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Geek Culture / what is a good graphics card?

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that dude
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Location: USA
Posted: 18th Nov 2004 10:47
i am getting a new graphics card, and i was wondering which one would help me get the most out of dbp.

http://www.nuclearglory.com/?u=fearik = sweet as hell collision system. easy on that leather thing in your back pocket too.
the left side of my head isn't bigger, the right side is just smaller
Mobiius
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 10:48
the one i'm selling, do you want it?

1800+ XP - GeforceFX 5600 - 256MbDDR - 60Gb Hdd - XP Pro
Nicholas Thompson
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Location: Bognor Regis, UK
Posted: 18th Nov 2004 10:51
Hahaha.. Wow what timing.. Right place, right time

I like ATI's.. I have a 9800XT which if you can find anywhere on the internet now (and in stock) you're a lucky so and so! They seem to be down now to the low-end 9800's and a few X800's. This to me says they're DAMNED popular as not many places have them in stock..

I was recently helping a friend look around for a new GFX Card.. I noticed that generally, there were always LOADS of Geforce's in stock and only a few ATI's in stock. This tells me either people are buying ATI Radeon's in favour of Geforces (leaving lots in stock) OR EVERY shop made the same ordering mistake

Mobiius
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 10:53 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 10:53
ATI = Poo!
NVidia = Good!
Id reccomend the GeForce FX5600. Its what I eun. And mine only cost £80, brand new from PC World!
I was pleased THAT day!

*Edit, Get a new motherboard and run SLI mode geforce 6's!

1800+ XP - GeforceFX 5600 - 256MbDDR - 60Gb Hdd - XP Pro
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 10:57
Why do you say ATI's are poo? Is it because ATI ENGINEERED a card rather than bolting two processors into 1 card and overclocking the smeg out of it? Or is it because most Geforces now requires at least 2 Expansion slots (I have heard of a Geforce requiring 3, but have not seen pics)? Or is it the because of the better picture quality the ATI gives? Or the generally better performace?

Hehe... My opinion (mostly back-up-able by stats)..

Seriously tho, why? The only time I have seen these geforces out do an AIT is when the AntiAliasing it wanged up or the Anastrophic Filtering is high and this is only due to those previously mentioned two processors..

Mobiius
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:01
It's cos i say so!

1800+ XP - GeforceFX 5600 - 256MbDDR - 60Gb Hdd - XP Pro
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:02 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 11:06
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.. This would be the third edit..

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20041004/vga_charts-12.html


Mobiius
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:04
you had to bring the facts!

1800+ XP - GeforceFX 5600 - 256MbDDR - 60Gb Hdd - XP Pro
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:07 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 11:09
Note in that little game how your precious Geforces (top of the range ones too) are getting the rosey buttocks whipped by a mere Radeon 9700 (2 year old technology )

[EDIT] Also notice how in nearly all the tests, the X800 XT PE is top of the list, and often by a long way..

The only times the Geforces tend to pull back is when AntiAiliasing or Anastrophic Filtering is enabled.

[EDIT 2]
Btw: Mobiius, Dont take any of this personally, I'm just debating my point to you.. If you can convince me Geforces are better at the moment, I'll more than willingly stand down..

Dot Merix
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:08 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 11:11
Unfortuneately that's only one game.. I hear the top nvidia card plays doom 3 better than any ati card right now.

In anycase, i'm not trying to support nvidia.. I like Ati myself and have an Ati Radeon 9800pro 128mb card which i just bought this past summer, and it works great... To fully get all that you can get from it though, make sure you have a good supply of ram, i suggest ATLEAST 512mb.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Dot Merix
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:10 Edited at: 18th Nov 2004 11:10
From the same site you listed...

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040809/doom3-02.html

Nvidia's cards have better shader support while the Radeon's have better direct x support.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 11:18
That is true, BUT remember Doom 3 was made for Geforces as was Half Life 2 made for ATI..

Its funny, TomsHardware claimed Geforces were DX 9.0c whereas X800 XT PE's were 9.0b.. Hmm...

Van B
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 19:44
If it's for DBPro, Geforce chipsets are better suited, especially the shader side of things. I only have an FX5200, but that's fine for my needs, it easily outperforms the ATI equivalent (9200). That's like a dirt cheap card though, basically the more you spend the better the card, just be sure to do your research online first, PC shop owners tend to know naff-all.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Nov 2004 23:16
Wasn't this in the DBP Forum lst night?! OR was I really THAT tired?!

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 19th Nov 2004 02:04
For DarkBASIC Professional GeForce cards are much better suited, mainly because basically the entire team uses them, so any bugs that appear on ATI aren't caught until public betas; sometimes not even then.

As for everything else, it depends on which generation.
OpenGL is NVIDIA country, always has been, and despite the XSeries claiming to be the only OpenGL 2.0 cards; it always will be. That said, only a handful of games each year for the PC user OpenGL so it makes little odds in the big picture.

Big Picture wise is DirectX, Shader Support & Speed.
This is where things get a little tricky, this is basically the speed chart for adverage games; remember there will be exceptions to this as cards are 'optimised' for more popular games and programs.

Lower on the chart, and Left of Equivilant is faster:

GeForceFX 5200 - Radeon 9200
Radeon 9550 - GeForce 5300
Radeon 9600 - GeForce 5600
GeForce 4Ti - Radeon 8500
GeForce 5700 - Radeon 9700
Radeon 9800 - GeForce 59x0
GeForce 6200 - Radeon X300
GeForce 6600 - Radeon X600 / X700
GeForce 6800 - Radeon X800

Equivilant in end names are:

GeForceFX - Radeon 9Series
LE - SE
.. - ..
Ultra - XT

GeForce 6Series - Radeon XSeries
.. - ..
GT - PRO
Ultra - XT
Extreme - Platinum

Run down on Shader & DirectX Support

GeForceTi - DirectX8.1 .. Max Shader VS1.1, PS1.3 (PS1.4 - 4800)
Radeon 8500 - DirectX8.1 .. Max Shader VS1.1 PS1.4
Radeon 9Series - DirectX9.0 .. Max Shader VS2.0, PS2.0
GeForceFX - DirectX9.0 .. Max Shader VS2.0, PS2.a
Radeon XSeries - DirectX9.0b .. Max Shader VS2.0, PS2.b
GeForce 6Series - DirectX9.0c .. Max Shder VS3.0, PS3.0

Also remember to note, that Doom3 is an NVIDIA Game and Half-Life2 is a Radeon game; from the benchmarks run it has been determined that..

Under Doom3 each GeForce was capable of outperforming the equivilant Radeon by 10fps, in some cases 25fps.
Under Half-Life2 each Radeon was capable of outperforming the equivilant Geforce by 5fps, in the current card generation (6Series) the max gap was 8fps, in the previous generation (FX Series) the max gap was 20fps.

You can take from this what you will, but considering the GeForce's driver stability history in the widest range of games; plus NVIDIAs ability to seriously optimise the performance of thier cards, leading to the entire FX-Series gaining a 20-44% speed boost over the last year.. it would say to me that combined with thier ability for next generation technology makes them the more sound choice.

Personally speaking, my GeForce have been able to run more games without problem out-of-the-box than any of my Radeons. I feel that is a little more important than 5fps more when you card is already pushing 60+ FPS.


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