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3 Dimensional Chat / 3dsMax. worth the price?

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BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 10:33
Is 3dsMax worth the $3000 you put forth to own. Now dont chew me out
for this question just explain to me if you think 3ds max is worth a wopping 3000 big ones.


edit: Im just a concerned programmer. I have 3ds Max so I know how good it is

¤§Ben§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studio) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Mason
Chenak
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 21st Dec 2004 10:57
$3000 is for the commercial edition for if you wanna actually sell your models, the student version is about $300 i believe
BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:00
still pretty expensive, but I bought the commercial version but Im loose with money if know what I mean.

¤§Ben§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studio) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Mason
Mason
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:10
Ya, but $3000 dollars is still way overpriced (In My book) for a commercial license. I got 3ds max for Christmas last year with the commercial license but I'm sure that its worth that much.

¤§Mason§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studios) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Ben
Chenak
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:19
not really, its a licence for up to 5 people so $3000 is pretty reasonable for a company into 3d design and such, for making models for a hobby game.. a lil much
BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:24
Excatly what I was thinking
But Me ML Mason are in a small company

¤§Ben§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studio) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Mason
Mason
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:36
Ya I know that, but I guess from my point of view its a little different ya know.

¤§Mason§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studios) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Ben
Shadow Robert
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 21st Dec 2004 11:54
3D Studio Max is only worth what the artist can do with it.

For a Maya artist it is worth about $10, for a Max artist it is worth every penny. If your artist cannot use it in thier development pipeline then you'll have to spend out on another product.

This is why these programs have trials you can order / download. So you can see if the program suits you before spending the money.
For a Game Developer or CG Studio, the product's price is usually negated by the revenue made... for Hobbiests you have to really think more because it'll hit you harder in the pocket.

Professional Programs DO NOT Make You Professional Artists.
Neither will tutorials. You have to either recieved professional training, have natural talent, or a damn raw determination.
The tools are not designed to do everything for you, they are designed to speed up development pipelines.

So the question isn't... 'Is 3D Studio Max worth $3,250?'
It is more... 'Do I feel it is worth $3,250?'


Mason
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 16:55
Wow, for once I actually agree with Raven (though I dislike it) I see your point. I believe it is worth what I spent. But is Maya Really that bad. I have heard much about it, but I haven't actually seen it.

¤§Mason§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studios) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Ben
BenDstraw
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 16:56
Thank you all for your opinon but the damage to the budget is done!

¤§Ben§¤

B-L (Black Lab Studio) *Woof* ~ Other Member(s): BL Mason
Jonny Ree
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 18:22
Woah, I'm only used to getting xmas gift in the price-class $1 to $100.. and $3000 is.. unbelivable!

Anyway, in my eyes it would be worth it.. but I agree with Raven on this one.. partly at least. It depends on the skill level people are at.. if you've got the artistic skills, which program you choose in the same level of 3dsmax, maya or XSI etc doesnt really matter.

I've just started using 3D software, and I feel I'm catching on pretty quick.. I started out with Gmax and then 3DsMax Trail.. I ended up buying a cheap XSI version though. it will have to do for one with the amoung of money I've currently got.. but I feel it really doesnt matter because its all about the eye on details.

Anyway, I'm kinda off topic now.. so back on; Do I think its worth it? yes.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 19:08
Quote: "But is Maya Really that bad. I have heard much about it, but I haven't actually seen it."


I want talking about for a Maya Artist, 3D Studio Max is worthless.
I used it as a base, simply because that is what I am, and I do feel that 3D Max is an overpriced version of Milkshape.
Like it or not though I've had to use it, because I don't get to always choose my tools when I am employed.


IanG
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Posted: 21st Dec 2004 19:31
i would say definetly, i've got 3ds max 7 and it can do anything you want it to, it has got many features that could be used for games - the material export as a directx shader, the normal bump map export, texture baking and character studio 4 being intergrated into the program - i would say that it is a good buy, but the question is do you like it?

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
AlecM
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2004 13:47 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2004 13:48
I can't believe I am saying this but, Raven is dead on.

I use max and its worth every penny to me. I had a job where I had to learn maya and after playing around with PLE for a month or so I realized that I never wanted to use it again. Maybe its because max is my fist love (second actually, but the first was truespace which is crap) and I have spend years learning it.. But something about maya just doesn't click with me. Everything feels inefficient poorly designed to me. Im sure maya users feel the same way about max though.

I think max is worth the 3000 because I feel like I am in total control with it. When I use max I feel like the possibilities are limitless and that I can model anything if I put enough time and effort into the model. I do wish max had a few more features though. Like being able to bake texture data based on the position of the camera and the model. That would be really really handy.
Max also has the feel of a $3000 app. Things like autobackup, good stability, flexibility, and a tool set I don't think anyone fully knows.

I would shell out $10,000 if thats how much max cost. Its worth every penny.

IanG
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2004 21:43
Quote: " Everything feels inefficient poorly designed to me"

same here - i've never like maya, it's like a baby version of max where you have to tell it that you want to model, so switch it into model mode, the you need to animate, so put it in to model mode, it really takes the piss, but with max there is no messing about with modes, you just do want you want to...until it crashes

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2004 22:40
See, that is my point really. The fact that you feel Maya is inefficient, as from my point of view the entire interface is more intuative.

It is talked about the Modes, but that isn't true. Unlike Lightwave where you have different programs and you have to wait for different areas to load up or run them all at the same time, swapping mesh between programs. Maya is just really a way of grouping things.

Change to Animation and you get a large number of menu's aimed at Animation tools, Change to Modelling and you get the modelling menu's appear.

You can still access the general stuff you want to use via the Tabbed Menu, so you can Animated, Model, etc.. all at the same time, you just have a cleaner main menu that has specific tools for what your doing at that point in time.

Furthermore you can switch between the menu interfaces with the number keys, which allows for quick switching.

Press Spacebar and Hold it in your viewport, and you have every menu directly available to you right there. Right-Click on a Mesh and you have all of the operations needed for selection there.

Side Panels are expandable for specifying actual values and editing in layers. But generally speaking not needed.
Your Tranformation & Views are on the other side.
Your Animation Keyframe & Maya Editor Language down the bottom.

General features in the tabs above, then above that you get into specifics for the current Interface.

So from my perspective, the UI is far more intuative providing you with everything at basically 1-Click away, and if it isn't.. then you can very very quickly edit things without any hassle to dow what you want via MEL, or even just dragging commands.
You can pull apart the UI including the main menu, and place things where-ever you choose; So if you prefer 3D Max's Layout, it's possible to easily recreate it.

While Maya is obviously not a CAD program like Max, what I do prefer are how the tools work, and the stability of the program.

Maya has never crashed on me, it's cutting tools don't create faces until you export or cut them yourself... if you ever find you have loose Vertices, simply select all of them and press 'Delete' just to get rid of those vertices that are loose.

But this does all come down to preferences. I mean honestly I dislike 3D Studio Max with quite a vengance; but provided you have talent no matter what tools your using you can often produce the same results, might take a bit longer and be frustrating but work-out just fine.

If your happy with something then it's worth what you've paid, if not then you'll feel it was a waste of cash. This goes with anything though really doesn't it?

From my perspective, Max isn't worth it's price tag, but as it is an industry standard... it is an invaluable product to know to provide me with a wider range of skills, allowing me to adapt to other companies pipelines rather than forcing them to either teach me, slow to my pace in that product, or change to another product I do know.

As most hobbiests only have to answer to yourselves, doesn't matter not knowing what you don't find good to use.

Actually right now for modellers it is quite good, because you now have Free versions of products with which to learn on to see what you do and don't like.
When I learnt most of these products a decade ago, you have to purchase the full versions, so it was a gamble spending money on a product you weren't quite sure what it was going to be like.

Maya was the program most people were with when pipelines changed to 3D because really there was no alternative; but when 3D Studio Max r2 was released, it provided a good cheap alternative. Hense why it is currently one of the most used products, cause it was cheap heh.


John H
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 13:22
Its nice to see a thread about people thinking of actually buying max. It's obviously suspicous how all these 13 year old have maya, 3ds max, lightwave, photoshop, the works isnt it?

And just so I do have some input in the thread, everything Raven said is spot on.

Now I dont have to type a lot and can get to bed - Thanks Raven


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flibX0r
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Posted: 25th Dec 2004 22:07
i prefer max. I've tried maya, but i prefer max. Its not the layout of anything, its just that i find polygon modelling easier in max


Tis the season to be gready...
Badname
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Posted: 26th Dec 2004 08:43 Edited at: 26th Dec 2004 08:55
The student version is 100 euro so that must be like 80$ ;O quite afordable imo.

Chenak - were does it say it is a lisence for 5 people, cant find it anywere om the website

3D modeler & Texture artist
Badname's FREE MODEL PACKS @ http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=42656&b=3
AlecM
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Posted: 26th Dec 2004 10:16
", it's cutting tools don't create faces until you export or cut them yourself."
I hate mayas cut tool. That whole rule about not crossing line segments you havent reached yet is annoying. Max can be a pain the ass about cuts creating extra verts. Its only when you miss but its pretty easy to miss. Generally I turn on vertex snap which seems to help.

Matthew Jones
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Posted: 26th Dec 2004 10:52
I bought MAX 3 years ago after running a student version for year. I cried to autodesk that MAYA was cheaper and they gave me MAX and a subscription for 2500 for 3dsMAX5. Worth every penny.
If you shelled out $3000 dollers for 3dsMAX7 make sure to scrape beg and borrow for the extra $450 to get the subscription. AutoDesk and Discreet are both, now on a 1 year cycle. You can expect new versions of the 3d software on or about Novemeber of every year. With the subscription you pay 450$ a year and get you new version for free pluss training, events, and the next versions PLUGIN set. In january they are realeasing their NEW Cloth plugins, which from what I have heard is unbeleivable compared to others including Reactor Cloth.
I just purchased Combustion ($598 on sale) and Cleaner ($498) and if your into video and the whole art pipeline deal they absolutly worth every penny.
I own MAYA and XSI but neither are as usefull to me as MAX and discreet's art pipeline.

Matt

Did yuo konw taht the hmuan biran deos not need crorect seplling to raed udnresntad a seenntce. It jsut needs the fsirt and lsat lteetr to be coerrct. FACT!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 09:32
Quote: "I hate mayas cut tool. That whole rule about not crossing line segments you havent reached yet is annoying. Max can be a pain the ass about cuts creating extra verts. Its only when you miss but its pretty easy to miss. Generally I turn on vertex snap which seems to help."


Heh, this is why Maya has 'PolySplit' (Cut), and 'PolySlice' (Max Style Cut) tools. There is nothing like slicing a polygon for areas, selecting the vertices and pressing delete to clean up the mesh; then go in with the split tool for creating detail.

I suppose in Maya after a while of using it, you forget that your not using the standard tool layout as it is so simple to alter the UI and tools to your own preference or tasks. Something I never could get used to with Max was how static everything felt... Either you used thier tools and layout or read the phonebook it calls a manual for things that appear not to be there.
Tried to change the UI back to Max 4/5 when 6 was release, but gave up after 2 weeks and decided not to use it anymore at home. I always loved using the 'y' Tab menu, when they took it away it felt far to akward to use the program.


Erick G
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 10:52
I have just started modelling, and I am learning Maya, and enjoying every bit of it. I am also studying it online.

I have never used max before, so I could not give my opinion on that. My best friend swears by Maya, and uses it for his proffesional work, as well as low poly game modelling.

It is probably a case of "use what is best for you". I have found Maya to be very complicated at times but again, I only know maya
IanG
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 19:57
max can be complex at times but it's all about learning about the software you use - i use max and i have recently started to look in to maya and i can definetly say that maya has a more complex interface for me, but the hair, fire and smoke effects among others are much easier to use than the ones in max

Used to be Phoenix_insane registered in september 2003 despite what the date says to the left <--
PC - amd athlon 2.0ghz, 512mb, GeForce FX 5200 128mb, 200gb, xp pro sp2
BenDstraw
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Posted: 1st Jan 2005 03:16
Wow, I started a thread for people to say if they prefer Maya or Max. Off topic from worth. But thats ok because I learned 2 things from one thread. Keep it up this could be hot topic.

¤§Ben§¤
Free is good price eh then visit
http://www.geocities.com/blacklab_studios

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