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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] For those of you who still insist on using Internet Explorer...

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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 02:48 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 02:49
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... check out this article I discovered today on Slashdot.

It describes how the author, a spyware tracker, had 16 distinct programs installed by simply visiting one website with security-holed IE. None of the programs asked for authorization, and some of them were even installed in folders other than Crogram Files

At the end, he stated that XP SP2 was not vulnerable, but we should know by now that it's only a matter of time before the "bad guys" catch up.

The article also has a brief part about the money that is made from the spyware companies off of user's grief.

http://www.benedelman.org/news/111804-1.html


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:34
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Thats why everyone should upgrade to SP2...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:40
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Never! I have the update file, but until I have a spare hard-drive (ie second PC with space) to back-up on there is no chance of me doing an update.

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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:48
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Yeah, and have their PCs screwed up totally by it . I know three people myself whose machines were violated by SP2... all with legit XP copies. Firefox, needless to say, doesn't do that

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:50
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Have they tried a new install and then SP2 ?

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 06:56
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Its funny.. I have heard SO many people moan about SP2.. I have had absolutely NO problems with it. In fact, windows is better for it! Wireless Networking is MUCH easier and more stable now.. Everything else is just bettererererererer!

But still.. WHY IE?! I'm on a campaign to rid the world of IE.. Even if its sneakily installing it on peoples PC so its taken over for when they wake up

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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:01
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Quote: " Even if its sneakily installing it on peoples PC "

I leave "Get Firefox" notes all over the moniters


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Dave J
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:01
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I've also installed SP2 without a problem, and yes, I use IE. Why? Because it feels more comfortable than Firefox, security issues are of no concern to me because I don't scour the net looking at porn and crack sites. Unless Rich has suddenly turned evil (not that he wasn't, already) and decided to exploit IE through this site, then it's unlikely that I'll be touched anyway.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:03
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Its not just crack and porn site.. Quite a lot of legitimate sites have popups too and as I understand it, thats the source of the problem.. Tho SP2 does include a fairly good blocker..

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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:04 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 07:05
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Quote: "decided to exploit IE through this site"

but he has......

EDIT:
Quote: "Tho SP2 does include a fairly good blocker.."

Does it block Microsoft (MSN and Hotmail etc) ads?


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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:25
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Quote: "Because it feels more comfortable than Firefox"


It isn't always easy to switch, but really, Firefox gets far more comfy after a while. The speed and tabbed browsing make it so much more friendly

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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:34
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The one actual disadvantage to FF that I don't argue with is that as IE is built into Windows, it hogs my memory (see sig ) which I want for FF (starts faster too etc).


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Dave J
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:34 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 07:35
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Quote: "It isn't always easy to switch, but really, Firefox gets far more comfy after a while. The speed and tabbed browsing make it so much more friendly"


I've tried 3 times . Not for a quick test of it either, I've completely changed my browsing habits to use Firefox instead for weeks at a time, but to put it simply, it's just not my cup of tea.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:38
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Quote: " Thats why everyone should upgrade to SP2..."


Did you read what I wrote!?!

Quote: "At the end, he stated that XP SP2 was not vulnerable, but we should know by now that it's only a matter of time before the "bad guys" catch up."


SP1 was supposed to end this crap, too.


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Avan Madisen
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:38
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Ok, stupid question:

The biggest problem Windows XP had before SP2 was the built in firewall (and other security software) were off by default and SP2 was intended to update these and switch them all on. Doesn't this mean that with a decent firewall and antivirus software these security riskes are not a problem?

Am I right, or am I talking bull excrement?

I don't suffer from insanity:

I enjoy every minute of it!
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Neofish
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:42
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Technically you are right, but an experienced hacker should be able to bypass these quite easily (if he/she is determined enough).

(On a slightly similar topic, I have no idea what the password to my router is (I own it in all respects) so I tried default passwords etc but it won't let me access it. This annoyed me so I took (after checking the manuals etc for the default (and my dad doesn't know what it is)) a password cracker thingy and tried to break into it (as I am "testing my own security" anyone who takes this as illegal is a fool) and till this day I still don't know my own password...)


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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 07:55
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I found the switch from IE to firefox easy O.o

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HZence
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:14
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For those of you who still insist on switching to Firefox...

If you had it your way, no one would use I.E. But then, what would happen? Spyware authors would start abusing Firefox. In turn, the truly safe people will be those who consistently use the aforementioned browser.

I'll keep my I.E., thank you. Stay away from p0rn sites and ones you don't trust, and you should be fine anyway.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:25
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That will reduce your risk but still it'll be there..

My grandad used his PC for VERY little as he was a true noob (could barely use the mouse) yet he managed to get viruses and popup instals and everything.. I was constantly fixing it! (and before you say it, he was not a porn addict).

AS I understand it, Firefox does not have the same security holes as IE and probably has far fewer.. I dont know if you've noticed a pattern with MS products, but they are VERY bug ridden.

On a slightly lighter note - why has this thread been labelled Flamebait?

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:32
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Quote: "Spyware authors would start abusing Firefox."

Yeah, I'm suprised nobody has done this yet. But since FireFox is open-source (which IE is not ), someone could discover the holes ahead of time and report them directly to the developers (or, if they're really geeky, fix it themselves). With IE, which is closed-source, the developers alone have to find holes in the software, which could take days -or weeks, months, whatever- to fix.

Quote: "I'll keep my I.E., thank you."

That's like saying "I'll stay on the Titanic, thank you, because I think the life boat might have a hole in it."

Quote: "Stay away from p0rn sites and ones you don't trust, and you should be fine anyway.
"

Agreed, but that advice applies no matter which browser you use.

Not trying to flame you, I'm just telling you your argument doesn't hold up.

Quote: "A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, not 1028.
I mean.... not.. that i.... new that already.... i figured... maybe... CRUD! IM A NERD! -Ion Stream"

I feel your pain, man. Wait...pain?!
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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:36
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Quote: "If you had it your way, no one would use I.E. But then, what would happen? Spyware authors would start abusing Firefox. In turn, the truly safe people will be those who consistently use the aforementioned browser."


Firefox is more secure than IE both because it's less used and because it's far better designed. The security system is far more modern.

And that's not even half the features. It's faster, supports tabbed browsing, native RSS feed, better password memory system, built-in search window, skinnable, and has a far default GUI anyways.

Oh yeah, and it's less of a memory hog.

And finally, the whole 'browse smart and you're fine' thing is bull-- a good example of this is that recently a small web site and forum I visit was hacked in to and infected with a nasty trojan that installed a ton of spyware through IE. If I'd been using it, that would have been rather annoying .

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Jess T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 08:57
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Also,
People are forgetting that IE will no longer ( after SP2 that is ) be updated AT ALL untill Project LongHorn comes out. Sure, there may be an occasional bug fix, or security patch, but the flaws and the slowness, and the crappy GUI, and the overall stupidness of the browser wont be changed untill Longhorn.
So, that's where alot of the security risks are coming from. As the hackers find new ways around IE, they'll just exploit it to hell and back, while M$ sit on their arses and do nothing.

FireFox browsing is a WHOLE LOT better than IE browsing IMHO.
It blocks pop-ups better than IE ( I remember not long ago, I went to a site that was IE only via FireFox, but there was a pop-up that FF blocked, but alas, through IE [with SP2 on] the pop-up wasn't blocked, and the site was crap anyway... ).

Also, another feature of FF over IE is the way it handles cookies, cache and your internet history better. Easier to clean away when there's too much, and you have alot more control over what gets cached and what doesn't

Jess.


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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 09:13
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Alright, let me say this slowely and clearly for those who use Mozilla-Based browsers.

MOZILLA IN MICROSOFT WINDOWS, UTILISES WINDOWS LIBRARIES FOR CONNECTION, AND INTERFACE MEANS.

What exactly does that sentance above mean? Quite simply put, almost every security flaw in Internet Explorer will also be found in Mozilla.
The only way to have more secure version of Mozilla running, is to run it under Linux, or another GNU Operating System. Irony of that being is that actually under Linux Mozilla, and FireFox are about as stable as a kid who's just downed an entire chocolate cake and decided to take the seat next to you on the tilt-o-whirl.

While it's true that a number of web-accessing operations are more secure, it doesn't stop the given fact that Mozilla still heavily relies on Microsoft Windows libraries, on that platform.

Seriously, you FireFox people are worse than bloody Jehova's Witnesses! 'Use our browser it's the one true browser, even though it does 90% of what yours does!'

Face facts, Mozilla is never going to be as secure as you'd like to believe it is unless you don't use it on Windows. Even then the security of it is a case of 'you don't find what you don't look for'. Further more not everyone has to like something just because you do!

Quite frankly I use the Internet through Visual Studio 2005, as it has an awesome built-in browser. Designed for the Help really, but it offers every security precaution available to Explorer; (which under Service Pack 2 is quite secure), but it also has the extended scripting engine for your Team-Based security, not to mention the fact that the .Net Web Control has a much smaller footprint, cleans the memory up after itself, Actively Scans and Blocks Ports.
Security in it is effectively at the machine code level, if it believes something is a threat then it'll script new rules for itself.

It also uses a tabbed interface, but your not bound to using just that. You can have MDI or Group Strips. The only draw-back is it isn't design for adverage user as a dedicated browser so doesn't have History, Media Player Side Panel, Outlook Side Panel, Search Panel, etc.. It does however show quite nicely what is planned for the next Explorer.


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indi
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 09:23
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I have tea timer installed and so I can see when things are being inserted and just say no. Even MSN trys to install avenue.inc spyware.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself
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Eric T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 09:30
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I just use both Firefox and IE, depends on what i'm doing. If i'm testing something webbased that I made, IE it is. I usually surf my "Normal Sites" with IE. If i'm surfing the net outside of my normal sites, I use Firefox as it picks up a bit less spyware.

That said, I use Safari if i'm on a Mac.

Really depends on what i'm doing.

Bleh, I've just given up on trying to think up signatures.
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TKF15H
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 09:31 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 09:36
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Quote: "What exactly does that sentance above mean? Quite simply put, almost every security flaw in Internet Explorer will also be found in Mozilla."

ROFL,ROFL, AND MORE ROFL!

Ok, seriously: Yes, mozilla does use windoze's libraries, BUT there's a whole different engine running there. There are MANY flaws in IE that Mozilla doesn't have now or ever. An example of this, was that using a hex 0 would hide the rest of the address in the navigation bar. IE's fault, Mozilla has no problem with this. How mozilla gets the information and processes it is up to mozilla, NOT some library. If it were so, they'd have to rewrite those same libraries again for Linux.
That's why some people have felt that Mozilla is faster than IE. The whole memory-management + HTML-Parsing/Rendering + network code is completly different. It's in these things that a flaw will appear.

[edit]
And another thing:
IE's cache is HORRID! Pressing the BACK button will make the browser contact the site and re-download part of it. In Mozilla, it will simply reload the page from cache, and if I want it to refresh, I just press F5. 90% of the time I don't want it to reload the page again, so IE is just slowing stuff down needlessly.

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Jeku
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 09:51
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Quote: "Quite simply put, almost every security flaw in Internet Explorer will also be found in Mozilla."


So explain to me why I can pick up 16 different distinct spyware programs by simply visiting a single site using IE, but not pick up a single one in the entire time I've been using FF (over a year)?

Your point is bunk.


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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:02
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Pulling it out of his... hat... as usual .

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heartbone
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:12
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I use IE 5.5, Mozilla Firebird 0.7 and Netscape Navigator 4.7.

IE 5.5 is buggy as hell and crashes multiple times in most extended sessions. It also locks up a lot. But most of the exploits target IE6 and so far I've not caught anything. Sometmes it helps to stay a generation or two behind the bleeding edge.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:12
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I've noticed an amount of addware I've had on my pc because of IE. After I reinstalled windows I just installed firefox and haven't used IE since, and I haven't seem to have regained that annoying addware.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:38
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Quote: "So explain to me why I can pick up 16 different distinct spyware programs by simply visiting a single site using IE, but not pick up a single one in the entire time I've been using FF (over a year)?"


I've not had a single peice of spyware in 5years, with the minor exception of when I'd just reinstalled my system and had foolishy let my brother on my system.

why? because I have the common sense to setup the ActiveX / Cookie controls, and also not press anything on pop-ups.
The past 2years i've been using Toolbars with built-in pop-up blockers, Alta-Vista and now MSN Toolbar.

I've not had a single Spyware attack since using them.
I have Norton Anti-Virus & Internet Security running constantly, not to mention Spysweeper. While I have the protection, I've never needed to use.. it is purely a precaution.

Sorry but, just because Explorer doesn't come setup out-of-the-box for the current attack styles; doesn't mean it doesn't have the ability to block things just as well as Mozilla.

Quote: "Ok, seriously: Yes, mozilla does use window's libraries, BUT there's a whole different engine running there."


A Security Flaw is a Security Flaw... Simple fact of the matter if you people aparently are *only* talking about spyware. I.E. JavaScript/ActiveX/Cookie distributed code designed to take unwilling information from your computer.

The only reason Mozilla is more protected is because people just aren't designing them to take advantage of it.
Possibly for the same reason most Spyware is designed for Explorer 6.x rather than 5.x .. simple fact of the matter is they go after whatever browser is more popular.

So fine, shift the world onto Mozilla. We'll see how long it's 'protection' really lasts.


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Benjamin
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:46
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Just some site I was linked to from spybot:

http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/ie.shtml

http://www.greymagic.com/security/advisories/moz.shtml

Strange how IE has more vulnerabilities isnt it

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 10:52
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Under IE, I've gotten 50+ spyware just going to perfectly legitimate sites (eBay, TGC, GameFAQs, etc.) in only a few weeks. Under Firefox, going to the same sites (plus a few others, also legit), I've gotten 1 in a few months. Tell me there's no security flaw in IE. If it really is ActiveX, as Raven says, then I say *bleep* ActiveX, it's being abused too much.

Quote: "A kilobyte is 1024 bytes, not 1028.
I mean.... not.. that i.... new that already.... i figured... maybe... CRUD! IM A NERD! -Ion Stream"

I feel your pain, man. Wait...pain?!
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kenmo
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 11:00
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Well I have been skimming this topic, and:

"Seriously, you FireFox people are worse than bloody Jehova's Witnesses! 'Use our browser it's the one true browser, even though it does 90% of what yours does!'"

I am a "FireFox person" and while I agree that there are certainly FF fanboys (and for just about everything else) I think that good old sweeping generalizations shouldnt be used here. There are undeniably many FF users that have never told other people to switch. I in fact have suggested that my dad and a few friends switch, but that hardly makes me a "Jehova's Witness" in my mind...

Oh and:

"why? because I have the common sense to setup the ActiveX / Cookie controls, and also not press anything on pop-ups.
The past 2years i've been using Toolbars with built-in pop-up blockers, Alta-Vista and now MSN Toolbar."

Um, exactly. FF has the "common sense" to already have its controls set up, and has pop-up blocking already included without the need of installing separate plugins.

Merry Christmas! (since like, I dunno, winter 2003 at least)
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 11:23
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Quote: "Um, exactly. FF has the "common sense" to already have its controls set up, and has pop-up blocking already included without the need of installing separate plugins"


Explorer 6 was released prior to the boom in spyware.. Remember it is close to 6years old now, the Security Updates and Service Packs actually give you alot of protection, and set everything up securely for you. If you happen to turn off Auto-Update then really you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you want to know why there is no Explorer 7 yet, look to the United State Courts; who have told Microsoft in the name of 'fair competition' they are not to package any new Browsers with Windows.
Unfortunately this means the end user suffers, considering Explorer is not exactly on the bleeding edge of technology anyway; I feel it is a pretty stupid ruling.

Quote: "There are undeniably many FF users that have never told other people to switch. I in fact have suggested that my dad and a few friends switch, but that hardly makes me a "Jehova's Witness" in my mind..."


Sorry, but I use both IE and FireFox. I've never felt the need to tell anyone they need the lastest Explorer or the lastest FireFox is well worth the update.

The browsers are out there, people can either choose to use them or not.. I don't give a damn what you use, just don't try and become all preachy to me about which is 'Better'; because quite frankly from where I'm sitting they're both insecure, unstable, slow, and useless applications.
(this can be backed up by anyone who's ever used iBrowse/Safari)

At the end of the day, Spyware & Adware is everywhere.. It doesn't just come through your browser directly to you, but it's attached in emails, in downloads, it comes in all forms, shapes and sizes.

I don't see anyone preaching here about changing from Outlook to Thunderbird as thier email client.. oh wait, I have seen people saying 'change to gmail'; but that said i've had a number of worm, and spyware emails originating from gmail accounts recently.


Quote: "Strange how IE has more vulnerabilities isnt it."


Operative word on that website is 'known' exploits. The only one remaining on that list for IE was fixxed with SP2.


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The Big Babou
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 11:42
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Sometime ago, kind of "games-news-site" posted, that there was some new game demo and one can download it from their server. As everyone was downloading from them, it was very slow. so I searched their forum and found a guy who had posted a link to a mirror. I clicked on it and found myself on some crack site, my antivirus software went mad saying found this virus, found that malware and after I thought I had cleaned everything out again, there was still some pron search bar, which had installed itself.
By that time Firefox 1.0 PR was new, so I decided to give it a try. I went to the cracksite again and see: my antivirus prog remained quiet and Firefox said something like "Firefox prevented this site from installing software on your system." Even not that damn pron searchbar had a chance. Since this my only browser is Firefox.

The extensions are really nice (adblock even proves usefull here, against users with ugly or too big images in their sig) and some themes look really good.
But the best thing is the tabbed browsing: I go through the threads here, choose which I want to read and open them in new tabs. So I can go through all tabs and read what i want, without having to go back and look where was this other interesting thread and read it and back again and search again. Very comfortable.

I don't think, I'm a Firefox fanboy nor do I say everyone has to use it, but I can only give the advice to use it.

... they call it a royale with cheese ...
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Mx5 kris
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 13:30
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I use loopy 0.1!!!! I made it in seconds. Blue gui and db rock....since you all are listening, make your own browser.

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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 13:53
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Quote: "
If you want to know why there is no Explorer 7 yet, look to the United State Courts; who have told Microsoft in the name of 'fair competition' they are not to package any new Browsers with Windows."


That's bull. The next version of Windows will have a new IE anyways and absolutely nothing is stopping them from updating it from its current sad state. It remains vulnerable, low tech and clunky with all the upgrades.

Quote: "because quite frankly from where I'm sitting they're both insecure, unstable, slow, and useless applications. "


Oooh, Raven has spoken. Since you feel you have the right to casually dismiss every browser out there as crap, would you mind pointing out the superior work you've done? Or wait... did you lose it in a hard drive crash?

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Lost in Thought
20
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Location: U.S.A. : Douglas, Georgia
Posted: 25th Nov 2004 14:02 Edited at: 25th Nov 2004 14:03
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Quote: "But most of the exploits target IE6 and so far I've not caught anything. Sometmes it helps to stay a generation or two behind the bleeding edge."


This is exactly the point. There are not enough people using FF to target it to find flaws. Sure they will not be the same flaws as IE but there will be bugs, though they may not have been found yet. Why bother trying to find exploits in a browser that will not affect the majority of the internet users? Flaws in one brower will probably not work in a different browser as they are programmed different. IE is the logical choice to find flaws in.

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Shadow Robert
22
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 25th Nov 2004 14:14
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Quote: "That's bull. The next version of Windows will have a new IE anyways and absolutely nothing is stopping them from updating it from its current sad state. It remains vulnerable, low tech and clunky with all the upgrades."


Longhorn will be shiped with Explorer 6.2 SP1, Microsoft are not legally allowed to ship explorer. Without it being allowed to be part of the OS Microsoft turned thier attention to the Media Center Browser. (an update of MSN Explorer)

Quote: "Oooh, Raven has spoken. Since you feel you have the right to casually dismiss every browser out there as crap, would you mind pointing out the superior work you've done? Or wait... did you lose it in a hard drive crash?"


It's a fact of programming Mouse. People aren't perfect, the larger the team and the larger the group working on something the more problem seep in, particularly utilising bugged technology to start with.

I reckon most of the software out there is crap, doesn't mean I have to go off and make my own to prove it. That is such a damn childish attitude to take as well.
Simple fact of the matter, I'm not the one making hundreds of posts over the last few weeks trying to claim the browser I USE is the best one around...

Quite frankly mud-slinging is the only way that Linux & Derivitive projects ever seem to get noticed. If FireFox was REALLY that wonderful, why the hell is everyone trying to push it all the damn time? Surely it would be good enough to become popular on it's own merits?

Put simply, I don't care much for IE, I don't care much for Mozilla. But I'm not the one here bitching about it. They're tools, and I prefer to use one which I feel does the job best for me.

What I don't like seeing is these constant put downs on Microsoft Technology all the time. If you don't like it, either put up with it, do something about it, or f**k off to Linux and shut up!

There is no need for posts every damn day about how 'such'n'such' is better than the other brands. If I was so damn hyped up about always using the best possible software as you people seem to be, I wouldn't even be in this forum.. I mean sorry to break it to you but DarkBASIC Professional IS THE most bug ridden BASIC language on the market currently.

It has security flaws all over the shop, it hogs the memory, it's bloatware extreme, the engine isn't exactly fast (but faster than the original)... Just out of interest as your ALL so upety about this stuff WHY THE HELL ARE YOU USING IT AND ARE HERE?

C'mon seriously, this is getting beyond a joke. These arguments are all so bloody hypocritial it isn't even funny.


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Ian T
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 14:22
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Quote: "If FireFox was REALLY that wonderful, why the hell is everyone trying to push it all the damn time?"


After reading solid nonsense from you throughout this entire post, it's refreshing to read something that makes sense.




Oh-- wait...

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--Bill Clinton
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HZence
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 15:39
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It's really annoying when people go through, quote everything you say, and comment on it with a "witty" reply...

Quote: "That's like saying "I'll stay on the Titanic, thank you, because I think the life boat might have a hole in it.""


No, it's not like saying that at all. That's just what's bound to happen. I don't see the point in switching, so I won't.


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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HZence
21
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 15:41
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Quote: "And finally, the whole 'browse smart and you're fine' thing is bull"


No, it isn't. The only time I've ever gotten spyware/viruses is when I've vistited "unsecure" sites.


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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HZence
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Posted: 25th Nov 2004 15:43
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Quote: "Oooh, Raven has spoken"


Hate to play mommy, but that's not very nice. Why is it every time Raven says something you're down his throat Mouse?


Ausukusa :: Programmer/Storyboard Assistant
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David T
Retired Moderator
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: England
Posted: 25th Nov 2004 15:46
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Quote: "security-holed IE"


Yes, but if you install updates IE won't be secrity holed and you're fine.

I am onfident that Firefox has just as many holes, it's just that the user base is so small they're found slower.

Get 15 new commands, all the date / time commands left out of DBPro for free!
DOWNLOAD PLUGINS HERE: http://www.davidtattersall.me.uk/ and select "DarkBasic"
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OSX Using Happy Dude
21
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Location: At home
Posted: 25th Nov 2004 16:31
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Quote: "could discover the holes ahead of time"

I surprised no-one has taken the code and added dodgy stuff yet... Hmmmm...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
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Dave J
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Location: Secret Military Pub, Down Under
Posted: 25th Nov 2004 16:31
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We've been through this all before... a couple days ago, in fact. Essentially this is just another Product Vs Product thread, just like Blitz Vs DBP threads are locked, this one will be too.

Finally, I'd like to point out that there's no use arguing, if someone's made up their mind about what browser to use, nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. Unfortunately, the good discussion in these threads dissipated long ago, and all we're left with is an aggressive debate which isn't leading anywhere.




"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
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