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Dark GDK / Question about c++ and DGSDK

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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 22:37
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How much actual C++ do I need to know to use this program? I have already created a matrix textured it can move around on the matrix made a cube textured it and can move it around make it rotate etc... but my knowledge of C++ is very limited and very basic. I do have a book called C++ primer plus fifth editon and have about three chapters done but I really want to get into using the SDK so do I need to take a year to work through this book or should I just jump into the SDK and use this book as a reference when I need to do something I don't know how to do?

thanks
Dragonslayer
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 22:56 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2004 22:57
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Pace yourself.

I read a chapter of a book a night. Therefore you can "play" with the DGSDK during the day and read at night. In about a month in a half, you will have a pretty good understanding. The hardest part is "Catching" how OOP works. It's not really learned, it's "Caught". When that takes place, your head will filll up with so many tables, list, arrays, etc that you will wonder why you decided to program in the first place.

P.S.
Make *SURE* you do the exercises in the end if each chapter. Just reading the chapter won't help, you need to type it in, for then you will start to pick up the editor and such.

-This...is my boomstick!
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Erick G
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 23:14
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Good thing you have one of the best C++ books out there Very good book.

You will learn by doing, but yeah, read it, then play with the SDK, wash , rinse and repeat.
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 23:21
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The book I have is very involved and to read a chapter a night and understand it would be impossible. Also I have noticed it goes into aome areas that you probably don't need to know like how things were done using older versiond of C++ and older compilers. I do have some other books that are smaller and therefore easier to go through. Game programming all in one Visual c++ in 24 hrs, visual basic for dummies and a couple of others so maybe I will use those.

I was just interested in finding this out it may help other people in thier decision to use the sdk. It seems to me you can do everything you can do in DBP without a whole lot of c++ knowledge. Of course you will get to the point where you will want to make your own functions and classes.

I really don't like following a book page by page and typing in some boring code I want to do the good stuff. I have done that and I probably know more than I think I do. I do know all the basics functions, arrays, types, I still have some trouble with pointers and classes and I'm not to sure about polymorphisn, encaptulation and object overloading, but do you really need to know all that to create a game with the SDK?

I have found with a lot of the books is that the author really knows what he is talking about but and writes it like that but does not really explain things the way a person that does not have a clue can understand.

I have been studing C++ for quite a few years off and on and have hardly scratched the surface.
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Erick G
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2004 23:45
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Well yes, you do need to know all of that if you expect to utilize C++ to its full.
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 01:50
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Well I figure to do it and do it right you need to know it all but is there a point to where you have learned enough to learn as you go?

I feel I'm to a point that I can get started and then if I hit the brick wall I can find what I need from a book read up on it then adjust my code accordingly.

I'm just tired of reading long drawn out long winded explinations that you can only half understand. I would like to find something like this

This is polymorphisim
about a half a paragraph this is how it works really simple and easy to understand

this is how you implament it there you go now do it!
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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 02:02
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well if you dont start you wont get anywhere So yeah, if you get stuck then just drop thread here, and I am sure will get help.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 02:52
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@Dragonslayer:

I have been thinking about your problem... and I have a solution that I have come up with.

I wonder if TGC would mind if I "teach" C++ on a thread. Therefore people can get used to the Dark Game SDK and I could help out a bunch of people at the same time. Also, after we are done, they would have some REALLY great tutorials.

What say you Dragonslayer? Would you be insterested in such a project?

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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 02:59
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That is a really good idea, we can make it sticky then
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:13
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Yes I would and I'm sure lots of others would also. The SDK is here with help files but no tutorials. I think that would help lots of others that want to take advantage of C++ and the SDK but don't know where to start.

I don't think TGC should care all it would be is a sticky thread in this forum.

It could get to big though so that you may have to put the tutorials on a website.

Dragonslayer
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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:18
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I dont mind writing tutorials either.

Just ask what you need help with, sticky is the only means we have right now.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:22
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Thanks.

I'm thinking about it some more. I could make "labs" that you can download from my website...

I am not sure who I would need to talk to, to gather a list of people willing to "take the course". I don't mind doing it just for you Dragonslayer, but if I can help more people the better.

Would almost have to make a forum to this project, for each lab people could respond to the thread for that lab. Therefore people could share what they have learned...

Let me ponder this for a few hours por favor.

Would also need a moderator willing to monitor for flaming threads and such.

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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:31
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That may be a lot of work for you don't do it just for me I do have lots of books to learn from. If you get a lot of interest in this and do go on with it I would be one of your first signups.

Would your labs be straight C++ or would it be c++ and how to apply it using the Dark Game SDK? like starting from scratch and make a small game step by step trying to fit as much as you can in it such as function creation, making a class for characters, weapons etc...

Dragonslayer
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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:32
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The best person to speak to is Richard, I dont mind moderating those threads obviously.

Then again those threads could maybe go into the "other languages" forum ?
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:38
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Well if they are strictly C++ and the SDK why would they go into the other forums? Unless someone wants to port them to DBC or DBP

Dragonslayer
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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:40
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yeah, just post them here, will make em sticky for now.
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:47
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The labs that I am thinking about are C++ with DGSDK, since that is what people are here for anyways.

I'm just worried that it will get out of hand, with people getting more advanced, and wanting to know more (i.e. "How do I xxxx").

Example: Lab 1 would be about setting up the Camera and Screen Resolution using a Init function. Since that is boring, I'm afraid that I will get "How do I load my Quake 3 level into this", which would then "How do I make a killer weapon model, How to I make an explosion" and the whole point was to show how to set up the Camera. The questions would have to be related to the lab.

Me still thinking...

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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:56
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yeah, I spoke to Mike, and he says there is apossibility that we will get a darksdk bug forum, snippet forum etc...

Lets hope
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 03:58
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Then make that a rule set up rules like only questions relating to this lab will be answered. Set each lab up in an individual thread and make it a sticky after a while I think everyone will start answering each others questions. Maybe you can make that quake thing a lab. I do have quake source code that was free on a website a few years ago. I downloaded it but never did anything with it. I don't think it is a level I think it is the complete source code for an early version of quake.

Dragonslayer
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 04:06
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Right. Hence the need for the moderator to nix the non-lab related topics. I don't want that position, because if I think the person is a (insert insult here) I may be tempeted to nix the post, which would be unfair. Having a third party do it is much better for me. I can give advice such as "please stay on lab topic xxx".

I will try and put a "mockup" lab either tonight or tomorrow and pass it off to you both to take a quick look at it.

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Erick G
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 04:28
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I will help where I can wrt moderator rights.
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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 04:43
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I don't think you would need a full time moderator for this. Just make a few quick rules that you put at the beginning of each lab like
1. If you ask questions in this lab stay on the topic of the lab, any other questions ask in the general Dark Game SDK forum.

If someone does it anyway there will probably a mod or someone else to tell them that is off topic and to post in the main forum.

That is probably the only rule you need for a thread like this plus all of the general rules of TGC's forums and posting would apply.

Maybe you would want to set a time table for each lab, like one lab a week or one every two weeks or what ever you feel comfertable doing.

Dragonslayer
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 04:48
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Once a week is what I am looking at. 10 Total labs. This would allow you to both learn C++ as well as write a simple MMORPG (hehe).

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Dragonslayer
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 05:07
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That sounds good, I wonder if we can rename this thread or start another one on this topic to see how much interest there is. If you are just going to do this for 2 or 3 people I don't think you should.

There is a whole community out there a lot who might want to switch to c++ and the SDK but if they can't get a quick way to get up and running might not, So maybe you should test the waters before you go to a lot of trouble.

Then again you could just do it and they would be there as a sticky in this forum for anyone who wanted to take advantage of it!

Dragonslayer
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 05:16
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We would start another one. All this is was talk about doing it, nothing addressing the problem.

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Peter H
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 07:27
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I would definetly appreciate such a thread/tutorial!

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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MiR
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 17:14
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Yes. It would be very cool. I´m having big problems with structure in my game. I´m going to use a method simular to the way win32 works but I´m unsure it´s the best way of doing it. So I tutorial like this would be great!


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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 17:21
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You might be interested in one or more of these :

http://kdat.csc.calpoly.edu/~ltauck/THESIS/C_Tutorial.html
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/
http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html

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MiR
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 19:59
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Cool. Those tutorials use the same structure for thier games as my game
Thanks The Christmas Area
lol


A bargain at 640000€
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 24th Dec 2004 22:48
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Yes, the only difference is that I was going to focus on using the Dark Game SDK, and since I have worked for a few gaming companies as well as have some of my own games under my belt, I thought it would be good to pass on what I have learned.

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 01:12
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Spent a little time on it this weekend, but due to Christmas, didn't get near what I wanted to on lab 1.

Let me work on it and give you all a draft.

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MiR
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 03:26
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There´s no rush. Enjoy xmas. We´ll be glad to see when your ready


The perfect xmas present.
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Erick G
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 13:57
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Another good reference is http://www.bruceeckel.com . His Thinking in C++ books ( free pdf ) are really good.
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