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Geek Culture / Gotta love Square

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Great Knight
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 12:06
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I went back to the Chrono trigger remake game. Well no more remake any more.
Looks like Square sent them a nice letter to Stop working on it. So that will give you guys a Hint. Square is not a very Friendly Company towards remakes. I am starting to hate them. They are also lacking in good games.

http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/

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Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 12:17
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Wow, that game was looking pretty cool as well. It's always interesting to find out which companies try to shut down fan games and which ones promote them, although, when you do get a C&D letter like they did, it's a good indication that your game is looking very, very good.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
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Dot Merix
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 12:44
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@Epo: Yeah, that's pretty old news actually, happened awhile ago.. i actually remember the day because it was in a bunch of gaming news.

It really looked fantastic, however, one of the reasons could be that they're working on a remake themselves. The other part is the fact that they dont want indie developpers to show exactly what indie developpers can do... Make games just as good as major company's. I was looking very forward to it, and i will no longer support/buy any more of Square's products. I've also deleted any accounts i've had with final fantasy 11 etc.

I've also told my friends the story and they agree that these are indeed the -Dark Square Days-. It's a shame.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 13:51
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Really can't blame them for wanting to protect their copyright. It would be worse for them if they DIDN'T do something about it, otherwise it will be hard to enforce their copyright in the future if there is a worse case of infringement.

I don't agree with it, especially if the indie game would be free, but that's the sad case with copyright law.


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GothOtaku
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 14:14
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Yeah, I remember when a bunch of people were modding Warcraft 3 to emulate Starcraft and Blizzard issued them a cease and desist order. These things suck but are sometimes necessary in the buisness world.
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Fridge R Raider
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 15:09
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im sorry but i have to give it to square on this one. We all work hard at developing our games whether its the story or code or whatever and that goes for the major companies as well. I know that if i made a great game like Chrono Trigger that i wouldnt want anyone trying to remake it if it wasnt under my supervision. If anyone has ever played an rpg before then they know that there's something special about each character in that game and if one little thing was changed to that character or what not then it could totally run the game and what the apperence might be for Squares original game as well. I dont blame square at all for taking these measures.

I'm a man on a mission, a mission so huge it could mean life or death, a mission to the fridge.
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Dave J
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 20:28
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I disagree, remaking a game is a tribute to the original and it shows the developers how dedicated the fanbase is, it can even go as far as drawing more people to the franchise - I can honestly say I've never been a large CT fan but that remake definately caught my eye. I do see the reasons for shutting down fan games, however, in this case, Square knew about the game long before shutting it down, and it wasn't until it started to gain large public appeal that they decided to send the C&D order. This leads us to believe that Square are simply fealing threatened by the game and fearing it will damage future sales, this is fair enough, and we can easily see why Square would shut-down the game.

What bothers me, is that they didn't offer any other options for the developers of the remake, with the prime example being Bid For Power (A Quake 3 Mod based on DBZ), they were given the offer to recreate their game for distribution under a licensed engine. Then we also have Valve, who took 'Codename Gordon', a relatively small Half-Life fan game (which probably wouldn't affect sales anyway) and provided it for distribution through Steam. In reality, I would be surprised if Square actually did something like that, but it's still saddening to hear of a company waiting until a remake is so far into development before pulling the plug and sending the legal papers.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 21:18
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Actually I don't think there is anything wrong with what they've done..
LucasArts do this with every single fan-game; apart from those who actually ask permission first. See this is something all these fan games forget to do, and without permission when a project gets popular enough or stumbled on by accident .. they *will* shut it down.

Simple fact is, unless you nip things in the bud each time you get them comming up; you leave yourself wide-open to those who could take advantage of it.

The game is looking very good, and really it would be a shame for them to sit down and say 'well that's it, Square-Enix have shut us down' .. The Bid For Power boys firmly stuck 2-fingers up at Funimation by remodelling the characters and releasing BfP, THEN releasing as a 3rd party model pack, the original models.

I think, if you let a C&D order actually stop something then what the heck were you wasting all of that time doing for?
Surely they didn't think a company would just let them out of the goodness of thier hearts.

Codename Gordon, was something which was quick thinking on the part of the developers. As they were threatened to be shut down too; but instead they made a deal with Valve.

Personally I think with all that hard work, I don't see why they don't just alter the storyline, the characters and make thier own 'ChronoTigger' game. Could hint at being in the same universe, perhaps some similar placenames; it is usually the characters and design of them that tend to be copyright.




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bitJericho
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 22:45
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aye that's exactly what I was thinking, why not be original?

You have the engine, just change the graphics and make an original story line.

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Jeku
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2004 23:19
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Quote: "who took 'Codename Gordon', a relatively small Half-Life fan game (which probably wouldn't affect sales anyway) and provided it for distribution through Steam."


That's completely different, though. Codename Gordon could not be mistaken for the original Half-Life, and only an idiot would play Codename Gordon and decide not to play a future Half-Life because of it.

This CT remake could affect future sales, and a copyright holder is REQUIRED to fight infringement, or they will have a harder time fighting it in the future (with precedents, etc.). They can't slip on a trademark.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 06:14
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All it takes is permission.. it's down to the fan dev-team to ask for it, not for the copyright holder to issue it.

It's like, remember when you were a teen (easy for most of you) and you decided to 'borrow' the family car for something. You know damn well if you'd just asked you'd of been allowed it, but you took it anyways because you felt it was no big deal.

You'll get chewed out on the 'principal' of the matter, not because of what you've done. It's the same thing here


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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 06:58
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But you've failed to defend your own corner; Square's moral right in shutting down the project. If they cut it, there's no way they would have said yes if permission had been asked. So that's a moot point .

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Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:17
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Quote: "That's completely different, though. Codename Gordon could not be mistaken for the original Half-Life, and only an idiot would play Codename Gordon and decide not to play a future Half-Life because of it.

This CT remake could affect future sales, and a copyright holder is REQUIRED to fight infringement, or they will have a harder time fighting it in the future (with precedents, etc.). They can't slip on a trademark."


I think you missed the point of my post completely, especially as you just restated everything I said.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:50
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Quote: "But you've failed to defend your own corner; Square's moral right in shutting down the project. If they cut it, there's no way they would have said yes if permission had been asked. So that's a moot point ."


not really, LucasArt do it all the time. you ask permission they let you do things, such-as Star Wars Mods for HL2/D3/etc.. but if you don't ask, and go ahead; then they have to shut you down.
Once you've been shut down there is little chance they can give you permission without leaving themselves open like just letting copyright slip.

alright so it isn't a 'done' deal if you ask permission, sometime they will say no; but atleast you don't waste 6-12months or more of your life working on something just for the plug to be pulled.


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Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 09:22
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Quote: "not really, LucasArt do it all the time."


Once again you sidetrack the argument. We're not talking about what LucasArts does, we're talking about Square's moral right in denying permission for this project to continue.

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Great Knight
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 10:36
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I still think Square should let them continue. Every one knows Square Soft made the original game and now Square Enix owns it. So no one will be fooled. Plus in the Begining of most remakes they do mention the real trademarks. Square could of helped support the game and heck that could of saved them time from making there own remake of a game. If i were the people that was making the game, I would be PO at square and either just make my own game with the engine to show off square or make a remix from antoher game from a friendlier company.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 11:03
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Quote: "Once again you sidetrack the argument. We're not talking about what LucasArts does, we're talking about Square's moral right in denying permission for this project to continue."


No, your the one who sidetracked the argument with this moral right crap.. I don't see how the heck it has anything to do with morality.

They have a legal obligation, and a legal right. I would suggest you try not to get Morality and Legality confused, as that could be quite dangerous later in life.

Quote: "I still think Square should let them continue. Every one knows Square Soft made the original game and now Square Enix owns it. So no one will be fooled. Plus in the Begining of most remakes they do mention the real trademarks. Square could of helped support the game and heck that could of saved them time from making there own remake of a game. If i were the people that was making the game, I would be PO at square and either just make my own game with the engine to show off square or make a remix from antoher game from a friendlier company."


They didn't ask permission, what did they expect? A Ticker-Tape Parade.. Square-Enix are within thier rights to shut down a game which in-fringes on thier legal copyright.

a/ doing this is ILLEGAL, as in AGAINST THE LAW. No matter how good your intentions are.
b/ if they allowed one team who didn't ask permission, this means any further cases they had against others; perhaps another game development company, conserning the Copyright materials.. would suddenly fall apart leaving thier stuff open for the vulture Lawyers.

Believe me Laywers do not need extra ammo in order to try and blow apart someone elses case. If they did that they might as well package up the Copyright and hand it to the next person who walks past thier office, cause once you tip your hand in the business world.. everyone takes a peice for all it's worth.

In the friendly world of fandom, everything is lollypops and fuzzy wuzzy bears; over that wall into the real world are beasts that ripp anything apart they can lay thier hands on.

Again, without a clear understanding of the differences between these world.. anyone trying to play in them both is in for a world of hurt.

They should've known better, end-of-story.


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GothOtaku
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 11:40
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For once I agree completely with Raven. It's completely up to Square Enix wether or not to allow them to use their material. For all you know they could've thought it was a horrible rendition or maybe they're contractually obligated somehow not to give any other company the rights to use their characters. Yes, they could've given them the rights to do so since it was a tribute but they had every right to shut it down if they didn't want to give them that right for whatever reason.
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