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Geek Culture / Is it truly possible to make stunning graphics with indi game developer software?

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SageTech
19
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 08:38
I have looked at my models and levels (they look like poo but...) many times and said to myself "These look great and all, but compared to any game today, its horrible". Now, i know how nice the level or model look depends on how good a person is at making them, but most levels and games nowdays are made by huge teams, and i dont think it's easy to compete with thier graphics. So my question really is, has any indi game developer made a game using some indi game developer program such as db/dbpro/blitzbasic3d etc. that had great graphics?

Sage Tech Manager
Mattman
21
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Joined: 5th Jun 2003
Location: East Lansing
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 08:52
It's not dependant on the lanugage at all in my opinion, its the modellor. It's hard to find great 3d people on the indie scene.

Something to doing?
BearCDPOLD
21
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 08:56
It all depends on your skill. The software can limit you a bit, but mostly it's your skill.

Check these guys out:
http://www.artificialstudios.com/company.php

Found out about them in the Indie section of the IGDA boards. I believe they started writing this in college and finished a little after they graduated. Something like that....

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Mr Underhill
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Location: The Forgotten Worlds...
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:02
Possible? Yes. Likely? No.
Remember that most games made today have millions of dollars invested in top story writers, modellers, programmers, etc.
It all comes back to the Golden Rule of Game Programing:
It's not the software that makes the game. It's the people.

My name is Underhill...commit it to memory.
"Vee vill drive zhem from zee peer-to-peer sites, vee vill beat zhem vith a stick!" ~Leo Laporte, mocking the RIAA
Major Payn
20
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Joined: 16th Dec 2003
Location: United States of America
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:02
Quote: " It all depends on your skill. The software can limit you a bit, but mostly it's your skill.

Check these guys out:
http://www.artificialstudios.com/company.php

Found out about them in the Indie section of the IGDA boards. I believe they started writing this in college and finished a little after they graduated. Something like that....
"


Holy cow! That engine kicks the source engine in the nuts!

Guns arn't the problem, people are the problem, shoot all the people and guns arn't a problem anymore.
Mason
20
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Joined: 20th Mar 2004
Location: Arizona
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:02
Sorry, but I don't know what you mean by "indi" but I think I understand what your asking. I have seen some decent looking games in Dark Basic but I think the reason you don't see these amazing games is that people move on to better languages. Dark Basic is called "Basic" because it simplifies a language. So once you understand the basics, everyone moves up. I'm sure if someone really wanted to make a good graphic game in Dark Basic, they could, but if they tried it in other languages the game could be up to 10x better. Plus, I'm not sure if Dark Basic could support pumped up graphics such as Doom 3 and still give you legitimate frames.

Besides all that, I was looking around and I found some decent graphics on these DB games. Here are the links taking you to them

Room War
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=showcase_view&i=221

Becher Race 2003
http://darkbasicpro.thegamecreators.com/?m=showcase_view&i=161

Equilibrium Combat Demo
http://darkbasic.thegamecreators.com/?m=showcase_view&i=71

I think out of a good majority of DB games that are in the showcase, those are some of the best graphics wise.

Mr Underhill
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Joined: 23rd Apr 2003
Location: The Forgotten Worlds...
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:13
Quote: "Quote: " It all depends on your skill. The software can limit you a bit, but mostly it's your skill.

Check these guys out:
http://www.artificialstudios.com/company.php

Found out about them in the Indie section of the IGDA boards. I believe they started writing this in college and finished a little after they graduated. Something like that....
"

Holy cow! That engine kicks the source engine in the nuts!
"

*drools* I agree. If only TGC could get in touch with those guys.

My name is Underhill...commit it to memory.
"Vee vill drive zhem from zee peer-to-peer sites, vee vill beat zhem vith a stick!" ~Leo Laporte, mocking the RIAA
PiratSS
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Joined: 18th Oct 2002
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Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:15
DarkBasic isn't the limit, it's the media.
Mason
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Location: Arizona
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 09:27
Quote: "DarkBasic isn't the limit, it's the media."

Not trying to be stubborn or offend you, but thats not completely true. Compared to other languages such as C++ and C#, Dark Basic is very limited. I believe that you can create a $50 game with Dark Basic, but It would be much better if you were to program it in a better language.

Btw, that engine is crazy good....

BearCDPOLD
21
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Location: AZ,USA
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 10:38
I almost wet my pants when I first saw it....

In reality you could say that DB by itself is limited. Of course, you can always expand it, but in order to expand it you need to be fluent in other languages.

Crazy Donut Productions, Current Project: Project Starbuks
Sony stole our name!
Ian T
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Location: Around
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 13:22 Edited at: 14th Feb 2005 13:24
Modern game graphics relies on far more than a 3d textured mesh. Game weapons, for example, have dynamic ammo indicators on the object, complex animations, bump/normal mapping, and enviornment mapping. Doom 3 had its objected created in incredibly high detail for the normal maps, and reduced for the dynamic mesh, something that alone takes far more time and skill than most indy teams can afford; upcoming games have multiple maps for every little object (specular map, normal map, diffuse map, parralax map), never mind the high polygonal detail, difficult and complex shader technology, and ever more difficult to create photorealistic textures.

What I'm getting at here is that no, you can't do it well enough; the independant developer will always be a step behind in the technology department. Unless you happen to find some incredibly talented people who are willing to work for you, of course, but that won't happen because these incredibly talented people are off making incredible amounts of money at incredible game development houses, and that's just how it goes. Even if it somehow was to happen against all odds, you still wouldn't have the leverage (IE cash) to get behind-the-scenes info and technology on what's coming up next in the computer graphics hardware industry, which is how titles like Oblivion and Unreal 3 start working with such high tech stuff so early. We're not at the top of the food chain-- adapt and compensate

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
Mason
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Posted: 14th Feb 2005 13:45
Couldn't have said it any better Mouse

Van B
Moderator
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 14th Feb 2005 16:49
People expect so much from DB though, like they buy it and expect to be writing a D3 beater, simply because they've dreamt it all in their heads already and it'll be so cool.

Frankly, the chances of DBPro making a game to compete graphically with D3 are too stupid for any DB'er to contemplate - however graphics aren't the be-all and end-all - if your game looks attractive and is fun to play, then to hell any gfx snobs who don't like it.

Thing is, I see solo developers as higher in the food chain than most professionals. When you consider each facet of solo game development in relation to the whole thing, the combined work is infinately more important than any number of neato models or effects. Taking an entire project from A to Z and everywhere inbetween is something that most of these pro's could never do.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
SageTech
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Joined: 3rd Dec 2004
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posted: 15th Feb 2005 01:38
agreed, your mod wisdom answers all.

Sage Tech Manager
Hamish McHaggis
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Joined: 13th Dec 2002
Location: Modgnik Detinu
Posted: 15th Feb 2005 03:10
*Bows down*

Isn't it? Wasn't it? Marvellous!
Hawkeye
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Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 15th Feb 2005 04:35
I agree with Mouse and Van-B

"
"Timesoft: Your wife is death. HOW?!! No idea. But it is murder! REVENGE!"
Ian T
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Posted: 15th Feb 2005 23:43
Wow. Thanks

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber

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