ah you must be thinking of some other 'Creative Remote Control' because it looks like I will need Uice to make media player compatible with my RM-1000w
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 07:27
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Odd, it should work out of the box provided the Windows drivers are working.


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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 08:48
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Screw you raven, I am using Winamp, not some god damn clone.


"And C++ has 2 version Microsoft visual C++ and Bordland C++."
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Preston C
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 08:55
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How bout you all shut up and realise the best is in the eye of the beholder (and thank god the beholder isn't looking at us, huh?).

My personal pro's and cons:

Winamp Pro's:
*Plays music wonderfully
*Takes up less mem than WMP ever will when playing music
*Doesn't crash on me a lot
*Nice Internet Video and Radio stations, plenty of jazz

WMP Pro's:
*Plays videos great, where on my system, they sometimes falter on Winamp
*Has a streaming format thats I find to be more popular than any others
*Scares my brother when he looks at it
*A lot of Internet Radio stations

Winamp Cons:
*Playing video's can sometimes be a problem

WMP Cons:
*Whenever I close it or switch to a different video by double clicking it in explorer, it freezes, and I have to kill it through task manager
*After being killed, takes another five minutes to re-open again
*The skins are horrible in my opinion
*The visualizations suck too
*Jazz stations are also bad

I use both honestly, one for music, one for video, and I have no complaints (except for the five minute freeze thing since I upgraded to WMP9).

So, I suggest you all just choose what you want to choose, and walk off, and not start a flame war, k?

Cheers,
Preston


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Andy Igoe
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 09:22
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The article linked at the top says that we should pay our respects and give thanks to what has been...

Rubbish, the guy made a mint out of winamp. I'm not paying a penny! I'll send a begging letter though...


Which is the biggest tool? The computer, or the muppet who invented it?
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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 09:49
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LOL

^_^ Again, it's not the fact that he sold out.. it's the fact that aol really could probably care less

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Ian T
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 13:07
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How did that probably sneak into your sentence ?

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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 22:27
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Though I assume it's the case, I can't rightly speak for AOL, because I'm not employed there

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 20th Nov 2004 04:24
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sad day for my radio station.

http://teh1337server.no-ip.com/radio

shame, but lucky i found ways of streaming to windows media playr and other things... but winamp was th ebest music client i ever tried out

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