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Work in Progress / a new DBPro Editor made in DBPro

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 06:30
Its an idea I have had running about in my head for a few days. I'm wondering what people think of it.

This would be the rough layout, obviously a LOT more features, etc.. But this was the idea I had in my head.


When I say thats basic - I mean it! Lol..

I thought it would be nice to code in a 3D environment. It would make it easier to arrange documents..

I am interested to heard what people think about this idea.

MikeS
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:04
Very nice. I like the layout for it's very stylish.
You could probebly add it so users can have custom skins as well.

1 bug found - Planes don't reposition to their original area.

As far as coding in 3D, it sounds interesting. Perhaps you could even have real-time media viewers as well.



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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:08
Thats what I was thinking.. a 3D Model viewer would be a piece of [insert word of choice here]. I need to sort that bug out, I noticed it.. Its a point plain problem. Might have to make my own function

Cheers for the kind words though!

FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:40 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2004 07:40
I don't think it would be a good idea to make a DBPro editor in DBPro. You see, games and programs made in DBPro always use 100% of the CPU. There's no way to set it to use less CPU Usage either. All editors should run at 0% CPU Usage. Otherwise it's a waste of power.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 07:48
DB Games only use 100% of the CPU if you MAKE them do that.

I did consider this point that when you hit run, it will end up sharing the CPU between the editor and the program being developed.
The workaround I have in my head is to put it in a "wait" state.. Either make it wait for a key, or make it wait for a certain condition (like window has been maximised) and only check once a second...

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 08:17
Update:
Done a LITTLE work.. Slightly improved.. But the text creation on the plains is VERY slow. Gonna have to think of a more efficient method for that.

Anyway, its attached.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 08:19 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2004 08:20
And a screeny.. Wonder how long it takes before someone moans at me for not using the edit button



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JerBil
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 09:10
You need a way to identify the document you want to look at.

-JerBil
Cian Rice
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 09:13
Also you'll need the coloring to make editing easier, like green for REMS and blue for commands and whatnot.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 10:12 Edited at: 23rd Nov 2004 10:12
Yeah thats all gonna come at a later point. This stuff was knocked up in less than an hour.

@Jerbil: I know what you mean, I was thinking something like a mouse over text tip box thing over the dicuments.

@Anime Blood: That should be easy to do with changing the ink colour..

My Biggest concern right now is getting the text ONTO a plain. My current method is to change the bitmap, use the "text" function and them grab the bitmap and use that. Suffuce to say its a little slow

I might look into Memblocks, etc.. But I image they'll be just as slow

Kohaku
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 17:50
A touch of Blue would be good.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2004 23:36
I think i might have to call a stop to this work.. I cant think for the life of me how to make an efficient text updater. Even using a Memblock at 512x512 res would be to slow. Any smaller res and the text is too blocky. 1024x1024 is ironically too high!

Mx5 kris
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 00:38
looks good....yes a editor in 3d.....that would be "ok". Still it would present many problems.:/

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 24th Nov 2004 00:44
I think it would be an excelent idea. I mean, when you're editing in windows, most peope have hundreds of Mhz of power in the form of a graphics card just sitting there mostly idle.

The current issues that are boiling around my head are:
(1) Formatting the text in realtime.. This is doable, but my current idea of parsing the text every time the user edits would be tremendously slow

(2) Actually displaying and editing the text. My current method set the bitmap to a non-0 one, made some text, grabbed as an image, textured a plain. This works fine, and I think looks quite nice too.. BUT.. Its REALLY slow.

Any ideas? I'd like to do it but I have a bad feeling these are not passable problems (hence there not being a decent 3D editor made before )

JerBil
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 00:37
What I'm thinking is to enter text on a single line, and when enter is pressed, parse the line and add it to the 3d object display.
Of course, then you must keep a reference to each line and each object page.


-JerBil
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 01:27
the generation of a "page" is not TOO bad.. well it is.. But thats an idea to bear in mind! Might make editing a bitch though..

1tg46
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 21:37 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 21:38
Quote: "I don't think it would be a good idea to make a DBPro editor in DBPro. You see, games and programs made in DBPro always use 100% of the CPU. There's no way to set it to use less CPU Usage either. All editors should run at 0% CPU Usage. Otherwise it's a waste of power."


Not only do they use 100% of the CPU, but they use lots of memory too. My DarkBASIC Network(the dbp version) ran with 60,500kilobytes of memory used in the background which is more than WIndows Media Player, or any other application.

FYI The .NET versions of the DarkBASIC Network don't hit the memory as much.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 21:53
Ahh I thought if you made the code efficient (like only updating the screen when something changed) then it would only use the CPU it needed.. That silly that it doesn't!

Also, Memory wise isn't so much a problem now-a-days.. Most people have enough memory to cope with a 60Mb App sitting there.

Or do they? I mean, my first PC I bought 4-5 years ago came with 512Mb RAM (I say came, I built it with that)..

My new one I bought a year ago has 1Gb. I know plenty of people who have 1.5Gb and more..

I really think that in modern day PC's and with the price of RAM so relatively cheap there isn't much excuse for still using 128 or 256. 256 really is the bare minimum if you actually want to USE the PC. nd when I say use, I would never have more than Word and 1 IE window open when using 256Mb RAM (My girlfriend still has it and I'm gonna upgraded it for her asap, the only reason she still has it is because I haven't had the chance to do it for her yet).

Thats just my opinion.. Am I being arrogant assuming people should have 256Mb mimumum, 512Mb ideally and 1Gb if they can?

Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 23:12
I have 256MB of ram and I can have loads of programs open at the same time, doesnt seem to affect the speed.

Quote: "I would never have more than Word and 1 IE window open when using 256Mb RAM "

Uh..why? Thats totally stupid. Even on our old pc with 64MB of ram I used to be able to open like, 10 IE windows and not notice a speed difference. Just opening word and one IE window is a waste of 256MB..

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 00:08 Edited at: 26th Nov 2004 00:09
Maybe under Win98 you could do that.. I found in WinXP that if you have 256 Mb RAM and you start opening that many apps (10 IE windows, etc) then you REALLY get a speed decrease.. But then again everyone measures speed increase differently.. I'm a bit of a power-hungry geek and if my PC lags by a fraction of a second I want to know why! lol.

Obvsiously the age of Windows install and the number of loaded tools in the tool tray (like drivers, etc) all makes windows slower.. Especially now drivers are getting stupidly big. I mean the ATI ones are now over 25Mb.. Gone are the days when people could engineer a driver in <100Kb Hehe..

Also, I agree a computer with 64Mb RAM COULD open 10IE's.. But bear in mind a CLEAN install of WinXP with no 3rd party drivers, anti virus and even the default Theme removed tends to use 70MB RAM for JUST WINDOWS ALONE. So as soon as you open ANYTHING, you have to start shoving stuff into the swap file which is when slow downs happen.

Maybe I should have been clearer.. I would never have more than Word and an IE open as I dont like windows having to use the swap file. After opening them + windows + driver + anti virus + firewall + all that other crap that people like to use () then 256Mb goes VERY quickly.. Its not long after that 512Mb tends to get used up.

Also,when I say IE and Word.. I mean you have been working for a while.. Its not an empty Word doc, it has a few thousand words, etc..

So to sum up, I agree Windows WILL RUN under 64Mb RAM.. but it wont "run" if you get what I mean, it'll more crawl like is had concrete on its back

Benjamin
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 03:27 Edited at: 26th Nov 2004 03:30
I think you should get real .

So your saying if you notice the slightest slow down for some reason you panic and get more ram? Well, I do have a firewall too, and I have other programs that run on startup, I'm just not bothered by tiny slowdowns every now and then.

Quote: "Also,when I say IE and Word.. I mean you have been working for a while.. Its not an empty Word doc, it has a few thousand words, etc.."

Well windows does have a memory leak if you remember. As long as you restart every 5 hours or so its normally fine. Having said that, if I run a lot of dbpro games at the same time, I need to restart afterwards because they use a lot of RAM.

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BealziBob
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 04:39
@ Nicholas

There is a way to get your dbpro program to use minimal CPU. Simply use the sync off command at the start of your program. This does mean you lose control of the timing, but you can get several dbpro programs running at once if they are all programmed with sync off.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 04:44
Hehe.. Not the SLIGHTEST slow down! Lol.. Maybe I was exaggerating. But I dont know if its cos I'm impatient or something.. But After spending a lot of money on a PC I want it to do what I WANT it do NOW. I dont want to double click something then have to sit there and watch it swap pages out of mememory and hard disk pagefiles.

Also, More memory makes windows more stable. Think about it.. Things only ever go wrong when something happens (99.999% of the time). Now if you have to make windows swap chunks of code and stuff in and out of RAM all the time, its only a matter of time before something gets lost of corrupt in the process.

I am powerhungry. I dont like PC's that lag due to page swapping. You might be different along with a lot of other people.. Some people dont care. Some people do. I'm one of the "carer's"

As for your 5 hours, I agree a restart does wonders.. Sayign that, I've now been up and running for approx 11 days straight (in about 20 mins anyway ). Only in the last hour has signs of "lag" been showing. I'm currently using 529Mb of my 1024.. I have Firefox, some explorers and Azureus (Bit Torrent Client) open. Azureus has recently become memory heavy as I have queued up a few versions of linux I want to try on it (2-3 DVD's worth).

Anywho - I have decided that as novel as this idea was.. it currently is a little impracticle due to a number of factors, my knowledge being the biggest.. I cant think about how to get around realtime text editing on a plain.

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