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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Did anyone [b]make some MONEY [/b]making games in DB?

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ot0_m0t0
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 09:13
Did anyone make some MONEY making games in DB? I was yust wondering cos DB isnt free of charge so...so we should be abel to return our investment..no? If U did can you tell how much or at least can you make a living from it....so it would be your only incom?
Tnx
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 10:56
A few ppl (myself included) havegot sponsrs to release commercial projects, and I have seen quite a few shareware games, so yes.

However, I think that many people just want to make games for fun, and personally I don't think DBP is too expensive, considering the infinite games possibility

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 10:58
Sorry I should have added I make around £120 a week out of DBP currently- Not a healthy living (but I have other income ) but this might well rise soon if all goes well

Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 13:01
Well my old old old company (three companies in the past, lol ), i made overall about £400. Quite nice, out of one game. It was a racing game, and i managed to get sponsors for some 3d model areas of the game, like a big banner on the bridge (i asked people, and about 90% turned me down, i ended up with 2 sponsors, each giving me £50 ). The rest of the money was made up from buys, 32 buys @ £10 each. It was a pretty nice sum of money, for when i was 14, with only £2 pocket money / week lol.

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
UberTuba
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Location: Brittania
Posted: 26th Jan 2003 13:36
How did you go about getting those sponsors?
I have a freeware level viewer in the works and a bit of
cash would be nice.

Life is a terminal disease.
You never survive it.
Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 13:54
I should of mentioned they were BOTH hosting companies (the ones that accepted), and i asked in a thread on the http://www.freewebspace.net forums I didnt ask anyone directely, just other forums, asking people who had websites (like one was an online gaming site).

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 15:14
a about a year a go a man offered me a JOB for £15000 to a make a game for him in the old DB but i do`t do it.

--Dr 0--
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:06
Mad man! lol

Depending on how big your project is and what its going to do, appraoch sponsors with a professional letter and folder, outlining exactly what type of game its going to be, why they should advertise in it etc.

Some of my Football / Racing games have ads on banners, side boards etc. And some projects there's no ads, but supporters get a cut of the profit - kinda like unofficial shareholders

InSiDeR
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:42
Dr OcCuLt : the word F***ing idiot comes to mind...
lol

InSiDeR
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InSiDeR
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:43
sorry, let me explain myself...

thats an average persons yearly income and you gave it away...i stand by my remarks

InSiDeR
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Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 16:58
lol, but it does depend on the type of game. He may of wanted a virtual reality game or something lol. I'm only an NVQ trainee so i only get a quater of that a year

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
ot0_m0t0
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 19:16
Mbh i guess i started an interesting topic a? So you can make some money on DB games..hm...and that sponsor idea is really good stuff. So my next question is would an author of a few, lets say awreage DB games, get a yob in the GAME industry, in a studio like ..i don know Revoultion for instance. Did any of you got a youb in producing AA games?
I mean i do wanna make games in DB cos its fun and creative but i also gotta eat...and i do hope in future make the making of games my life calling...so i thought IF making DB games wont make me any money and wont get me in to the industry i might spend that time on learning Maya or 3ds Max.

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 19:54
Programming in DBP won't get you a job with an established publisher because they all use C/C++ . However you could use projects made in DBP to showcase your design or modelling skills, and get a job that way. But if you wanna professionally code for some1 else, then C/C++ is probably the way to go, however if you wanna work freelance or sell your own shareware products, DBPro will save you a lot of time, and C++ is prolly unnecessy

ot0_m0t0
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 20:20
Mm i guessed so. Ill see what can be done using db...depends how good ill be whit it. When you buy DB do you get some kind of book or simmilar that has all the commands listed and some tutorials in it?

Shock
AGK Developer
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Posted: 26th Jan 2003 21:06
with DB1 you get a book full of tutorials, and another book with even more tutorials in plus all the commands listed near the back.

In DBP you only get one book with all the commands listed in.

Theres are pleanty of tutorials out there on the net though.

...::::ShockForge::::...

Ambient Software coming soon!
Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 00:39
can i say why i do`t do the job.

1)this man had a big project in mind to way big for just DB to do.

2)yes he says his goto pay £15000 but he did not have the money just then so i wood get it at the end of the project.

3)he wood not singe a contrat to say he wood pay me.

4)he now sweet FA about makeing games.

i stand buy what i did!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 01:02
lol fair enough, sounds dodgy

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 01:07
"Did any of you get a your job in producing AA games?"
whats an AA game?

"so i thought IF making DB games wont make me any money and wont get me in to the industry i might spend that time on learning Maya or 3ds Max."

learning DarkBasic wouldn't get your foot into the door programming wise, other than actually give you the stepping stone of the "basics" of programming you need when you go onto learning more complex languages suchas C & C++.
However also spending your time learning 3D Packages won't give you that foot in the door.

Employeers over the recent months for the more well known Development Houses have been getting people like myself into the position of hiring ... for us you not only have to impress on your skills level, but also on your general attitude and knowlage.

I can see 100 portfolios with tonnes of stunning work, and throw then in the trash because quite frankly most are generic ripp off merchants.
We like to see innovative development, and stuff that you had to have learnt rather than be given a tutorial for.

And don't be afraid that if YOU can't skin a model of your can't model and can Skin, about teaming up with someone to produce work. Why?
Because this speak VOLUMES to prospective employeers. I means you can work in a team with atleast one person to a degree to get a project done. It also means that your have good communitcation and learning skills if the model appears to have been edited after mapping and such.

And quite frankly... those people who are "seemingly" multiskilled, are the worst people you will ever work with. Because they'll work terrible with others, very rarely work to a decent deadline, and also believe that they have better ideas for the project - not valuing the input of those around you is a surefire killer.

Believe me you can see ALOT of how a modeller works from the work he displays to you as his "best and brightest"

Also i believe those who set themselves time limits and show your the results no matter WHAT they have come up with also show you alot more about thier work and how they work than someone who spends 6months on making the perfect model which will visually wow us

i can go on forever with tips, but generally your out there to show your work on an everyday scale - not just the BEST of the BEST scale.
But i mean don't leave out what your capable of given time (that's just stupid)

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
ot0_m0t0
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 11:41
Oh i didnt metioned it but i do know c and c++. Im also familiar whit level design and Worldcraft(Hammer), VB and Acess and other mostly standard stuff. The thing is my priority is to get into the industry and get a real yob that pays money. I do hawe a few levels for CounterStrike to do, iw hawe designed like 10 cars for GTA3 that i still hawe to moddel...but it all takes time. Not to mention that for DB i hawe a complete Game design documet for my own game....THAT will take time to produce. And i realise that all this is great to be put in a portfolio but!!! Whot yob position will I be aplaying to??? My c/c++ isnt that great to be a game programer, lead programer...any serious programer, for my 3d models i used some free software, although the models are great i will need to know 3ds or Maya to work somewhere....Hehehe i could go for a Game designer but....thats whot ewery one onts...its not likes gona be hiering a GAME DESIGNER.
The thing is a have a ton of really (i belive) good desings and some of them finished but I DONT HAWE ANY REAL SKILLS that ican use (except worldcraft). Thats why i thought spending time learning the important suff was a smarter idea then pursing whit this all day workings on my projects.
Pls reply. Tnx

n3t3r453r
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 11:53
Ofcouse YES!!!!! Many users codes for them self, but there are also that guys who make games for money!!! And sponsores ain't needed! We (look at location) used to do all without any support
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 12:21
Eraser - Of course if our project is good enough, when its finished we can sell it for money The point in sponsors or investors is to give you money before the product is finished, to help you develop it and progress with the idea

Raven - Yes I agree with all your points The only thing that needs to be added is that DB or DBP can make you money, if you are to use them on your own or set up a dev team. But if you want to join an already established pro team, chances are you need to stick to the guidelines already laid out, by Raven (and others) pretty well here

"AA" game - um well the term triple A / AAA game is usually used at the beginning of console launches, meaning a game is of such quality that it can sell the console purely on the basis of the game. Xbox's first AAA game was Halo, PS2 users had to wait a while, their first AAA game was Gran Turismo 3... not sure what a AA game would be - not quite up to those dizzy heights, but still damned impressive for a single design unit? lol

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 12:41
well first m0t ... i'd work on your use on English before anything else.

Poor application of it tends to have you overlooked immediatly because you'll appear immature.
Secondly, the knowlage with C|C++ can't be like, you know it ... because I know C and C++ but i wouldn't say i know it even close to the degree that you require it to work within the "industry".

I have mentioned this before, that people that deversify in thier field of expertise are doomed. You may believe having 6million skills will give you better chances at a job, however this just isn't the case.
Design is something you will learn as a Junior with a company, and oftenly those who haven't been through the process do not understand. I feel that Rose and the others working on her game are just begining to realise this.

To be able to work within something like Worldcraft/Hammer Editor believe it or not IS NOT a marketable skill. However the possible design that you can aciheve within a program suchas that - which include recoding Entities and making ambient textures, with light placement. That is good to see what a world designer is capable of.
But that said in my 10years on the Quake Modification scene i've yet to be really impressed by many people who develop worlds within the editors.

I think 3 people who have had help from friends within the industry have developed levels to a great degree... but what you seem to forget is you have a set engine for the world, so YOU know the limits and even still the designer decides they know better and try to make some visually stunning world with billion of effects, that quite frankly show they're more into generally visually impressing the public than making a world that although at first glance isn't as amazing has more intricacies that whenever they play makes them think about the terrain.

Jedi Knight 2, Zelda's and Mario64/SunShines worlds are the BEST you could look at in terms of design.
And Oni's should have a mention for the pure realism placed within the workings of the later levels when the designer obviously changed.

The most important to world designers is placement ... the general look and feel is important - but more important is the atmosphere you create and working with the limits you have to create something fun to explore.
Not just pure mission object areas will add to the design.

I think before you move forward in deciding which path you wish to go down, Programming, 3D Artwork, World Designing - you should find out which you prefer and are best at.

Remember that these areas are ALSO cut into sections of thier own ... Programming firstly cuts into Application (using VB 6/.Net, C++ 6/.Net MFC & C#) and Games Development (using C, C++ 6/.Net, Assembly, Shader Assembly, DirectX and/or OpenGL) - then it is again cut into other sections focusing on the general resources.

Although it is important to have relatively good knowlage in certain areas, it is FAR MORE important to also have a specific skill that you're king on.

From what i would assertain from your posts, you'd be in your late teens (i could be wrong) but this is the impression your putting across. And personally i hate to work with people who arn't grown up enough, because they generally don't have the maturity to A) Handle the work and B) Understand how much they will be doing

don't think that if a company hire you that its like anything you hear where you're just there as a token head. That you'll be making the tea's and coffee's and slowly learn from them. The reality is you will be expected to work like a professional from day1 (atleast within the games industry) because you don't have the luxuary of time to slowly be eased into the job.

I know i've said in the past that having a college education isn't THE most important thing, however that being said - it is still important to have something there firstly for a base, especially in programming.
Spending several years on a Modification team is more preferably, however not to everyone in ALL countries.

The UK for example, they have the paradox that you require 2-3year within the industry before your allowed to join.
And what most people don't understand that the courses at uni count as this time within the industry. Because within the UK education for a job over-rides the skills you have (but not all the time).

In the US they don't have this luxary of being so picky because there would be more jobs than people who can afford the education at that level - for this reason generally the lapse it.

In Japan they have levels of companies, where the smallest of houses you'll be living on barely liveable wages. However it is require for the "next step" in the chain.

If i were you, i'd go back to school - take a course on English, Mathematics, Physics, Japanese, German & English plus a course doing what you want to move on to do later.

Some tough decisions, but until you have a specific "i know what i want" attitude ... you will always just be sitting at home practising wondering if anyone will want you. You may get low end jobs, but it is unlikely they will ever ammount to anything where you'll be comfortable.

If i were you... i'd do some serious thinking over the comming weeks to what it is you hope to achieve and become, because without that you'll be like my brother bouncing around jobs you hate.

DarkBasic isn't likely to be a viable language that you can take on professionally until there is a change in its development to allow for infinate expansion and a move from an engine with basic language front ... to a full language. However remember the ideals you learn from using such a product are the same in ALL graphics development.

Half of games development isn't just being able to develop nice things, but knowing an understanding the boundries set ... whilst also being able to push what you would've thought possible with what is available to you.

For example if you end up developing for a console, there is NO ROOM for upgrades. The technology there is ALL you're getting and you must make something to actually run within that.

As i've said sit down and think about what you want.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 12:52
lol... i've never heard the term before, but then there are alot of terms that have been made amoungst the magazines and fans.

for example "going gold" was used in magazines first, because i remember my dad mentioning that a game is never finished even after you've sent it to the publisher.
i've learn alot from that man

personally i'm getting sick of all of these terms, and they confuse the hell outta me. over hyped games are doomed not to do as well as the developers hope, because everyones expectations are so high - then when they finally see them boom! they're actually a pile of crap.
i was talking to a friend yesterday and he was like "Aww mand Two Towers is so awesome" and i know that its more personal preferance, but personally i hated the title.
It was an embarasment - that said though, it was never aimed at me was it.

What is pissing me off is that people are panning good games purely on the basis that they're not AS good looking as the top titles.
I noticed on Sci-Fi, one of those girls from Channel4 Bits (thank god they killed that purely aweful program) is now hosting her own games show.

And i'd of thought after a few years she might've caught an eye for actually reveiwing games properly ... but still handing out the same aweful reviews, not caring about aspects like gameplay but focusing purely on graphics (which she still seemed to be a lil blind on).

wonder what happened to CyberNet, that was my favourite reveiw program - not so much when that Jason Presley took over, but was still my favourite proggie like that.

ho hum

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
ot0_m0t0
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 18:17
WOW! In all my years spent on-line, on IRC, chats, forums...I newer ever got such a meningful and actualy incredably accurate response. You know what? If a ever actually acomplish something in games ind. ill put yor name on every "Thanks to:" list. And im 22....allmost 23 ;(
Im old man.....and i still dont know whot to do whit my life...
My english is great, but my written english sucks (not so much as this keyboard though). I know there are many yobs (proggraming, 3D etc.) and that they branch but...dam i like it all..i wanna do it all...and i cant cos theres no time for that. Quess thats why i cant decide.
And as for beeing "not grown up enough" that yust aint the truth. I used to work weeks on my stuff, sometimes untill 5 in the morning, and i knew i wont get any $ for it, AND then people would throw crap and my work.....so i did it again and again till it was better. So dont say i dont know what im in for. I know you can kiss your life goodby when you start making a game. (problem is i dont hawe a life).
The diversity IS the problem, I'w heard that before.
I dont kow.....is it too late to go back to school? hawe I alredy wasted the best years of my life?...maybe so....
Do you know that Vegeta is a product of Croatia? It is an addition for cooked meals....
ill go think now ad come back later

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 18:55
its a seasoning from a few parts of the world... kinda mixxed herb of somekind

i'm sorry but the way you use english does make you appear and seem young. I think you need to just sit back and REALLY question what you love to achieve more.
I mean what you get from outhere doing things at your own leisure is a pure taster of what you will get when your working pro.

Mainly because when your working on your own, you're not on any time schedual apart from the one you place. It won't ruin your livelyhood if you don't achieve something intime.
Anyone who tells you that it is too late to learn is a fool, because no matter what you do - even when your are professional its not because you know everything, as the industry is ever changing!
The only thing that is a bugger when you go backto school rather than stay on is within the UK and US atleast they subsidise your costs to an extent which makes it cheaper
however that doesn't look to hold true for much longer unfortunately.

Alot of hard decisions to make, but if you do make them remember you should develop that skill to the max to get to a similar level as people suchas myself.
You will then be able to afford to break free and then you can diversify all you like
(thought remember you can still be fired from your own company ::coughromerocough:: )

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 22:39
I think the term triple A originated in America at the time of the release of the first Madden game on Megadrive. It was the "triple A" title needed to draw customers away from Nintendos 8-bit NES, as the NewYorkTimes reported I believe, so it prolly spawned from that. Incidentally I guess the first AAA game for the Megadrive here was Sonic. I can't remember any1 actually wanting one b4 that, the original arcade ports - (Out run, SOR, G.Axe, Space Harrier et all) were hardly more impressive than the 8bit versions, yet another Sega launch line up rushed The 8 bit machines never really needed a triple A title, the market was so new anyway, every new NES title looked incredible in comparisson to Atari and Coleco I guess Mario 3 was the title to really push the system tho

"over hyped games are doomed not to do as well as the developers hope" - *Ahem* Shenmue *Ahem* Getaway *Ahem* Tombraider 5 *Ahem* cough cough Daikatana cough cough lol

"Do you know that Vegeta is a product of Croatia? It is an addition for cooked meals" lmao

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 23:47
HEY ... TR5 was good

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
stormtrooper
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 03:35
oTO_mOTO

Go back to school and learn all you can about it if thats what you want to do.

I'm going to be 43 in March and am considering some classes because I want to get some kind of solid programming knoweldge even if it is only one or two classes.

You have not even reached the best years of your life yet so go to school now while you can or the wife will come along and you will put it off, then a few kids will come along and you will put it off some more, then you will be like me driving a cement truck to feed the family and wishing you did it when you were younger and trying to do it before you get any older.

I'm not complaining about my wife and kids because I wouldn't trade them for anything. The job I hate but it pays good and Teamsters have good benifits. I just think of what I could have been doing if I would have gone to school and it makes it really hard to get up every day and go to work.

I spent 10 years in the military and had plenty of opportunities to get some edeucation but I was more interested in running around and partying. Even then I knew some day I wanted to learn programming but now I'm learning it on my own and having a hard at it and thinking about some classes when I could have it done many years ago and been enjoying my job now.

SO TAKE SOME ADVICE AND DO IT NOW OR YOU PROBABLY NEVER WILL!!!!

Scott Wolfe
Matto
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 04:28
oTO, I definatly suggest listening to these guys, if your thinking about it and are good or are capable of being good, then you should do it, if you can muster up the strength or courage to go back to school/college then do so, get a grant or something if the money is a problem, if you live in europe then approach a Council/college and ask if you can get a european grant to assist you, they hand out those as if there is no tomorrow!!

I hate to add to the I wish's, so I won't bore you more than to say I have some of those too, and at 29 I have to go back to college as soon as I can save up for it,(grants are less easy to get the older you are, and family ties do hold you back although being worth it ) and then learn what I should have to start with, anyway don't go wasting time like some of us, and good luck..


As far as the original question goes, I don't see any reason why DBPRO or even DB couldn't make some pocket or food money, I actually see these kinds of programs being the future of alot of games(I am saying future not present..), it's a matter of time before this kind of programming is seen as the norm for pushing out quick and easy titles, have you seen the cheep seats in the pc departments lately, 1 they sell loads, and 2, they're in abbunance because they sell loads, when looking though, how many games do you see there that are not able to be made in DB/DBPRO?? I bet 80% of those £5.00 or £10.00 titles are able to be made in DB/PRO especially the baddly made and unoriginal childrens titles.., at least they will be able to be made after the main nasty bugs are ironed.. it's a powerful toy we have here, and provides the means to create some half descent gear if you put yourself to work well, all this without too much learning and what learning you do is fun or at least interesting.

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 15:39
lol Sorry Raven, would you prefer if I retractewd that and changed it to TR3? That was MUCH worse, its just, ya know the 5th one annoyed me by still not being much of an improvement other than graphics. The level design in 3 was the worst tho 5 looked so much more interesting in the early press releases and previews

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 15:51
me worked hard on 5 ...

i never liked 3 - the improvements were mostly graphical, i mean they added crawling but to me atleast - it was probably THE most boring TR of the lot.
It also the only one i couldn't be bothered to complete.

i mean i joined not that long after 4 was started and the programmers were set on developing the engine better - but in the end remade it entirely.
it was an always will be the runt of the litter.

And though TR5 didn't nessiarily add a great deal, other than some well deserved graphics updates - like volumetrics which made some areas just breath taking, even with the 2,500 polygon scenes ... it also added a little more thought behind puzzles.

I spent hours battling with that Level Editor to give the users puzzles which required a little more than simple "gohere and do this"

the Von Croy world is actually an entire single level (although it sometimes doesn't look it)
And there are ALOT of secret areas, that if you go around will notice that some time had been taken to actually give some cool toys as it was built like an office

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
InSiDeR
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 18:03
Christ RV, you talk to much
lol

InSiDeR
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"...Yay i got one strap loose..."
Kangaroo2
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 21:19
I'm sorry Raven I didn't realise you were so heavily involved in it... Was it the PC Version you worked on presumably? I only ever played the PS1 version (where obviously the graphics couldn't be imporved so much) And to be honest I gave up on it because I was bored of the repetitive nature of the serie, so I probably didn't give it much of a chance to grow on me. Actually I just rented it for 3 night, played the first 2 levels and returned it

If the level really is better than 3 and 4 (4 was a improvedment, but felt unbalanced to me) Then I may well pick up a budget copy of TR5 on PC and play it through properly, with an open mind

I apologise, if I had known u had worked on the actual level design (I thought u wld have been more on the graphics/moedlling side) I wouldn't have been so harsh after not properly evaluating it.

However I can say that the design in 3 was unmitigated sh*te compared with the innovation of 1 and the challenge of 2

Shadow Robert
23
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 28th Jan 2003 22:43
lol... it took me 7hours to complete
and i only knew where everything was on the last Two Stories

because i did the Spear of Destiny (well 2 parts) and almost all of the VonCroy Experience.
(so you can see why i was a little piss'd that the new actions were taken out)

it was the first game i actually did more than junior style work
you really can't judge the game by the first levels because they're a little weak knee'd and yeah pretty much no innovation at all.

It gets alot harder alot quicker... one of my favourite sections of the whole game is when Lara is 16 again
You come to a gorge with 2 hell imps throwing thier poo at you ... on the other side there is a section which requires split section jumping (ala TR1 puzzles) and the key you need to proceed on a ledge which you can't really get to without jumping.

Also i think another favourite bit of mine is a section which took me bloody ages ... there is a guard facing the wall which you can kill if you shoot him in the face, but is in like this new "Terminator" armour with twin Railguns which are 1hit kills.
You have to sneak past him (cause he can hear you) and grab some cloreform and sneak up behind him and knock him out

its the little tweaks like that, and misleading puzzles which actually lead no where after you've tried to do it like 20times and relise its actually an empty room with something to kill you

theres another section with a Cyborg which you have to eletricute because you can't actually kill Cyborgs with normal weaponry - that is a sweet part

once you get through the boring initiation world which was ment to mimic TR1 (thats what chris told me anyways, i just think he was being lazy lmao)
it certainly does get more and more interesting.

The levels have alot of puzzles which have nothing to do with the story they just give you things to help you later

and yup i love to ramble on Insider - but its a different story when your actually sitting here, cause i love to be quiet for hours ... say something that cracks everyone up and then shutup for hours more.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
ot0_m0t0
23
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Joined: 17th Jan 2003
Location:
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 11:25
Well thanks for the suggestions everyone, Vegeta, stormtrooper and Matto... I gues ill do it, i will get more education. Yust hawe to decide whitch one...I told my parents that I hawe to choose (cos i realized that i wasnt THAT good in any of the fields), and they sead it is great...cos i hawe a choice!...Guess i hawe good parents, ha?
SVEET EVERYTHING! Vegeta i dont know you did level desing in TR! Whoa i hawe a friend thats totaly mad bout TR (it does look stupid to see a 23 old man running round the house in a TR T-shirt ) But i bet he would love to talk to you. Its nice to finnaly know someone that actually IS THERE and is DOING stuff, not to mentione that your advice is still the best i´w ever read.
http://www.podravka.hr/en/products/vegeta/index.html
Told you that Vegeta was from Croatia...IM FORM Croatia )

Shadow Robert
23
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 29th Jan 2003 23:52
hehee... ya i know its used alot in the asian community
and if you have a friend crazy about TR - right now he's at a distance, personally i'd prefer it to stay that way.

I'm sure i could grab ahold of my brother if he really wants to rave about TR to anyone cause he loves the attention.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 26th Sep 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 00:32
lol "right now he's at a distance, personally i'd prefer it to stay that way." - Yeah screaming fans are awful (trust me I bl**dy know) - especially if they are seriously underage girls or spoddy letchy men lmao

ot0_m0t0
23
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Joined: 17th Jan 2003
Location:
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 18:37
He aint THAT mad bout TR....he yust loves it bit too much I vouldnt know it they love Vegeta in Asia but just a note: CROATIA IS IN CENTRAL EUROPE! Yust to make that clear , its bit lover than Austria.

Shadow Robert
23
Years of Service
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Joined: 22nd Sep 2002
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 30th Jan 2003 19:35
i know where Croatia is
i'm just saying it very popular in Asia, Russia in particular

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!

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