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FPSC Classic Product Chat / shader question

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Dr Evil
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Posted: 31st Jan 2005 02:51
can you use one shader for everything in your game and have the diff objects have different textures? so you could write one complex shader that would be used for everything so you could achieve a particular overall affect like unified shadows or something of that nature or cell shading?
Noldor
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Posted: 31st Jan 2005 02:59
My guess would be no.
But i could be wrong.
Dr Evil
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Posted: 31st Jan 2005 11:31
i guess nobody knows. i'm sure it would be possible if they are using directX 9 and were using the FX shader models. but like noldor i don't know.
Dr Evil
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 09:43
BRRRRR sure is cold in questionville. throw me a bone here guys. no ones touching this one huh?
Cloud of Crows Studios
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 11:18
Quote: "can you use one shader for everything in your game and have the diff objects have different textures? so you could write one complex shader that would be used for everything so you could achieve a particular overall affect like unified shadows or something of that nature or cell shading? "


In theory it seems like there is no reason why you couldn't, but all I have are theories

Lee's diaries alude to make sure FPSC has some level of compatability with other shaders outside of the four included with the EA release BUT then again many beta testers have said that the shaders have a very subtle effect so it may be that even the most prominent shader (cell shading for example) may not do exactly what you expect it to do. A lot will depend on how FPSC processes shaders (if I'm even understanding the process correctly)

Keep in mind too that your question can't really be easily answered by a beta tester (heck it can't easily be answered by anyone unless they are willing to create a complex shader and apply it to a whole bunch of things and test out a level with walls, objects, entities, etc.)

This is one of those things that you may very well have to attempt yourself after the software is released.

Sounds like an interesting idea though (if it will work)

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SoulMan
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 12:38
I think what they are refering to is lighting. Do to the fact that you are not using dynamic lights it's not going to have that big of an impact with the shaders. I think what they were going for was shaders that could do the job and look nice but only to a certain degree.
SoulMan

This is as backwards as is This
Rob K
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 15:38
Quote: "Do to the fact that you are not using dynamic lights it's not going to have that big of an impact with the shaders. I think what they were going for was shaders that could do the job and look nice but only to a certain degree."


That doesn't actually matter too much. The light source for the shaders is a point somewhere just above the player. It is true that you cannot really see the shaders if lightmapping is turned off, since the game is too bright.


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Richard Davey
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 19:40
Quote: "can you use one shader for everything in your game and have the diff objects have different textures?"


Shaders are applied on-top of the objects (which are usually already textured). Some shaders replace the texture totally, others don't - it's down to the shader. While you could apply one to every object in your game it would be a seriously bad idea (think about it from a performance point of view).

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Dr Evil
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 21:31
Richard Davey- i was under the impression that it would be better for performance to have just one shader on everything because the engine would only have to do the calculation for the one shader rather than multiple shaders. i dunno.
but thanks to everyone for the replies.
Noldor
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Posted: 1st Feb 2005 22:16
He means that you maby should have NO shader on some objects and
ONE shader on others. Only use shaders on the most
important objects.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2005 04:59
I meant don't apply a shader to every single element in your map - for a pixel shader it's going to have to calculate the shade effect for every single pixel in the scene. For a vertex shader it'll do the same for every single of the many many vertices in one scene - that is where the performance hit comes in, the sheer mass of calculations going on. Use them in choice places for the best effect.

Super Joe crack combat soldier fights a long battle against overwhelming odds.
Noldor
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2005 05:54
My point exactly..
Altouh it always sounds better
when comming from an admin. Because
you know that they know what they
are talking about.
(unlike me)
Rob K
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2005 06:40
Quote: "Richard Davey- i was under the impression that it would be better for performance to have just one shader on everything because the engine would only have to do the calculation for the one shader rather than multiple shaders. i dunno."


A shader isn't a piece of code which runs just once per rendering sequence. It has to be run for every pixel or vertex which it applies to (depending on whether it is a pixel or vertex shader).

Imagine the number of calculations involved for 1024*768 pixels!


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Chimera
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2005 20:08
Quote: "Imagine the number of calculations involved for 1024*768 pixels!"


So does this mean it will work quicker on my computer with 800*600 pixels? Less to calculate, no?

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Mr Flowerkohl
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Posted: 2nd Feb 2005 20:15
hmmm yes i think so. but another question is , are the shaders calculated in real time while i play a game , or are they calculated like lightmapping ???
and , do we have the bump mapping shader ? ( thinks of doom3 ^^ )

yeah...thats the ticket !
blanky
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2005 03:56
Real-time, while you play the game.

As for 'the bump-mapping shader', I dunno :s

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