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Dark GDK / Stupid questions & thoughts on SDK.

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Sinistar
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:15
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DB Pro compiles to machine code. C++ compiles to machine code.
Both use the same 3d functions in Direct X.

Why is C++ compiled machine code so much faster? What is stopping dbpro code from being compiled tighter to get similar results?

I'm excited about the SDK, and I'll probably buy it, but I understand why some people are turned off by it. EG why not tgc spend the extra time making db pro faster instead?

What I'm afraid of as a long time db pro user, is that db pro will not be supported as well as it could be because of all the time and attention on other products.

Ooh oh I just thought of another question: If we make a DLL using DSK, and use it in a predominantly DB PRO project how would you view the licencing on that kind of thing?
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:20 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 02:21
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DBpro has a lot of checking and stuff in it (still) - compiled BASIC is inherently slow because its not structured and lots of error checking is usually added too (although, of course you can still write fast games).
Once Lee starts looking at the compiler, things should start to speed up.

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
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Sinistar
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:25
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PS. I just looked at the shareware pricing and its totally reasonable. $124 extra to sell your games online? No big deal.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:28
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Indeed - cant see what people complain about

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 02:41
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Not a clue why people are complaining.....

-This...is my boomstick!
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Sinistar
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 03:39
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Anybody know the answer to my last question?

If we make a DLL using DSK, and use it in a predominantly DB PRO project how would you view the licencing on that kind of thing?

also what if we write a NuclearGlory type thing like uh... "SinFX Dll" (purely hypothetical) for db pro using the dSDK? (or can you even do that)
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IanM
Retired Moderator
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Location: In my moon base
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 04:36
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You shouldn't use the SDK to create a DBPro plug-in - it's only meant to be used to create stand-alone programs.

*** Coming soon - Network Plug-in - Check my site for info ***
For free Plug-ins and source code http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
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CattleRustler
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 05:13
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I think people are complaining because they have already shelled out a bunch of mony for DBP and whatever add ons, only to find the ide, the programming language, and the debugger, all to be fairly crappy and would much rather use an sdk version from something like visual studio 6 c++ or whatever. The stuff they already paid for was royalty free, now they basically have to buy dbp all over again, and then pay a shareware fee on top.

I think thats what people are on about - currently I dont have that worry as I dont have a version of the SDK for .NET that I can use. Ill moan about that other stuff when a .NET version is released


DBP_NETLIB_v1.4.3 DarkTOPIA site coming soon!
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Argon Knight
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Location: Gastonia, NC, USA
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 05:29
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On the topic of money, least we forget we paid to be on the dev forums (DBDN) at one time.

On the topic of DLLs, the SDk allows us more flexibility in our code and data structures than the DBP runtime can, even going thru a TPC. At least for us programmers that do work in the C++ environment.

On .Net, maybe one of the commercial license will give us the source code, like A5 used to do. then we can go all .Net on it.
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Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:25
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Quote: "Ill moan about that other stuff when a .NET version is released"


But is a .NET version going to be released? I have asked that question in a new thread but none of the developers have responded yet.


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 06:27
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You've got a 50% chance...

Walk softly... and carry a big gun...
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Necronos
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 07:17
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make it simple and buy torque + torque shader for 250$ and until your sells reach a income of 250k$ per year you do not even need the commercial license. And you have full engine sources and an award winning network structure ( not an award winning bugstructure )
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Mike Johnson
TGC Developer
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2004 16:42 Edited at: 3rd Dec 2004 16:43
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Necronos - there are many SDKs available and they all have different pricing schemes and offer different features etc. All have their advantages and disadvantages. While you could argue that Torque seemingly offers a better deal when you look into it more does it? Do you get the ease of use the comes with the Dark Game SDK? Can it offer all of the features that the Dark Game SDK has? And your point about bugs - it's very easy to point and say something is full of bugs. I don't see any bug reports from you in the bug reports forum so are you running into any problems or are you just saying it because it's easy to judge. While there are a few issues I don't think they're as major as you make out.

Mike
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Unkelben
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Location: Montréal, Canada
Posted: 4th Dec 2004 01:27
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About Torque...

I bought Torque two years ago to develop a new game. The thing is powerful enough but after months of trying, I never managed to really use it in the way I intended. I'm far from being a power C coder but I'm not a newbie either in game development, having already released a full 2d adventure game (www.absurdus.net).

Since I'm working with darkbasic, dedvelopment has been going much faster. Of course, the performances are not equal but I prefer to release a slow game than no game. Furthermore, Darkbasic isn't that slow and DarkSdk promises to make the engine even more competitive.

Overall, choose your engine according to your skills, game design, resources and ambition. (this all seems obvious, I wonder now why I wanted to write this.)

Jonathan

Jonathan
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Sinistar
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Posted: 4th Dec 2004 01:34
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Quote: "Of course, the performances are not equal but I prefer to release a slow game than no game."


Amen to that, brotha.
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Freddix
AGK Developer
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Posted: 5th Dec 2004 23:38
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you know ... there are commercial games on PS2 or XBOX that run at 25fps on 640x480 resolution !!! so ... speed isn't the most important thing ... you can make commercial games at 25fps

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Chris K
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 00:19
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You'd be surprised how smooth 20 fps can look.
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Chenak
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Posted: 6th Dec 2004 10:12
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dbp seems to run rather crappy under 60 fps
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Sinistar
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Posted: 7th Dec 2004 02:19
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Duke Nukem 3d target fps was like 20 or 30. 30 is fine and even 20 looks ok. The human eye can't really tell the difference much after 30 anyhow, so I wonder why anybody cares much after that.
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