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Geek Culture / For or Against the Phantom? (new console)

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Matto
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 02:21
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I just learned about a NEW to be released this year gaming Consol, it's called the phantom and claims to have over 5000 games available already, with broadband multi player and dowloads for patches available too, sound familiar? it seems another attemp to deliver the PC in disguise as a Consol is in flow, take a look at the link and see it for yourselves:-

http://www.infiniumlabs.com/

Personally after reading about it I am unsure if it good or bad for the PC market, it is a windows based system and seems to offer benefits for indi developers through a demo and shareware scheme.

I thought at first it should not be allowed then I thought it may infact be a blessing for the decreasing sales or at least low sales of the majority of PC games, what it might bring is bugs galore into the games consol market which is pretty reasonable at present for being not too buggy compared to the PC. It may even steal the identity of the PC?

Anyway have a look and see what you think?

are you For or Against this new so called Games Consol?
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 02:50
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Woohaa! A console that plays PC games, that's what I always wanted =) I wonder if you can only play registered games from the net or if it's possible to download anything and play like with a PC. Sounds like it's gonna be restricted (age lock etc).

I'm totally for this console though. Would give me a chance to make games for a console with DBP =) And it would also mean that more games will be avalible sooner for PC (as little/no work is required to port games between this console and a PC).

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 03:18
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personally... i think this kind of console won't survive.
it has no true identity and i reckon that you will never see it come to pass, because its major selling point is the "broadband" connection - yet broadband is such a limited service right now.
Might not seem it but is ...
so this will only really do well in rich city areas, where other consoles are already paramounted as well as PC counterparts

we are seeing more and more consoles that are PC based -Dreamcast, X-Box and now this ... the X-Box is lasting and will last because it has superb games which already have a customer base. Add to this Microsoft are genius within the marketing area, quite frankly it would've been hard to have seen the X-Box just dieing with a whimper

that said, the GameCube is actually getting a bigger and bigger following because it is cheap with cheap games.

however unlike the PS2 and X-Box it is a pure games console this this ... which is another fatal flaw of this console. Whilst being appealing - for what it is, you would actually expect some extra Multi-Media capabilities.

when you look into this... you might be forgiven for thinking that this is a boost to PC gamers, however if you think about it longer - it will take away valued PC users in place of a STANDARD setup just for gaming.

This would actually hit the graphics, processor and such pretty bloody hard!
They're already struggling, because people can't afford to keep up - and thier new technologies are costing more and more in development... having people simply buying a console instead which negates the need to update??

That would force these parts of the industry to die off slowly, only the strongest being able to survive. So you can say bye-bye to intel, bye-bye to ATi and Videologic

Because a majority of idiots who update for no good reason than they don't feel thier system is upto new games will move to something that it doesn't matter ... because they can use all thier games on there!

But i still stick with i doubt this will last, mainly because of news from AMD about their latest development

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 04:18
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yeah, just heard the news! well, don't know much about consoles though! the last and only one i had was the snes back in '93 and that was it! right now, it's PC all the way. Well, i always welcome a new console, Nintendo has had enough time to eat, same goes to Sony, Microsoft should just chill out, how much more money do they want?

Yep, I think i'm gonna be for Phantom

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 24th Jan 2003 16:31
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I agree with Vegeta - Its a good idea if the PC was a standard format - but as it is it'll have compatiblity programs, and be impossible to market with its own identity, it'll die out, if it is ever released However in an ideal world I would totally support this as an idea, especially if it would run darkbasicpro games, it would give us a mainstream market Still waiting for some1 to program a DBPro emulator for PS2 lol

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rapscaLLion
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 00:31
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I don't know. Sounds phoney to me... but seriously, I would probably not get it. Pay per play? Oh hell no! I would much rather buy my game and play it whenever I want so it's a one time price.... ya

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 01:00
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If it is real, then it doesn't seem to be well thought out... There are no specs at all, or details of any games.

Not a good way of attracting potential customers...

By the sound of it, if it is real, then the December release is only for Americans...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
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Digital Awakening
AGK Developer
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 14:51
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Rap:
You can buy, subscribe (MMO for example) or rent games too. And all games will have demos avalible.

Toad:
This is still early, they are not attracting customers at the moment but developers and distributors.

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MrTAToad
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 15:23
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If thats the case, then the December release must be next year...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 16:46
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it probably is mainly just for the Americans (which is stupid as Japan is the largest console market available)

I kinda agree with Raps, that it does look like a wind up - no spec, 3D mock up of the console, no possible "only for" titles ... i mean at the end of the day i could get a mold for a console and old technology like say Athlon Processors, GeForce2Mx, 512Mb Ram, edit my own Windows Kernel to ONLY boot with a specilised function (well get an actual coder to do it for a hobby cause most do), and add a broadband modem.

Et voila you have this ... but there is no possible setup or possible price - i dunno that alone keeps me skeptical.

As i've noted there is wind of a new console using AMD and GeForce combined technology with the processor - perhaps only a rumour right now, but AMD making a console specific processor was enough to grab my interest. Even more so because of the new "hybrid" processors in the pipeline.

Althon is going to be bolster'd with 68K technology, and Pentiums are moving to Duatiums with ARM technology... so with the next gen of processors set to break bank balances and no doubt split the PC into two seperate formats - i'm more worried about that.

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crawlin
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Posted: 25th Jan 2003 20:28
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this happened before anyway, there was a company who were making a linux based console but they seemed to have vanished into nowhere.

from there site:
"We will be working with developers to develop a licensing model to distribute all of these titles electronically to our customer's."

seriuosly, i really don't see a game like UT2K3 being downloaded over a 512k connection with the average user. Most people just want to go in, slap the disk in the drive and play - not wait for ever to download the game. And that brings another point storage. Games are BIG and HDD are expensive if they want the space to allow users to download game electronically. This is very suspecious and think you will find the site will never be updated again...

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 01:39
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i don't know... over a broadband connection, say 256k which is relatively slow all you need really is the Executable - which normally would be 5Mb for UT2K3 so under a minute.

Then you have like a 20Mb level, so another minute or two - another min for it to process... and you have a game in the time it takes someone on a slow system to load a level in UT 2K3

when you look at it the time waiting isn't that large, and most probably will have a temporary HDD for storing your most paid games.

but even so, making it broadband only actually cuts thier customer base to a handful - because those who can afford Broadband are those who also can afford the expensive PCs ... they won't see the point in such a console as it offers nothing new

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Matto
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 01:58
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hmm, interesting replies.., I wreckon the downloading of the games idea would be for games with a freeware/shareware function, patches and updates, pay per play and MMOG games with the actual Phantom/PC games being available from the shops as are PC, ps2, xbox etc.. (might not need a Phantom branded game even??), we know the Phantom is windows based and is using PC games with apparently no required updating, I have come to this conclusion due to the fact of their claims for available games being so high eg: 5000+ ready to go.., so there should be no reason why they can't allow PC gamers to load in raw PC CDROM games they have already and "Phantom/PC only titles" it's like letting ps2 owners play ps1 games on the ps2 really as it definatly increases want for the ps2 that way!

As far as technology goes, I hate how the market is milked for every penny with ridiculous and often petty increases in hardware specs for not such small increments of £££.. on the final price!, there should be longer delays and larger jumps in technology updates to the hardware market in my oppinion, the whole PC genre would benefit from this as many people still won't touch this market because of the situation of PC Hardware outdating too quickly at the mo, it makes sence to largen the gaps in distribution of harware capability increments and definatly helps warrent the prices.

I am still not sure whether to like or loath this Consol.. I do think it would help people like us get smaller free/shareware games out though.. imagine being able to sell a game for £1.00 even, to a number of consol owners that frequent the cheap games weppage if it was released there would be more sales made than you could gain from around here I would think..., you could make a fair amount selling lots at a lower price and get your name known!! it definatly looks good at present for us I am sure of that..

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 04:17
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problem is not all PC games are 100% compatible with all software configurations ... and alot of companies will not want to panda to another market without it being worth thier while (because no doubt like most consoles the company will make thier major money from the SDK)

why should a company suchas Core Design, pay out say $250,000 (probably around what it'd cost)
just for a small market of say a few million people play games that they're done with developing and patching now?

also who is going to edit up the controls for each game ... PC games don't come with generic controls, and without a 101/105 keyboard how are you to emulate this?

how are games which don't have AutoRun or even have it but boot to a Splash Screen (ie LucasArt games) how are you suppose to start them up?

unfortunately althought a PC in console clothing saying you can use all the PC titles is a good idea, unless it is LITERALLY a PC in which case there is no room for real improvements and the technology that goes into it will be what it must have until the next generation - then quite frankly it seems more likely they'll have more teething problems than worth.

as the console is a 3D mockup with no details it seriously makes me doubt that its worth vesting too much hope that it'll see the light of day

especially BSkyB at the end of this year are releasing GameSky+ which will improve upon the current gameing abilities of the Sky Satillite box with one of the major consoles old technology, whos it will be Sega/Nintendo/Sony is still unsure ... but personally i feel that is far more likely to happen.

It'll even have Internet Broadband Access, extending on the current Open features.
ya know i'm going to miss not being in the UK when i have to go back home
There might not be like 6,000 channels, but those it has tend to have something interesting ... plus all the features Sky has - i dunno the US is a good few years behind Sky's technology, even the competitors here are.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Matto
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 00:19
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yes good points on the fact of controls.. I personnaly care neither here or there whether it comes out, I am more interested if people think it will be good or bad if it is succesful for the PC market and Indi devs for the games ceation in the free or shareware markets.. I do admit it is looking mighty like it is offering things it can't really back up or really shouldn't try and use!

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 08:32
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it would be good to have a console perhaps not with huge amounts of power, just for like the DarkBasic Community.

Ya know like an AlthonXP 1Ghz - 128Mb Ram - Raedon9700 or GeForce4 Ti w/TVout - gigabyte 768amd w/c-media 16bit EAX2 Surround - 4x DvD Rom

basically a PC in a box, but be specifically a cheapass PC setup and rearranged inside of a very small box - perhaps with an cutdown WinXP which specifically boots up to a memory card screen and autodetects when a game is inserted and runs a DBpro exe

i mean stupid but i'm sure if a few of the Basic developers got together and planned it properly we could have a single console specifically for running these Independant games - would increase sales of each of the products, would mean we all have the exact same setup to be working towards ... plus that standardisation that we'd all love to have (meaning that the games would be perfectly bug free)

nice dream eh

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Red general
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 13:48
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Thats a great Idea, but what about DB and DBPro would both be run? Still, I am very interested, and it sounds like a great idea. It would also standardise everything as you said which is a grat idea.
I wnat to knwo more
Red General

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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 15:41
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Yeah its a good idea and yes being basically a PC it would be compatible with both DBPro and DBClassic apps, cos it would just run exe files

However obvioulsy the chances of any major manufacturer producing such a system is unlikely, and public take-up would be laughable It would end up just us guys using it lol

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 17:25
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depends really ... if we got one or two really addictive titles, the public would buy the machine on the hype of the titles (lookit the XBox, and it would be simple to release something of equal power for cheaper)

as i said, if all of the current main developers of the basic languages put thier heads together i'm sure they could poke one companies into doing it ... i mean think about it - surely one of the larger development houses within the UK would have enough capital to start the idea, and have an exclusive platform for themselves

hehee ... man i think i'm dreaming whilst awake again, being up 3days straight does that too me sometimes

and HEY it REALLY snowing outside... honest to god white snow how cool!!

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InSiDeR
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 06:52
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Woohaa! A console that plays PC games, that's what I always wanted =)

yeah now we'll have 2 things that do the exact same thing, JOY!!!!!!!

lol

InSiDeR
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Red general
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 13:47
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If it was able to take C++ (horror of horrors!) programs then it would able to have more games. Also if you could actulllay have DBPro on the consol and then be able to program with it, it then could be put onto memory cards, somehow transfered to the pc, and then they could burn it onto CD and distribute it.
Might work - need to think about it

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Red general
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 18:56
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People first learned prgoramming from the old games they hacked into, spawning a generation of those who would know a certain language, making it more popular. If the console used Darkbasic Pro, and had a compiler for it then eventually darkbasic pro would become more popular, and more widly used. Does this make any sence to anyone else?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 21:24
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Well realistically it would be unlikely that DarkBasic Software could finance such a project (i mean they're not exactly rolling in it right now) ... that said it would be interesting to see.

I mean if you think about it, Blitz and 3D GameStudio would also want in on the action ... probably sparking off a Basic Developers Console Wars.

That would be surreal whilst at the same time being pretty cool
Personally if i made the console to be DarkBasic Pro only with Pro onboard, i'd make it so that you could only export to the Consoles CD which is in its own format incapable of being read on a PC.

This would get around the piracy issue... perhaps even using a Mini-CD format like the GameCube - i've not heard a single case of Piracy from the GameCube since release
i mean it might happen'd but i've not heard of it yet.

anyone wanna put thier heads together and actually come up with some viable setup for this imaginary console - i think this could be a cool excercise.

please note dbs guys, this is all imaginary we are in NO WAY suggesting you should try this ... just for our own amusement so please don't shoot it down

anyone who feels like designing what they'd want it to looks like, controller setups, etc - get to it, love to see what you guys come up with

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 22:22
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"i've not heard a single case of Piracy from the GameCube since release" Theres an external mini cd drive which can read them and produce images which can then be played back through emus - not quite the same but partway there

If i get some spare time I'll design a console Not saying u'll like it tho I have weird tastes lol

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Matto
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 03:01
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What about a golden Pyramid with a mask like figure inprinted on it ???

anyone?

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 03:32
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lol... would be pretty DarkBasic-ey wouldn't it
i'd prefer it to be a yellow pyramid thou

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