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Geek Culture / New game house opening in melbourne

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Wiggett
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 18:06
For any melbournites on the forums, me and a computing friend are thinking serious thoughts about opening a game developement company here in melb. I'm gonna look into the NEIS program and see abotu starting the new company up. My business partner has had managerial training, aswell as a few other business style schoolings, and used to be a hacker apaprently so we are both versed in teh ways of settign up a company. However we are discussing what kind of plan of action we will take, wether we get funding to pay a small team of coders a base wage while we work on a break into the market game, or wether we rely on the percentage method of programming. Currently we have 3 members with game design and some media creation skills. But anyone on these boards here in melbourne interested in joining a small team (only about 10) can list their details so we can get in contact with you when we get the company organized. We are mainly looking for some coedrs of average to good skills, (thinking of using the havoc engine), currently no certificate of programming is required, however expereince in coding will be required, as we wish to produce a game for the xbox console and/or pc in a relatively short time. The team will have an office and computer network set up, so this isn't just a hobby job, this is for people interested in a serious coding group. So if it's the career you are after list your email addresses and what you can do for the team and i will get into contact with you as soon as more comes to hand.

Dave J
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 19:05
I can work 2 days a week.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 19:10
sounds hot. you're doing your course yeah? cause we are lookin for programmers that want to get into the industry, but you don't need to have any qualification certificates. if you wanna help out while doing your course, you can give any free time you have to the group, we can offer you a share in the profits made by the game we will produce aswell as a mention in the credits and so forth. good thing to do along with your course so by the time you're finished with it you will have a game behind you to help put you in the industry. plus i wanna see if you really have orangy red hair like the dude in yoru sig.

Foxy
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 20:11
What language are you planning on coding this in?

What style of game is it going to be?

Something you should try is put up a list of little things in the forums that need to be done in your game later on in development and I'm sure people will pitch in to help. I'm a lousy coder so I can't really help, but good luck on it!

If I were you and you were me, then you'd be yourself 'cos you are me and I am you.
Kevin Picone
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 21:40
Having been through the NEIS program in 95, I guess I should throw my 2 cents worth into the ring.

The main issue you'll be confronted with under their model (assuming it's the same) is the program is not really designed to support for long term create-it, then sell-it businesses. Which without a saleable product today, is what a game developer basically. I.e. It's a long time from idea/design, creation to seeing a return. Let alone a profit, which makes them nervous about supporting.

We were involved in the NEIS program during the last part of development of Thesius XII and few other in-house projects (Reality / The War Of the Talesmen). In house at that time was 3 core guys (hi Benn & Lars). Anyway, the issue we couldn't resolve, in order to get green lighted, was the base line income problem. I.e. Between releases, just were does the week to week cash flow come from ?. Sooner or later your talking screen savers with apparent marketing guru's.. Imagine trying explain a engine demo to people whom had never seen a 3D game. Ahh, those were the days.

We didn't have a hope without self funding. As at the time, there was only a hand full of developers in oz, most talented was exported, but I didn't want to move, still don't. A tough environment, were virtually nobody in business would take the concept of setting a game development house seriously. Hence the brilliant idea of setting up shop on our own, on the recently departed Amiga in those days.. ..

Anyway to get back to my point (did i have one ?). I think if you can make it through to submission/evaluation process, make sure you present a model that is feasible on more than one level. While your core objective is game development, you might also devote a % of hours per week, doing general IT work, to pay the bills, etc.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic - Next Generation Basic (Release V1.05 Out Now)
Wiggett
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 21:49
thanks uw that was actually a helpful post. Yeah we are gonna talk to teh neis people and see what they say about it. we are also looking at other options. maybe even extendign the company into a small computer dev magazine to raise funds to pay for our work aswell. But this will all be worked out soon.

Durdge, i understand what you're saying, but we want to build a team first, then talk about what we can do, what our skills are etc, then base a game off of that. I was looking at maybe licensing the havok engine, (but from what i understand thats just a physics and not graphic engine), that we can look more deeper into. we all have heaps of ideas for a game, but this isnt a one off game team, this is a proper company, so whatever the game we are making isnt important. Anyway just wanted to post to tempt some intereste out of you guys, I will post later when I talk to the neis people.

Benjamin
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2005 22:17
Maybe you should take a look at the Irrlicht engine. Its fast, powerfull, free, and you don't have to pay royalties on what you sell using it.

http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/features.html


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Wiggett
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 05:47
thanks ben, that doesn't look to bad for a free engine. Might have a go of it myself. but have to go out today. will be back soon with more info again.

Jeku
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 08:47
What is the NEIS program? Is it a government new business loan or something like that? I wonder if we have something similar here....


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Kevin Picone
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 11:17
Jeku,

NEIS = New Enterprise Incentive Scheme. It's a government supported kick start for people wanting to start a new a business. It consists of a mentor team of business professionals. Who judge/select the participants. The goal is first write a business plan, then be green lighted. If successful, the government pay you a modest flat assistance wage for the entire first year. Which includes free hands on support from the mentor team also. A number of very successful local business were launched under this system.

Each course has a 3 or 4 months business education up front, which consists of enough grounding info to get people up to speed on every day tasks (product analysis ,marketing, accounting, tax etc etc). The main goal in that first part is to develop your business plan though. At the end of the study part, you make a presentation of your business plan. IF successful, you can start straight away. Or, you keep revising your plan/idea. There's like a 6 or 9 month cut off point though. Of course, your plan does have to suit their concept of a suitable business for the NEIS program.

Locally (in Victoria/Australia) oh how things have changed. Today there's all sorts of multi media grants, through to console developer (ps2/xbox etc) startup support. So It's not surprising that as result there's prolly 20/30 or more game/multi media developers in Melbourne today. Certainly over a 100 across oz.

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic - Next Generation Basic (Release V1.05 Out Now)
Dave J
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 11:31
Probably the reason you didn't have as much success in 95 was because the industry was yet to take off, you can just look at the way Australian Gaming and Game Development has started to boom in the past 5 or so years. As you said, we now have a large number of Game Dev companies situated in Australia, we have tertiary institutions dedicated to the industry (Academy of Interactive Entertainment), Film Victoria is starting to fund Game Development projects, and there's the recent start up of the Australian Game Development Conference (now entering its 4th year). The Industry is pulling in billions of dollars a year, and the government is definitely starting to take notice.


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Jeku
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 12:06
In the words of Napolean Dynamite--- "Lucky!"


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Van B
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 21:16
Lucky monkey! - Maybe you can get your government to have a word with Blair, get something like that in Britain too. Scotland produces the biggest games ever (GTA series) - you'd think the Rockstar North guys would get a little credit instead of the obligatory scorn from the media .

It's quite a tricky ball to juggle though huh? - do you offer a set wage or a percentage, if you offer a wage then you have to worry about funding all the time, and if you offer a percentage then you have to worry about keeping staff from abandoning the project. Maybe some additional sponsorship from an existing game or media company is something you can look into - like even if you could pay the staff a small amount each week then share the profits as well.


Van-B


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Wiggett
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Posted: 24th Feb 2005 21:50
yeah van tahts our main worry, which is why we are thinking of website and/or magazine system to earn a small income to help fund ourselves. specially if we are hiring out offices.

JeBuS
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 04:29
Just some constructive criticism:

I, myself, have never been able to take seriously business plans coming from people who aren't capable of using proper grammar and spelling in any and all proposals. One of the first things you're taught when you take business courses is how to type, format, and proofread all of your documents. The professors tell you that people will take you seriously if your information is presented in a clear and concise manner. I agree with that 100%. My suggestion to you is: get ahold of all of the legal documents you need to submit to your government; sit down and plot a business plan that includes, but is not limited to, monthly expenses (rent, wages, etc), monthly revenue sources, business start-up fees, legal fees; plot your future projects now, in order to have clear company goals.

Once you've got all that, you're half-way there. I'll give you more tips once you reach that stage. Good luck.


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indi
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 16:31
i did the neis course as well, thats how i started my sole trader graphic design business, and way after neis, im onto an advetising agency company level.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself
Wiggett
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Posted: 25th Feb 2005 20:24
cool indi, so the neis program worked out well then?

and jeebus, m4n I is 2 133+ 4 spellung, before you go criticising my intellect or whatever part it is that controls my typing in forums remember, its just a forum, this isnt a legal document im typing in this post, of course i can articulate my words much better on legal forms and business proposals, this was a casual post. And yes I do plan on going through a proper business plan after takign the neis program courses and figuring out what I need to complete in order to run a company legitimately.

Kevin Picone
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 00:06
Exeat,

Quote: " Probably the reason you didn't have as much success in 95 was because the industry was yet to take off, you can just look at the way Australian Gaming and Game Development has started to boom in the past 5 or so years ."


I'm well aware of how much things have progressed, but it wasn't that cut and dry for us. While ultimately, we could have moved down the NEIS road, it just wouldn't have been the UW we'd invested the previous year (or more) in creating. There was certainly commercial game development going on with Melbourne House (aka beam today), Sausage Software and few others were high profile around this time.

Anyway, a few months (or more) after the initial study section of the course, and with newly created business plan in hand, We did find several potential backer(s). It came down to weather i wanted to chance my hand with "Thesius XII" in the commercial sector with somebody else's money or not.

The issue was that by this time he Amiga was considered pretty much dead basically. But the decision pretty made itself, with us finally landing a publisher for T12. So that seemed the logical choice. But like pretty much everything we were involved in over the next year or so, things didn't quiet go to plan... Resulting in the death of uw#2 and I retired from programming (the first time, i'm sure it'll happen again )..

Kevin Picone
[url]www.underwaredesign.com[/url]
Play Nice! Play Basic - Next Generation Basic (Release V1.05 Out Now)
indi
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Posted: 26th Feb 2005 00:54
my neis course back in the day was a shocker and my mentor was really bad, but it helped

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself
NathanF
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 17:34
Im interested in this. I was just looking for a place that could hire me for some time (1 week to 1 month), and this could be my only chance now, because at this age, I gotta do my work experience, and not many people would want some kid on their team. I may be young (15.6), but I'm pretty good at coding. Been doing basically 2 years of DB, and then over half a year of C++, and am getting quite fast at it.
If you'd want to have me in for any short period of time, that'd be great. Or even better, if you want, I can work one day a week forever.
Just asking, anyway...


"Blame yourself, or God." - Delita
Neofish
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 17:43
I would say your better than pretty good at coding NathF

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NathanF
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 18:04
Thanks, glad someone appreciates my work


"Blame yourself, or God." - Delita
Neofish
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 18:07 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2005 05:57
Well I've seen some good quality work from you not sure what though


EDIT: I must have been drunk when I originally wrote this, *rewords*

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Wiggett
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 20:33
yeah nath im sure when we get up and runin we'll have a spot for you. I have seen some of your work and I'm down with hiring you. just gotta go over some more business plans. gotta wait till i get my pc up and runnign again (using a laptop, i mean really you work filming a big syn fm event for 12 hours only to go home and find your brother has stolen your monitor.)

NathanF
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Posted: 27th Feb 2005 21:59
Thanks, keep me updated on any changes.
When do you plan on starting it all? As in, the actual work.
A month or two? More?


"Blame yourself, or God." - Delita
mm0zct
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2005 00:14
sorry i'm in the wrong country (and still at school so couldn't work anyway) but i wish you the best of luck starting the business up.
side note: i saw an advert in the newspaper for new people wanted at Rockstar North in programming and modeling if anyone from around here (uk) is interested.

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Peter H
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2005 02:40
too bad i can't move to australia

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flibX0r
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2005 20:31
too bad i can't move to melbourne


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Mattman
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2005 20:39
Saw a whole lotta openings at blizzard lately. Wish I was in AU, could defanitly use the experience. Good luck with it Rob.

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Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 01:29
Not open to people overseas? I would definately be interested...

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Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 03:06
Don't be silly Andy, your over the other side of the world from him.


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Mnemonix
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 07:15
sshhh

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Wiggett
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 16:41
well it would be open to you, but having a team conencted by teh internet isn't the most productive of methods. Having an office where we all get together on a more regular basis however is a whole lot more productive. Other wise i would have opened it up to anyone on the forums. And come on flibster you know melbourne is better than tasmania,

Dave J
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 16:50
Flibble lives in WA.


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Wiggett
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2005 16:53
its all the same, damn yokels.

Mnemonix
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Posted: 4th Mar 2005 01:32 Edited at: 4th Mar 2005 01:35
Lol.

Well I am interested, if its a possibility then keep me informed. I can devote a large amount of time to it I guess.

I do have certificates in programming, which is what I like to think my strong point.

I also have certificates in basic modelling, animation as well as materials and rendering although they arent strictly game related.

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