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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] JFK reloaded. Is this sick or what?

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Dave J
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 16:31
It's not even 5 minutes, my 30 second estimate was no exaggeration. That's literally how long it takes for the game to run through, from start to finish. And there's no way I'd pay $1 every 3 seconds just to watch a 3D scene unfold.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 26th Nov 2004 20:50
I wasn't around when JFK was assasinated but, there is usually a reason why someone is assasinated. One man's hero is another's enemy. That is life. We will not know what happened there. I say if people can make money off movies about it then why not a game? It is afterall just a game. People tend to forget that. There was an old quake team fortress game/map called hunted. You had assasins, secret service, and a president. There was no such discussion about that game. Sure it did not label the president with any name but the same events were there all in all. With all thats going on in the world, it is sad that people argue over a game, with little discussion about real life. Just my opinion.

Nemo
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 00:00
Hi there.
I was just reading through the forum because I was bored in work and after reading this thread I feel I must have my say, largely because most of the people objecting to the game are Americans.

The Titanic was built in Belfast (The capitol city of my country, Northern Ireland). When news of the film got round many of the relatives of people who died on the Titanic protested on the grounds that it was extraordinarily insensitive.

This is interesting because a number of films about the Titanic had been made over the years and know one was upset about them. The reason for this contrast is that the previous films dealt with the incident with the appropriate level of respect while Cameron's took a terrible disaster and crow bared in a pathetically formulaic love story. This trivialised the catastrophic loss of life that occurred when the ship went down and showed a crass disregard for the feelings of their relatives.

My point here is that from where I am standing America has a monopoly on bad taste and quite frankly I find it insulting that you people have the nerve to complain about this sort of thing.

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Ian T
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 00:40 Edited at: 4th Dec 2004 00:41
Quote: "
My point here is that from where I am standing America has a monopoly on bad taste and quite frankly I find it insulting that you people have the nerve to complain about this sort of thing."


I'm afraid that's called bigotry. You take one director, and a handful of actors' and producers' bad taste, slap it on an entire country and then say that no Americans have a right to complain about bad taste.

That's about as legitimate and, by the way, tasteless as saying that because the IRA comes from Ireland, nobody there has a right to complain about death.

BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 13:48
We didn't get upset over any Vietnam movies though.

This is an actual person identified, as mentioned before most of the other games/films are fictional characters representing real people, there's less of a connection.

Probably the most offending part is that games are traditionally a form of fun entertainment. You have fun playing games. Would you have fun assassinating one of your nation's most repsected leaders?

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Oneka
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 14:34
Well to resolve this matter how about we make a game about killing princess Diana or some other person important to Britain (UK) w/e
then we will be on even terms.. :


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Major Payn
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 00:56
Quote: "Well to resolve this matter how about we make a game about killing princess Diana or some other person important to Britain (UK) w/e
then we will be on even terms.. : "


That is actually a very good comparison, as I think that if this same guy made a game in which you were given points to drive your car into the exact piller that Diana hit, alot of British people would be outraged! Much like that of many Americans who believe this JFK reloaded, is pure scum.

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
David T
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 01:37
Quote: "The Titanic was built in Belfast (The capitol city of my country, Northern Ireland). When news of the film got round many of the relatives of people who died on the Titanic protested on the grounds that it was extraordinarily insensitive.

This is interesting because a number of films about the Titanic had been made over the years and know one was upset about them. The reason for this contrast is that the previous films dealt with the incident with the appropriate level of respect while Cameron's took a terrible disaster and crow bared in a pathetically formulaic love story. This trivialised the catastrophic loss of life that occurred when the ship went down and showed a crass disregard for the feelings of their relatives."


Well put Nemo.

Would I buy the game? No because I see it as a bit of a waste of money. There's only one leel nad your job is to shoot one person - then that's it.

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HZence
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 05:14 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 04:16
[]


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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 05:25
Quote: "Oh, and on a side note, I bet you if an American had developed this game, there would be little to no controversey."


I don't know about that. Around here people bitch at everybody.


Why would you say Americans have bad taste?
You say you live in the US, are you saying that you have bad taste?

I believe the term, "bad taste," should be changed to, "disagreement in cultural appreciation".

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HZence
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 05:54 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 04:17
[..]


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Major Payn
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 10:18
Cool my thread has little red exclamation marks now! I feel special .

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 10:20


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Dylnuge
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 11:46
This is a sick game because its not even proven history, as the "magic bullet" probabbly did exits but might not have. You brits don't understand (no offence), so think of this. One of the best Prime Minister's of Britten gets killed (that did not happen, im saying in example, imagine whoever you like the best). Microsoft releases a game challenging to kill him as the murderer did. What would you think. Besides, it is expensive for a game that asks you to fire three shots and then ends. Cheap, Pointless, Sick. Pure Simple.

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Major Payn
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 11:50
finally someone I can agree fully with.

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
Ian T
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 13:10
Quote: "Bigotry? Sheesh, what dictionary are you using?"


big·ot·ry [bígg? tree] noun
prejudice and intolerance: intolerance toward people who hold different views, especially on matters of politics, religion, or ethnicity

[Late 17th century. Formed from bigot, on the model of French bigoterie .]

Encarta® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1999 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Developed for Microsoft by Bloomsbury Publishing Plc.


Hmm. How interesting .



Quote: "Not only is that more than a little harsh, it's, well, to be blunt, not bigotry."


Classifies in every way.

Quote: "Secondly, he was giving an example, and I'm sure he, myself, and others could think of countless others if you'd like. How many will it take to convince you?"


Enough to prove that America statistically commited a significantly larger amount of acts in poor taste than any other nation. Have fun collecting them. By the way, the logical fallacies you and Nemo are putting into action here are part to whole and generalization.

Quote: "He's right. Americans do have a reputation for having bad taste..."


So let's see...

Reputation for bad taste equals bad taste equals generalized bad taste equals no right to complain about bad taste? Interesting chain of broken logic.

Quote: "it's there, you sort of just have to accept it."


I don't accept stupidity

Quote: "Oh, and on a side note, I bet you if an American had developed this game, there would be little to no controversey."


Oh, sure

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Dave J
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 13:50
Quote: "Cool my thread has little red exclamation marks now! I feel special "


It means it's offensive, it's also a warning to not turn the thread into a flamebait. Nothing to be proud of.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
Major Payn
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 02:09
Quote: "It means it's offensive, it's also a warning to not turn the thread into a flamebait. Nothing to be proud of."


AWSOME!

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
Ian T
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 03:36
Silver lining, eh

Dave J
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 05:57 Edited at: 6th Dec 2004 05:59
Quote: "AWSOME!"


I believe it's spelled 'Awesome'.


"Computers are useless - They can only give you answers."
Major Payn
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 07:25
Quote: "I believe it's spelled 'Awesome'."


meh.

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 08:30
Yeah, I don't think that this game would have very good lastability, anyway. All you do is shoot a target with a sniper. That's it. It's not like you have to dodge enemy attacks like in multiplayer frag-fests and such.

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Major Payn
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 08:59
Atleast I think all of us can agree that he guy who made this is an idiot for trying to charge people for 10 seconds of boring gameplay.

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
Manticore Night
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 13:13
Are there any links to this game, sounds fun.

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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 13:17
JFK will pwn you Manticore.

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HZence
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 13:29 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 04:17
[.]


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Manticore Night
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 13:40
Quote: "JFK will pwn you Manticore."
No, I'll be the one doing the boning...er....pwning.

It's amazing how much TV has raised us. (Bart Simpson)
JeBuS
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 14:00 Edited at: 6th Dec 2004 14:02
Quote: "Atleast I think all of us can agree that he guy who made this is an idiot for trying to charge people for 10 seconds of boring gameplay."


You're kidding right? These guys had a damn good idea for making a quick buck. They knew there would be a controversy over it. They knew that controversy would get them loads of free publicity. They knew they didn't need to spend years programming such a short program. If anything, I'm envious I didn't think of it myself.

It was a good business move, plain and simple. It takes many years of programming for most small companies to get their name out worldwide. This group did it in one fell swoop.

This is a game that simulates the assassination of a person. Big deal. I've played games where you cut limbs off people, games where you blow up motorcades, games where you hang world leaders. This is an entertainment industry. Its goal is to entertain. If a hundred thousand people get their jollies on sniping a person in a motorcade, who's been dead for half a century, for a few seconds, so be it. It doesn't harm me or anyone else to let them play.


High quality models and graphics, low prices. Graphics for the rest of us.
Ian T
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 14:02 Edited at: 6th Dec 2004 14:04
'Long day' all over this one

Quote: "How interesting indeed. Here's the original quote we're referring to:

Quote: "My point here is that from where I am standing America has a monopoly on bad taste and quite frankly I find it insulting that you people have the nerve to complain about this sort of thing"

So, you've stated the dictionary definition of bigotry. Bravo. Now, where is it? I'm sorry, you're going to have to point it out for me. I just don't see it. He states a fact, that America tends to have bad taste"


Before I spell out the logic, I'll try to rephrase it so you can see the fallacy more obviously. If you were to read this:

My point is that sexually transmitted diseases are more commonly distributed in homosexual intercourse, so quite frankly I find it insulting that gay people have the nerve to complain about the spread of AIDS

You'd take that rather differently, wouldn't you? But you know what? The logic is identical. He observes a fact and draws a fallacious, bigoted generalization from it.

Quote: "you hardcore fundies"


Making (incorrect [doesn't help]) assumptions about the people you're debating with rarely aids your case.

Quote: "He then states that he's annoyed by the way people are so offended. Nope, no bigotry."


No, he says he's annoyed that people have the nerve to be offended at all. Yes, that is bigotry.

Quote: "What was the point of that remark? I think I know what the point was -- and it wasn't to "further prove your point.""


I guess you have a point, my point did fail to pointedly point out the pointedness of my previous point's point.

Quote: "Ugh. Like I said earlier, I'm almost positive he was referring to the media. Check me on it."


He's not. At no point in his post does he make a refernece to the media, he's talking about the people.

Quote: "Logical fallacies? Mouse, it seems like in every single bickering contest you get into with other forum members (and I say bickering contest because really, that's all this is), you throw that term at them. Logical fallacies. Logical fallacies...

You disagree with me. That doesn't make my comments (nor nemo's) illogical."


Newsflash: The fact that everyone has an opinion doesn't make facts a bygone trend. It's becoming quite popular these days for people, when logic and reason are against them, to play the use-all "that's just your opinion so you can't be righter than me" card. And it is, as any trace of intelligent examination will reveal, total bull. The fact that I disagree with you doesn't make your views illogical; the fact that they are illogical does. And if you still have trouble grasping that there is and always will be a solid, unmoving reason behind all things no matter what people decide to think, perhaps it'll help for you to know that logic is mathematics, and every bit as unchanging and factual as grade school arithmetic.

Quote: "Quote: "Reputation for bad taste equals bad taste equals generalized bad taste equals no right to complain about bad taste? Interesting chain of broken logic."

Sorry, that equation has no solution."


Dear god in heaven, will you stop spewing out terms when you have no clue what they mean? Every equasion has a solution and my topic was the observation of an argument which was factually BANKRUPT.

Quote: "It goes something more like this:

Since we as Americans are fed bad taste every day, there's really no reason to be so caught up in all of this."


Not only are you twisting what Nemo said to something completely different, your argument is still not logical.

Quote: "Ouch, my feelings. Well, I hope you and your superiority complex are satisfied. With a comment like that, I know I'd be."


If you want to trim my ego down, try getting someone who tends to disagree with me and has some basic idea of logic and reason, such as Neophyte, to drop by this thread instead. I'd enjoy a good debate.

HZence
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 23:49 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 04:18
[...]


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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 00:22 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 00:23
Quote: "Yes, because violent media IS NOT A DISEASE THAT KILLS PEOPLE.

The logic is not the same."


The logic is identical. The content is irrelative to the structure of the argument, which is the same. It doesn't matter if it's rape, violent media or a disease, the argument about a lack of right to complain about it based on a generalized, bigoted assumption.

Quote: "
Nope.

Quote: "Making (incorrect [doesn't help]) assumptions about the people you're debating with rarely aids your case"

Boohoo, I made an assumption based on your statements. Sue me."


You have no argument in response, only a flat 'no' which does very little to reinforce your case. I've already proven you wrong and if you have nothing to respond to that but saying 'you're wrong', just give the damn thing up.

Quote: "YOU'LL HAVE TO SHOW ME A STATISTIC. "


My argument isn't based on one you moron

Quote: "My views are illogical. WHAT IS ILLOGICAL ABOUT THEM?

Mouse, this is an ARGUEMENT ABOUT OPINION."


No, it's not. Nemo said it was insulting that Americans, not the American media, excercised the right to complain about bad taste, with no argument backing him. You supported him. I have proved that you have no logic in support and that's the end of it. It's been proven very completely if you'll read my damn posts.

Quote: "The only thing that was truly wrong was you attacking Nemo and calling him a bigot."


I never attacked him, I said his argument was fallacious and bigoted. I have said nothing about him or his personality so forth and I don't plan to as it is irrelivant to what he posted. If you take offense at the fact that I'm not all sunshine and rainbows about him posting his bigoted (it's there whether you like it or not) opinion, get over it.

Quote: "Speaking of spitting out terms, factually bankrupt? *pukes*"


Look up the words...

Quote: "Illogical? Again, no, and I've already explained WHY."


No you haven't. I'll spell it out once again: Nemo posted an illogical generalization stating that it insulting him that Americans had the gall to excerice their right to complain about bad taste. Implicit to being insulted by something is that it is wrong. You backed this argument up. At no point has either of you ever given any logical structure for it.

Quote: "Another pathetic attempt to attack my statement due to its validity."


Here's an idea: Why don't you spell out your logic as I already have for you four times, since you have not once made it clear in all your mindless ranting?

Quote: "Debate? HA! you don't know debates."


Since I'm the one with a solid argument and you haven't even expressed yours, that's a rather amusing statement.

Quote: "I happen to be a member of JSA. There, we debate."


Ooh. JSA.

Quote: "Going through someone's online post and picking apart every little comment they make is not a debate. It's a bickering contest."


If you're not responding to every argument your opponent makes relating to the topics, it's not a damn debate-- once again you prove you don't know what you're talking about. Also intrinsic to debates is actually having an argument, which you don't.

Quote: "Yes, I'm bickering. I'm attacking you because I don't like you. And you're doing the same to me. It's the same thing when you're all over Raven whenver he talks."


If I liked you, my posts would certainly be rather less barbed. On the other hand, it'd be hard for me to do that even if you didn't have a previous history of... ahem... 'original debating'... anyone who wants a quick history lesson on this can do a search for HZense's amusing religion arguments.

Raven? Typically, I ignore him. Now and then it's irresistable to point out a particularly idiotic mistake-- most people who know him would, I think, agree, though most are more mature than I and just ignore him all the time .

Quote: "Oh, and don't drag other people into this."


I was providing a subject for my argument that you had no clue how to formally or informally debate; it would have been baseless and illogical otherwise, but then, that's your cup of tea isn't it?

HZence
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 04:24 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 04:24
I had a revelation in school today...

I'd like to issue a few apologies. First, to Major Payn, sorry for hijacking your thread. It's gone down the crapper to say the very least. Rather than risk getting it locked, I've edited all of my posts due to their nature.

Secondly, to the forum members, I'm sorry. There's always those people that totally contradict each other and get into long, pointless fights about it. You don't need that crap.

Finally, to Mouse, no matter how wrong you were, I shouldn't have even bothered. All we're doing is flaming each other. Back and forth. I'd be happy to finish it, but not here.

Here're me screen name(s):
1. AIM: HZence
2. MSN: hzence@dejazzd.com
3. E-Mail: hzence@dejazzd.com

We'll pick it up from there, as I do have numerous things to say about your last post.

Teehee.


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Leon J
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 06:40
I'm fine with movies with guns and shootups (Rush Hour, Men in Black) But this is numskulled crap. I saw this on tv, and i was mutturing "Oh my God! This is crap, who the h*** made this". I'm not sure about shooting games, but Medal of Honor: Allied Assault roolz. What would the NRA think? (((pointless post)))

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Major Payn
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 06:58
The NRA rock!

Guns arnt the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arnt a problem anymore.
Ilya
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 07:08
Meh wonders what Maddox would do.

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Ian T
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 07:27 Edited at: 7th Dec 2004 07:28
Okay guys


HZense and I have worked out our differences-- it's my personal preference not to edit out past posts, but since there doesn't seem to be anything productive going on now and it's still very much flamebait, I'll put an overdue lock on this.

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