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Hi,

What is the best format to allow me to have re-useable animations? For example, I want to create a walk anim that I can then apply to different models (assuming some basic rules, e.g. all models have the same limb structure etc).. saving the need to re-animate manually each model.

Toyed with the idea of doing a custom format/program to help do this, but I figured something would already exist, and something hopefully DBP compatible.

I also think Character Shop does something similar to what I'm asking?

Cheers

I think the .can format allows you to save animations. I'm not sure if this is the best one though.

Best to google "animation formats", or do a search at GameDev.

The programs exist for it.. the main problem is 'DBP compatible'.
As the DBP Skeletal System is, well.. erm.. useless.

Sorry but it is. If they'd just left in the ability to animate limbs from a keyframed animation format like in DarkBASIC, we could VERY easily export animations in a way we can reuse them.

While it can be said 'but that's redundant because we no longer need to use Hierachy Mesh', as they've make the skeletons load as Hierachy Mesh (Limbs) then taken away our animation Keyframining abilities.. it's like giving us some shiney new boots them shooting out our kneecaps!

You'll have to make your own system in order to update frames and such, but I believe the easiest way to do it would be through the old DB Animation Format.. If I had time, would whip up something for it, but unfortunately I don't.

.X ascii is the leading contender for this newbie 3D modeler/animator because...



Raven has touched on my biggest complaint about Dark Basic Pro vs. Dark Basic Classic. But it is possible to produce the keyframed animations in DBC, save them to disk, and then append them to objects you can use in Pro, using...

(brace yourself)...

... Notepad.

When you're done laughing, or barfing, or both, I'll explain: the very useful keyframed animations Raven refers to, written to disk in DBC with SAVE OBJECT ANIMATION and re-used later with APPEND ANIMATION, are essentially ASCII .X data that can be copied and pasted into an ASCII .X model file, provided that (as L. Worm says) the limb structure is the same.

You've got to drop the animation data into the correct spot, and remove an ASCII header tag that seems to otherwise identify the animation data as a separate file, but it does work. I just animated a couple WW II tanks that I purchased (textured but not animated) from a company in the UK. The animation program was a simple DBC thing I wrote that rotated a limb (a turret, in this case), saved keyframe data, rotated again, save keyframe, etc., and saved the data to disk.

Then I studied a few ANIMATED .X files to determine where the animation keyframe data was stored, located the same spot in my original non-animated tank, pasted the data (did I mention Notepad?), and... it worked. The tanks load up fine in Pro, I can play my animations using the same keyframe numbers I assigned in DBC, etc. etc. etc.

Notepad -- the ultimate web page design tool, now useful for 3D animations as well! Get your copy today!

Seriously though, that's about as re-usable as a file format gets, in my book. I agree with Raven, it absolutely sucks to high heaven that the commands were removed when Pro was released, but I've got to lay blame with TGC, not the file format, for that snafu.

Don't forget that it's the best DB scripting IDE available right now.

It's possible to re-use animations such as a walk cycle made in Milkshape. If you animate one model, then delete all except the bones, save that. Then it can be used to import other models and assign limbs etc to the animated bones, much like Character Shop.

gbuilder.

Hi,

Thanks for the comments all. Looks like I'll re-install DBC, and also have a go in Milkshape.

I'm trying to get to a stage where I can tweak an animation then apply it to different models easily.

No one mentioned MD2, is that not a possibility? I don't know about that format, but I figured quake models would generally be a set of pre-defined animations, applied to different models.

Also I'm quite interested in math solutions to animation, for example, doing a walk cycle using limb rotations and the sin/cos comments etc. if anyone has experimented with that!

Cheers.

I think I've seen it touched on when googling (ok, altavista-ing) for ideas on making a human run/walk. Unfortunately the search results were mostly things like peoples' masters thesis in human physiology and such and I didn't have the stamina (or background!) to wade through it and understand it.

But I came away with the impression that math wasn't considered the best approach because it was so... well... mathematical, and you'd end up with something that looked more like a robot that a human. I s'pose that there are enough variations in skeletal structure, the ways muscles are attached, etc., that the best you could do was use math to define limits on rotations but that was about it.

If the Discovery Channel is to be believed, all the movie and animation people buy into that theory as well and are using motion capture of humans in the dark outfits with shiny patches attached at key points.

Which brings to mind Tomb Raider-like images of Angelina Jolie in a tight black body stocking and...

... oh, sorry.

MD2 uses offset vertex, frame-based animation.
It's a very very simplistic format, I made an importer for DB Enhanced back in the day for it. It isn't very reuseable animation friendly.

GLM on the other hand (RavenSoft's version of MD3 with Skeleton Animation) does have a very good reuseable animation system, it's implimented VERY badly though.

Best reusable animation format around is Half-Life MDL, also Unreal Tournament 2K3/4 also are extremely good reuseable formats



I've never done it purely though math, you might want to search the internet for IK Solutions; however I am currently using Newton Game Dynamics to create an IK Solution for my keyframe animations.

Essentially the idea is to take some raw keyframes of the most perfect movement, then add real-world physics to react with them. Instantly you have a very good animation reacting with the environment. It works quite well because the keyframes are more 'templates' and I then let the world decide based on certain tags the movement range, then let the physics give it realism.

The result is, I made a single animation for opening a door; which I've then given to the engine to react and use it as the base adding the final position of the handle. Through this means my character will move according to her IK Solution to open anything in-front of her. So you notice her tip toe to open a cabinate just out of reach, I never animated that, the engine simply did it as part of the solution. It also helped to add some realism in the way the tag ment she *always* opens a door from the handle, no matter where I position it.
When combined with the individual skeletal animation, meaning I can have the legs doing one thing and the arms doing another. Suddenly this provides the model from just 2 animations and extreme range of motion.

IK is a very useful thing to look up online, infact if you search the Off-Topic area, you'll find someone posted an IK Flash demo a month ago. It was extremely impressive, with links to documentation on how to impliment too.

Thanks, some good info.. @Raven, your system sounds good, & I like the Newton stuff - putting it to work in the way you described should have a nice effect and be very workable from a development point of view once its in place.

I'm well into templates and all things 'reuseable' these days

Saves so much hassle.

Cheers,