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2D All the way! / Can I use 2 game Control pads at once in Dark Basic (Classic)

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mattyjy2k
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 16:11
I am trying to make a 2 player Pong clone and I want to use game pads e.g.(microsoft sidwinder pad) to control the Bats,at the moment one bat is controlled by a pad and the other bat is controlled by mouse,so it would be great if anybody could tell me how to get two pads to work at once.
thanks in advance
Mattyjy2k
Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 16:17
Wow - how many times do you need to post the same question?! The answer is no - there is no ability to read from more than 1 control device (joypad that is) at the same time. Read the section on input devices in the manual to see why. You could _try_ and use the "set control device" to swap between 2 devices in your main loop and read from one and then the other - but that's a pure guess and I've no idea if it'll work or not. Try it and see.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
mattyjy2k
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 16:43
Thanks I had to post so many times becuase it was driving me crazy trying to work it out and nobody seemed to know what i was going on about.I was trying to switch between 2 devices but I could not find a way to get it to work,looks like I will have to give up on that Idea.
do you Know if you can use two control devices at the same time in DB Pro?

Richard Davey
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 16:48
Nope - but try out my switching idea to see what happens first before ruling it out as impossible. Technically your main loop would just be:

set control device 1
read input from joystick

set control drive 2
read input from joystick

loop

See what happens?!

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
heartbone
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 16:58
I have suggested that DarkBASIC develop a PCI board and put the drivers into a DARKBASIC Pro advanced edition that
supports the new PCI board that has 2 joystick ports. The upgrade cost would be about $25 (board & patch). DBS could sell the board with a few demo programs as a stand alone for non programmers for about $20.

Then DarkBASIC programs could be developed that use the two equal joysticks.

Then DBS could advertise......
LET DarkBASIC turn your PC into a X-BOX.

They are missing a golden opportunity. Bill Gates would hate them.

I already have 2 programs that could use this.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Jan 2003 23:08
Surely 2 b like Xbox it would need 4 identical ports? Anyway this IS a good idea, but only if it was to become industry standard and used by more than just DB games. Tho personally I can't imagine 4 people sat around a PC playing, unless they had a working TV out and had it in their living room... and thats not gonna be the adverage user Now what would be more useful is for someone to write an EMULATOR for Xbox, PS2 or GC to allow them to play Games written in DB - now THAT would b awesome

Arrow
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 04:36
And illegal.

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This is my Belief!
...at least for now.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 15:21
Not if you got a liscense for using the bios' and releasing the games either officially or as a lisceneced 3rd party from the console manufacturers.

There is not any legal issue about playing PC games on consoles, especially not DBP only ones, because no PC manufacturer would specifically loose out on sales. What WOULD be illegal is playing Xbox (or PS2 or Gamecube) games on a PC - but thats the opposite of what I said! The reasons the manufacturers are against this is obvious -
1. It stops people buying their console
2. It bypasses the security settings of the console and therefore allows play of import and pirated software.

I see no reason DBS wouldn't want games made with DBP to be playable on as many mediums as possible, it would massively increase the appeal and mass market usage of the product.

Unfortunately the console I personally can imagine this being reliably possible with is Xbox, and the Xbox console is slipping fast in popularity takes. PS2 still outsells it 12 consoles to 1 in Europe and 17 consoles to 1 in Japan

Garfield1983
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 16:01
"PS2 still outsells it 12 consoles to 1 in Europe and 17 consoles to 1 in Japan:-( "

..And thats the way it should be
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 28th Jan 2003 22:06
In a way, I agree but...

PS2 Hardware is far, far, far below X-Box AND Gamecube, its outdated, and hardly capable. What Sony ARE good at tho is marketting, and therefore they have money so 3drd party developers are attracted...

Therefore the majority of games are released on PS2, so that makes it the console of choice if you are a mass market punter wanting the widest and cheapest range of games But imagine if the best PS2 games were released on Xbox or Gamecube... Mmmm Vicecity with no slowdown, blurrings, jerkyness, faster loading times, customisable soundtracks via your MP3 collection, four player modes without a multitap... it would rock! Won't happen tho

Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 01:19
Consider when PS2 was actually released - if you work on that scale you soon realise that the x-box should have been a lot more advanced than it actually was given the extra time they had. Hardware is only the beginning of the equation and just because you own the latest bag of tricks it doesn't mean you get the best games - xbox is surely a perfect example of this, wonderful (if chunky) hardware and mediocre to average games with only 1 shining example. Pretty poor show so far. PS2 on the other hand is full of quality examples, and with a 48 million installed user base it's no surprise why. Vice City rarely slows down, I have no idea what the "blurring" you're refering to is either (and trust me, I've invested hour upon hour upon hour of time into this game), there is no jerkiness and the loading is quite awesome considering the size of data it's dealing with. Your own 80's mp3s? whoopi-bloody-doo - that is not a good enough incentive in my eyes. And besides it totally neglects the rest of the quality titles out there - Metal Gear 2, Timesplitters, FFX, Ape Escape, SSX, Devil May Cry, Dynasty Warriors 3, Frequency, Rez, Gitaroo Man, Gran Turismo 3, the awesome Ico, Kingdom Hearts (which for all it's cuteness is a gorgeous game), Onimusha 2, Ratchet and Clank, Tekken Tag - good god, there are plenty of awesome games! Nothing even close on the x-box to rival this selection yet. GC will fair better but that's Nintendo for you.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it here - no Western console will ever win this war unless they get Eastern game designers on their side. They are in a league of their own when it comes to consoles.

When MS come out with the x-box 2 I know what I'll be waiting in line with (mmmm.. shiny new PS3.. oh yes!)

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 04:37
lmao... it all comes out here - the reason Rich has paid the forum lil attention

Vice City was released hehee

personally i think that Mircosoft were just looking for a way to corner a market that was very lucrative.
for Saying that the actual technology within the box is basically something you can buy from any good Computer Hardware store - it is interesting to see what can be achieved graphically.

however on the whole the latest batch of consoles and games has been a rather large disappointment.
the GameCube for example has awesome power behind it, and althought technically the XBox is superior - both the PS2 and GameCube run on specilised Processors which are capable of bigger and better things because the development languages are specifically written enhancements for these.

the PS2 with the EmotionEngine Processor
and the GC with the IBM Gecko (PowerPC) Processor
both of which running at almost half the speed but with greater power than the XBox.

the XBox soley relies upon the pure brute force of the specially designed GeForce4 GPU placed upon the experimental nPower2 Chipset with MPU

until recently Microsoft have been grabbing PC developers left right and center ... and now a console development team, which haven't quite lived upto expectations as of late

that said, ALOT of the recent titles released on ALL of the consoles have been soarly disappointing relying far to greatly upon the new console powers and graphics - leaving behind the fun ability to play.

this is why Vice City is such a good game because they didn't really try anything new - it is still GTA just with an extra aspect.

right now it is a pure battle between PS2 and XBox ... but as the GC seemingly is slumping into N64's shoes, the new titles that have been sitting on the development shelves certinaly look straight to turn that around.

however 2 recent releases which have been truely outstanding, ResidentEvil Zero and SuperMario Sunshine - both sticking true to thier origins

Gotta agree though, if a Card was created with the ability for upto 4 players - with perhaps memory card and force feedback features.
Would the DarkBasic Team be willing to program it into the engine?

Because if the potential customer base was there, with atleast 3-4 good titles in development ... Hmmm
i'm going to pose a question to someone else in the know, but it would be good if a possible Standard for the PC could be reached WOULD DBS add support?

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Arrow
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 08:52
That's It!!! That's what was wrong with Vice City. It doesn't have the lasting power as GTA3, because it [B]is[/B] GTA3 with a tune-up.

I agree that the X-Box isn't doning well. It take far more than graphics to make a great game. Rich, I agree completely with you on ICO. That game is one of the most beuitiful things I've seen in a long time. I don't know how they grab you're emotions like that. That game is a true classic.

Any way, back on topic, there really is no way to use to control pads? Not even if they are different types(like a Sidewinder and a Gamepad Pro)? I think we've found a new dll for Tatoad.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 11:27
I disagree - to me Vice City is what GTA3 should have been, the next installment will see where they can truly take the game. It has superb lasting power - it's the only game I've got (on the PS2) I can just pick up and play and go mad for half an hour and just try something new without even having to progress in a mission. Name me another title that allows that so freely?

Also to say that none of the super-consoles have decent games is perhaps highlighting a different problem - one of perception. You see I'm firmly of the blief that people do actually grow-out of games and don't like that fact! Even so it doesn't stop it happening (wether they realise it or not). When it gets to the point that all the new games fail to interest you or you're fed-up seeing the same thing over and over again, take a step back and analyse why this is - is it really because these games are so bad? No probably not - production values today are far far higher than they ever used to be and you get a lot more game for your money - but do they INTEREST you? That's a matter of personal taste.

I'm not denying there isn't dross out there - of course there is. But to say all the games are rubbish is basically avoiding the issue - they're not for you anymore. Please, prove me wrong

It's the same reason why we all get fed-up of films are some point or another - why so many people were dissappointed with the latest Star Wars movies for example. Because you're just not feeling like you're seeing anything new on the screen (big, or small), that you can predict it all - it doesn't create much, if any, form of emotion. It doesn't perk your imagination.

For me that is the biggest problem I have with lots of the games released today - they just don't "do" anything for me, but there are notable exceptions to this rule. You know I actually get more enthused playing something like the brilliant Zwischenzug DB game than Desert Storm on the PS2 because I know the hard work and graft that must have gone into it - I appreciate it on a far more fundamental level.

Anyway Arrow - to answer your post - I have a PS2 dual-shock joypad plugged into a USB cable into my PC and I can use it perfectly from DB/DBPro using the standard joystick commands. I also have an MS Sidewinder and again that works flawlessly.

As for using more than 1 pad in your DB games - no, that's not possible at the moment.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 12:04
Don't get me wrong - I love Vice City its a cool game. But to say there is no slow down and screen blur (I am aware there is an option to turn it off) is playing it through slightly Rose-tinted glasses The loading times are admittedly fine considering the hardware its running on, but to load everything from a 4 speed (if memory severs) CD-ROM to RAM is gonna be slooooow. If Vice City is ever released on PC or Xbox the harddisk access will speed it up alot. Another advantage of the HDD is you don't have to shell out an extra £30 for a memory card. I have always thought £30 was a ridiculous price considering the basic technology, and also unfair considering its basically a necessity to own one

I'm not on here trying to say people should buy and Xbox - far from it. To say there is only one true 'must buy' game for it is true! However I suspect you're refering to Halo... IMHO games I play on my PC are superior / more varied, like Batlefield 1942, UT2003, Americas Army, MOH, and the forthcoming DoomIII, Unreal 2, Quake 4 et al. The only genuine 'must buy' on the system is JetSetRadioFuture - that is awesome! Fun to play, truly original (if you consider most ppl won't have played the original) , great atmosphere, smooth learning curve, and visuals and sonics like no other

I own all 3 major consoles and I agree that if I was to sell 2 and only keep 1 it would be my trusty PS2. By technology standards its slipping, but its the only current format ever likely to feature such a wide range of games and third party developers.

Just my 2 cents - Now... who's up 4 developing a DBP emu 4 PS2?

Kangaroo2
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 12:10
Oops lol sorry I should have added that if you turn off the screen blur in the options it simply high-lights the less than happy framerate In GTA3 the developers claimed the bluring and lack of frames was an "effect" to give you the preception your character is drunk - Ummm then why wasn't it present in the PC version?

Ok just so you won't get mad, PS2 games I would not want to live without...
GTA:Vice City / GTA3 (both have merits) / Virtua Fighter 4 / Final Fantasy X / SSX Tricky / Gran Turismo 3 / Parrappa 2 / Devil May Cry / SNK Vs Capcom 2 / Code Veronica (although the DC version is a better PAL convo)

Richard Davey
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Posted: 29th Jan 2003 17:28
In my mind the blurring is simply there to enhance the effect of the climate changes - for example you get very very little blur on a standard day, get the sun out and things shine a bit more and get rainy and night time and lights blur all over the place. Slow down is not massively noticeable either _until_ you get into a boat and start seeing the sheer scope of the city in all it's full glory.

The load times are fine (and no, it's not a 4xCD-Rom - it plays DVD movies for a start ) - you have one load at the start and then remarkably brief loads when you hit new areas, frankly I'm amazed there wasn't more loading especially if you compare it to the likes of MOH on PS2! Even SSX takes longer to load the initial game. No-one owns a PS2 without a memory card in reality (no serious gamer anyway) so really that's not a bonus for the HDD version. The only advantage of Vice City on the PC would be a higher resolution and (hopefully) faster load times - that's it. But even then I'd not be able to use my dual shock to control everything that was going on and playing that game on the keyboard just wouldn't be right.

(Now MOH on the other hand was frustrating with the pad! Yet Timesplitters was devine.. who knows why games vary so much).

I just game back from shopping and bought myself Metroid Fusion for the GBA - can't wait to play it later

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 01:29
Aww Rich I'm dissapointed lol - an esteemed man such as yourself should know CD-ROM and DVD-ROM read speeds are different - A DVD drive will read CD-ROM far faster than DVD-ROM, however DVD Video reads at a constant 4x as standard. The PS2 CD-ROM reading capacity is 16x and DVD-ROM eg most large games, Inc Vice City read at either 8x or 4x - If memory serves its 4x but I'd have to check.

"frankly I'm amazed there wasn't more loading" - me too, as I said its not bas at all, they push the hardware very well! My point is just that it would be faster on a HDD, not that it NEEDs to be It would just b a nice bonus

"No-one owns a PS2 without a memory card in reality" - EXACTLY so it means in reality the price of a PS2 isn't the £179.99 rrp, its £209.99, making it seriously more expensive than Xbox, which is £169.99 with two games... (Or £199.99 with 4 games - I think Microsoft are getting desperate lol)

"I'd not be able to use my dual shock to control everything that was going on" / "I have a PS2 dual-shock joypad plugged into a USB cable into my PC" surely those two quotes don't work together? Or is there some functionality lost in USB? Sorry I've never tried it and would b interested

About pad control - "Timesplitters was devine" - So was Goldeneye Partially the same dev. team

And about Metroid - Its great as you will have by now found out! And Metroid Prime on GC is also surprisingly true to the series

Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 02:12
I saw an X-Box with 4 games (3 of which I didn't want, heh) in GAME today for £199 - I was quite pleased to see the overall cost of the rest of the software was pretty good. They had 2 games for £30 deal going on - not on the decent titles, but even so. To be honest I'm not bothered between the two - nearly all publishers (bar Nintendo) will release their titles on PS2 and X-Box at some stage. There are exceptions, but for the most part it's true, so it's getting more about which games you want rather than how you're going to play them.

"Surely those two quotes don't work together?" - they do because I bet I'm one of a few small number of people who actually have a PS2 controller attached to my PC! If it was more common then GTA3 PC would have supported it.

I have a PS/PS2 adapter dongle for my PC. You plug the dual-shock into it and a USB cable into your PC and you can use it for any PC game that supports joysticks (including force feedback) as Windows just see's it as a normal joystick. Bloody wonderful little box and cheap too - you can find them on most hardcore gaming shop sites. There's no functionality lost.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
Arrow
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 02:53
Ok, first off I love Vice City. It is everything thing in GTA3 and then some. Becuase of it I can never go back (those motercycles, ). However, I'm a hardcore gamer, and I play for a loooooong time. The day I got Zelda 64 (preordered, gold cartage, I rub it in my friends face ) I played itfor 14 hrs straight. No food, no bathroom breaks just non-stop play. When I bought GTA3, I played it for 5 days striaghtr before I played another game. It took me about a month to beat it ( with the help of codes, but I later beat it without even the wantedcode used). With Vice City I played it for two days and beat it and the end of the second. That kinda killed it for me, I like games that so long to beat, you can restart the second the credits end and it'll be fresh. So far Front Misson 3 and Xenogears do this for me the best (God, I can't wait for Xenosage!!!). That is my only beef with Vice City.

About the Next Generation Console Wars ( sondes like a secret oganiozation, NGCW), I think the X-box needs to rethink it startigy. The whole online gaming thing (whinh I don't like for some reason that even excapes me) seams to be the next front, and by only going broadband, it's severly limiting itself. I can't even get broadband out where I am. I think Nintendo needs to get into it a little more than it is, and the PS2 seams to have the best idea.

As for the PS2 controlor, I've seen onces made for PCs that run about $20 (I'm gonna have to get one soon, my other pad can't seem to figure out the difference in up and up/left). Rich, do you know if the mutliple joystick thing will be worked out in the next couple of pacthes or are we going to have to make our own dll's? (I like prackets )

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 08:19
from my perspective it isn't the fact that the new games are boring me because i'm bored with games.

it's because really they're just being rushed out, being designed specifically with graphics rather than gameplay in mind and giving you 3billion titles of the exact same crap from companies that have no idea what the heck thier doing they're just trying to get your hard earnt cash.

Personally i think the GameCube has the LARGEST selection of titles which i play the most.
I mean i have a PS2 and a few games, but i don't really touch it much - apart from the occasional game of GTA3, perhaps from WWE:Shut your mouth when i have some mates over.
I've had the other games but most have been not alot of fun to play. If something isn't fun i just return it.

I wasn't really impressed with Tekken Tag Tournament because i dunno - was suppose to be some great evolution on the original, and kinda made it so that if you don't try to kill off your controller you hardly do any damage (bloody analogue buttons) thats kinda why i prefer the Playstation version. For me the PS2 was really a big waste of money, and i kinda was thankful i got one imported from Japan for $120.
(as for the DvD-CD point, the PS2 has a 4xDvD 24xCDRom)

i dunno... i want an XBox because although there arn't many games that seem good for it but i've played some fun and interesting titles for it.

kinda weird though, the machine with the least amount of games available is the one that i actually think has the best selection.

i mean Mario Sunshine, Resi Evil Zero, Star Wars Bounty Hunter, Starfox: Dino Planet, Super Smash Brothers Melee,Pokémon: Master Leauge ...and those are just the ones i playing regularly

still have all the old consoles too i like to play on alot too ... suchas my N64 (with N64DD), PSone, SNES, MegaDrive, NES
still enjoy the games on them alot still so i'm hardly bored of games hehee

As for the connector leads, i have one which allows PS1/PS1/N64/DC controllers the makers promise a GC one within the next 2months which i'll love.

I love using the N64 one for all my games like TR or something, but really its not something available to the everyday users.
The only place in Watford i've seen that sells them is GameStation, and not alot of people usually go in there becuase its caters more for users of consoles not used anymore where i tend to get most of my N64 software from cause they import from everywhere.

I think if there was something specifically made for the PC with 4 Controller ports for controllers which not only Force FeedBack but also memory saving abilities ... that would be far better.
I mean think about it, how many games do you know which actually support DualShock?
DarkBasic supports it, but not many goes out there and not enough users have these to actually be of any good.
And the PC controllers are pathetic when it comes to the FFB things

i'm actually looking into the viability or just hvaing a card made to cater for N64 controllers ... because as they're now a "dead" format so to speak, they're pretty cheap.

i dunno... i just think if we could get a standard controller in place for DarkBasic atleast - that'd be good enough.
I think probably i'd like to try to introduce the N64 controller with a controller card into play, because the button setup is pretty good ... analogue abilities.
Plus the Memory card available - seems like a sensible choice

But then the Playstation controllers have more buttons, and the rumble feature built in

really would love to design my own controller
pitty i doubt if i did it'd ever be able to become reality

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 14:59
Ok I'm not but kissing but I agree with everything Raven just said lol

Rich - I have heard of those thingies for PS2 pads through USB and I quite want one Surely if it reads like a normal joypad / stick tho GTA3 on PC does support it? Anyway, you're right that most third party games released on Xbox are also released on PS2, and unfortunately, the XBox versions aren't usually any better, because the game is developped for PS2 first and then ported over quickly

The standard 4 game pack I was talking about includes Halo, Splinter Cell, JetSetRadioFuture and SegaGT - all decent games, 3 of which are very good, SegaGT being the runt of the pack. Its good but doesn't compare well with GT3. Still - at £199.99 thats a bargain BUT I still think Xbox has a lot of work to do if its ever going to be serious competition for sony - and Nintendo and Microsoft HAVE to release their NEW upcoming consoles at the same time as PS3, otherwise gamers will just buy the sony system and ignore the straglers - as they have this time round, and throughout the majority of gaming history, post 1987

If you really want a nice controller - the Gamecube one seems to fit perfectly in my hands The dual shock has always been a good solid design though.

Killer Sponge
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 16:40
Tho wasn't the ps1 pad and rip-off of the snes controller and the dual shock just a slightly changed design, Because to me, that looks like sony took something off nintendo, I suppose tho there's no copyright on Control Pads or else Nintendo, bieng the money hungry business it is, (or was) would have sued sony in to the ground.. either that or nintendo didnt see sony as a threat when the ps came out. umm, I dunno.

Arrow
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 19:43
Accully, sony wanted to team up with Nintendo to make a system but Nintendo rejected the idea and sony went on it's own. Nintendo has always made outstanding controlers. Turok has spoided me so I can only play FPS with that control set up. The Gamecube controler took some getting used to just because me first game for it was Super Smash Bros. Melee, and I had mastered the N64 veresion (fav chars? N64 - Picachu, don't laugh; GC - Marth). As for ripping Nintendo off, Sony copied the forse feedback idea, but the controler is too different. Speeking of which, the X-box has got to have the worst controler ever (dubbed the hanburger). One last thing, the original topic, what has it got to do with 2D games?

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 30th Jan 2003 23:00
"to me, that looks like sony took something off nintendo"
- lol you don't know how right you are! The Playstation was originally a CD upgrade for the SNES made by Sony and Nintendo together to rival the Sega Mega CD. When the Mega CD Failed, Nintendo gave up on the idea, so Sony took the design away, then built Playstation. Nintendo have filed several lawsuits against Sony saying various parts of Playstation (including the NAME!) belong to them - but so far they have lost them all

"X-box has got to have the worst controler ever" - Yes its ugly - but the pads for CD-i & Jaguar come in first place imho lol

"the original topic, what has it got to do with 2D games?"
- I refer you to his 1st post - "I am trying to make a 2 player Pong clone" You don't get much more 2d than the daddy of games

The PS joypad takes the two circles and retangle top shape of the SNES pad, plus the idea of shoulder buttons, 4 buttons and the start and select. However it adds enough to the mixture (double shoulder buttons, hand horns, and eventually the two sticks, L3/R3 and the built in rumble. The only way Nintendo could have sued Sony for the pad deigned would have been if Sony had taken their D-Pad or Coloured buttons - their only patents.

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 01:03
personally i hate all of the D-Pad on any other controler than nintendo's ... i mean the rest have made valiant efforts over the years - but Nintendo's design for it is just the daddy really isn't
I mean try to play SF2 Alpha on the SNES then on the Playstation ... theres no doubt in my mind which is better.

The playstation controller was really the evolution of the SNES pad wasn't it ... but i dunno it doesn't play as well as either the Sega Saturns, CD32 or N64's

Nintendo's GameCube is actually quite technologically superior to both consoles and you're not likely to see another offering from Nintendo until 2005-2006

The Playstation3 or StarCube is really, i dunno as far as console technology goes i really don't see it standing a chance.

I mean the X-Box2 is currently on the drawing boards again set to take current highend PC technology and use it, with a GeForce FX evolution GPU set to be at its core - i dunno really its gonna have alot of power.

Personally i think the console wars aren't actually quite what everyone thought this time around. It was expected there would be a clear leader (e.g. Sony Playstation2) however although the PS2 has done well, the X-Box is also finally seeing Microsoft returns on thier $22biln investment, and the GameCube is really just being tested.

The XBox is generically PC technology - so was a set platform, the Playstation2 was an evolution platform meaning developers just had to learn the updates.

The Cube is completely new teritory and i think like the N64 the games are going to truely push the limits of that technology beyond what we expect it to.

i mean i know i'm a dead set Nintendo fan and have been since day one so a lil bias'ness here but - still believe that Nintendo have got a little gem there.
However the N64DD was a SERIOUS upgrade which if it'd come out state and brit sides - would've just given the N64 something to shout and scream about.

The machines gives almost double the power (combined with the 4Mb upgrade card) is just unbelieveable.
Add this with the CDRom which SHOULD have had more games ported to it - Sony would've been given a run for thier money, i mean even thought the console is Assembly based, going from a 32Mb Cartridge to a 8x 640Mb CDRom, can you imagine the games they could've released?

And those DataDiscs were also pretty awesome peices of it.
Should see the Pokémon setup, you first have 1 Cartidge thats the actual game + you have the main DataDisc which have to work in sync.
You can place you GB cartridge into the DD and slot that in... just to top it all off you could the plugin Pokémon Stadium for some extra features

Plus what makes the whole package wow me is the fact that later Pokémons were catered for, so you can also plugin Gold/Silver/Crystal and plugin Stadium2 ... and et voila you have the extra monsters and attacks.

All it did was take the 2D world and make it 3D and for £70 would've been a little pricey, but still its something that still makes me amazed they got such technology working in sync like that.
And the worlds are like walking about Zelda on the N64 - very beautifully developed.

Man i wish they'd released generally ... i think the new one "Master Quest" or something is going to be quite outstanding to. Built along the same lines.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 01:31
The 64DD had massive potential and yes I loved seein my well loved and raised Pokemon in full 3d, the crossover technology was so well implemented

Totally agree that the Nintendo D Pad is faultless - why else would the design remain unchanged since 1984? However u mentioned StreetFighter Raven - Get a PS arcade stick Only way to go 4 fighters, and there are some great, robust and reasonable models out there

The recent 2d Capcom fighters on PS2 have been pretty good conversions - although obviously you can download CPS1 & 2 games for Mame for a totally accuracte experience Or if you insist on staying legal, get a Japanese Dreamcast or Saturn with extra 4mb cart - Awesome conversions

On the subject of Next Gen consoles, I hope they stick where they are for the minute - too many consoles flood the market. Remember the MegaCD, 3DO, CDi, CD32, Jaguar, Virtual Boy, 32X (and more!) situation not that many years ago? ALL of them dissapeared off the market whilst the Megadrive and SNES were still having new games released for them! It was ridiculous

Personally I loved it in the early 90s where the Megadrive, Snes, Master System, NES, Amiga and Commodore 64 all existed happily together (CPC, Spectrum and even ST had kinda died tho) - but those days are way in the past, as they all catered to different markets. By truly bringing gaming into the mainstream, Sony has unwittingly killed off any idea of strong competition... I'm sure no1 invisioned that at the time - CVG magazine said Sony's console was "doomed to failure when compared to stronger systems in the form of Sega's 32X and Atari's mighty Jaguar" (Admittedly this was comenting on a very early Sony announcement, before Saturn was unveiled to an unwitting public who'd just spent £200 on a 32X only to have it branded obsolete within 6months ) lol it was so funny to read how Atari would win the war with their "superior 64bit technology" and that Sega's 32X would "Beat Sony's system loading times, thus allowing more polygons and better textures" *Ahem* - And I wonder why people laugh when I say I read it...

Shadow Robert
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Posted: 31st Jan 2003 23:16
lol i never was a fan of CVG.. they're reveiws have always been a bit questionable - just like GamesMasters were.
PC Format (pc evolution of Amiga Format) and PCGamer ( which was another Amiga mag called CU which jumped the boat) are probably the most unbiased reveiwers about
And they're realistic about technology.

However to be honest, although i'd never of said that Sega's 32x or Atari's Jaguar were "SOOOooo" much better, i never thought that the Sony Playstation was going to actually stand upto the Saturn but also defeat it quite as badly as it did.
I thought it was going to be another case of Sega vs Nintendo ... to have both of the biggest players in the field reduced to play back fiddle - i don't think even Sony saw that outcome!

If the PS2 was all new technology with Zero back compatability i think that it wouldn't be doing AS well as it is now. Because that is the main reason people here and stateside forked out $300 & $400 for this new hardware.

Alot of peeps tell me that "arcade joysticks are the way to play these games" ... and i do remember playing street fighter 2 in the arcades and also on my SNES with eh arcade controller. Can tell you now its the only peice of snes equippment gathering dust.

I've always disliked those kinds of sticks for fighting games... the N64's 3D Stick is quick good
But still prefer the D-Pad

Personally i think that Sony are trying to push the Emotion Engine technology the wrong way, because quite frankly i don't think the technology is much cop.
It's good but compaired to the power yet to be seen from a fully clue'd up GameCube development team, or an XBox team who know the technology inside and out (remember the GeForce4 is relatively new technology even compaired to the Playstation2) ... as the PS2 is really an evolution than a new console in its own right, its simple enough to see that developers are more understanding to abilities.

Personally hope the Big N - big players are going to start making some truely remarkable titles ... Tomb Raider will certinaly bolster the PS2 come March, but i'm wondering what will happen with the GameCube version

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 1st Feb 2003 15:40
If you've got DarkMatter, you should be able to use my function mapper to get input from up to 16 controllers - keyboard/mouse and joypads - which may help.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
ConsoleBoy164
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2003 20:22
Everybody should really thank nintendo as if it wasnt for them, then the Ps1, let alone the ps2 would NOT EXIST!
The joint project mentioned between ninty and sony was a CD Add on for the snes (Super CD to be exact!) it was going to be about the power of the Ps1, using the snes pads but you still required the snes. (ever notice the exp port on your snes??) Sony were asking for too much of the deal (eg more money than nintendo were willing to part with or something like that??!) the project was cancelled, but sony developed it into the ps1. So if sony didnt even bother with ninty in the first place, its quite likely that ther ewould be no PlayStation. Ha, as for me you all suck with consoles. all 3 current consoles. Grab this Ive got 16 consoles ranging from Atari To Gamecube.
Speaking of joypad dongles or whatever they are. A GC to PC would Be amazing, im considering purchasing an N64 to PC. Concerning pads, the n64 pad is better than PS2/Xb, consider that the GC pad was being researched befor the n64 was out. then its obvious that the GC pad is tops.
But the best pad has to be a classic NES pad.

16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!
heartbone
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Posted: 24th Feb 2003 04:43
I don't care what the best pad is.
Make the PCI board accept the 5 most popular formats.
Sell a universal joystick connector adapttor or make them seperately.
I don't care.

But someone must address this issue of no multiple joysticks.

Let us start with 4 standard PC joysticks/joypad support
and expand from there.

THERE IS A REAL OPPORTUNITY FOR GAMING PROGRESS WITH A TRUE STANDARD BEING ESTABLISHED HERE IF DARK BASIC SOFTWARE LIMITED WILL SUPPORT THE HARDWARE WITH DARK BASIC. THE OTHERS WILL FOLLOW.

The more you see, the more you know.
The more you know, the more you see.
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 27th Feb 2003 02:57
Console boy "16 Consoles and 200+ Games. Thats some addiction!" - Bwa ha ha ha ha I have over 50 different consoles, as well as 19 Arcade units and well over 3000 Disks/Cartridges/Cassettes and I'm still on the look out for more. Anyone got a boxed European Supervision with CrystBall they wanna sell? I lost mine

Heartbone - I agree with what you just said but please DON'T SHOUT UNLESS YOU ARE TELLING PEOPLE OFF!! lol

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
samjones@kangaroo2.com - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Arrow
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 03:12
I got 12 consoles, and 156 games. I got a Virtual Boy and a Saturn resently, plus I'm getting a Sumper Famicom in a week. I got the great rare games too. Final Fantasy on nes, FF 2 & 3,the Super Famicom FF 6 is on the way, Chrono Trigger, Tobal No. 1, Metriod, Bubble Bobble, the gold version of all Zelda games released, (snes and gameboy didn't get released as gold), Earthbound, Pitfall, Secret of Evermore, need I go on? To get a complete list check out my site. I don't buy the super rare ones simple becuase they didn't have that good of games. I buy them for use, not just for show.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Arrow
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 03:14
Super rare systems, I mean.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
AGamer
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Posted: 1st Mar 2003 18:34
Going back to the original question of two controlers what do you mean it's not possible next will it ever be possible

Is there any point in doing anything as our life is meaningless anyway
lcfcfan
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Posted: 10th Mar 2003 21:42
Pro evolution soccer is best ps2 game ever

Sweet
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 12th Mar 2003 16:27
its more than possible...
all you have to do is like jump between the joysticks connected as Rich said - just like you had to render the screen in alternate loops for multicameras.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
MrTAToad
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Posted: 16th Mar 2003 00:30
Or, as I said before you can use my FunctionMapper...
You need DX8.1 though...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
HZence
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Posted: 20th Mar 2003 03:07
"...no Western console will ever win this war unless they get Eastern game designers..."

This is why I hate being human. "Our culture is better than your culture!", Constant "American's are nothing but arrogant overweight rich people!" and "Our music is better than your music!" "We get better games!" vs. "We get better movies!"

LOL! You get my point.

I just hate the console wars altogether anyway. Nothin' beats PC for me.

Arrow
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Posted: 20th Mar 2003 07:02
Been watching Macross Plus lately?

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
Danmatsuma
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Posted: 20th Mar 2003 16:14
Yeah you wouldn't need to go all out and make a pci card if all you want is 2 analogue joy's, even qbasic could manage that and all standard joy interfaces (like on the back of your sound card) accept 2 x axis' and 2 y axis + 4 buttons.
Most of the modern joys/games use all of these for one device, but you can just buy a splitter which gives you two joy ins on that port. Like MR TAToad said all you need then is a .dll to read the analog joyport in the "old" way and for a pong game I don't see why that wouldn't be adequate.

Then again, I'm guessing here but I also think it'd be possible to do your pong game in dbc WITHOUT a .dll because as standard it will read up to 3 axis and 4 buttons.
For pong you really only need one axis for each paddle and so all you need is the splitter cable and some experimenting with which of the three axis' to read.

ZX Spectrum 48k Issue 3, Radio shack Tape drive, Rank arena 12" T.V. set.

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