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Geek Culture / Incompetent antipiracy thugs?

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MicroMan
21
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Joined: 19th Aug 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 22nd Mar 2005 23:50
I'm of the opinion that coders that bite the hand that feeds them and distribute pirated software should be dunked in various offal, but the latest tactics by the antipiracy agencies in Sweden leaves a lot to be desired.

In an effort to catch themselves some big pirate game they requested the aid of the police and the authorities to mount a raid against on of the bigger swedish ISPs (Bahnhof). Said and done, the ISP was raided at dawn and the employees were prevented from using their machines while the police and the authorities looked for compromising materials. And lo, a suspicious server was found. Bahnhof among other things rents out space to companies to house their servers, and to maintain them.

This particular server was brim full of movies and software, and the server was hauled in. However, here's where it gets confusing. The antipiracy bureau used an informant in the company, and they paid this informant, and they supplied the informant with technology - amongst other things a certain server that was hauled away during the raid. The antipiracy bureau supplied this informer and another of the employees in their pocket with movies and software to put on the server in order to catch themselves some big pirate game...

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
Required
19
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Joined: 25th Feb 2005
Location: Server Down
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 02:02
I hope, someday there will be a working Anti-Piracy system in place. I have not heard of Nintendo having games pirated.

The games are up on servers. From my understanding there are no working Emulators, and no means that can be used to copy them to a GameDisc.

I dislike people who steal software. In what way do they believe they are special not to pay Retail? I disagree with my brother on even trading back software we do not like.

Often it will be pointed out to me someone who is using software, like 3D Studio Max, or Maya. Someone who clearly can not afford it, asking for help with it. I see it really upsets a number of my family who use it, as each of them pay a lot of money for these products.

Makes me just so mad!

Osiris
20
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Joined: 6th Aug 2004
Location: Robbinsdale, MN
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 02:08
Half life 2 sotres all of its game files up on a server, I think thats a good one, but then it keeps alot of people with no, or 56kis internet connections.

Jeku
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 03:21
Quote: "I have not heard of Nintendo having games pirated. "


Pretty much every Nintendo system has been hacked, NGC included :p It's just not as easy as an Xbox.


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Benjamin
22
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 03:23
No system is ever unhackable.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Ian T
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: Around
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 03:26
Do

Not

Deal

With

Theives



So nice to know they're keeping us good honest fellows safe from thieves with these intelligent antipiracy methods isn't it

It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
Benjamin
22
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 03:28
Oh my god! DNDWT! It makes so much sense now!


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Avan Madisen
22
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Joined: 12th Sep 2002
Location: The Castle Anthrax
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 06:35
Gamecube has what I call 'the best anti-piracy attempt ever' because the console only takes small discs, as far as I know it is very difficult (if not impossible) to get rewritable discs that the GC can use!

I don't suffer from insanity:

I enjoy every minute of it!
Jeku
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21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 07:41
You don't need to make the discs to use piracted NGC games. I won't explain how here, but it's fairly easy with a connection to a PC and a copy of certain NGC games with backdoors.


--[GameBasic - Coming Soon]-- ^^^ banner generously designed by TheBigBabou
Benjamin
22
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 07:48
I remember when I put a GC disk in my computer, and it spat it back out.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Required
19
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Joined: 25th Feb 2005
Location: Server Down
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:12
Jeku have you ever actually done it though?
my brother knows full well what happened to my cube when I attempted to experiment with the so-called 'methods' for getting around the protection system.

There aren't certain games, there is ONE game.. well technically it's two but it's the same bloody game Phantasy Star Online 1 & 2.

For some reason only known to the developers they not only have one of the most insecure network code known to man, but they also provide any external server access to sensitive areas of the system.

So in order to pirate in the first place you require one of those two games, that's £35 right there. Then you need a lead that will connect the GameCube to the PC.. this is actually easier said than done, as the Broadband Modem *WILL NOT* connect to a Windows or Linux DHCP network. You can see it, but when you try to access the IP and ports, you get errors all over the place.

Requires you to have a network code program to be able to talk to it. These have been created 3rd party from 3rd party SDKs... the stability of the line is about as good as an iMac's stability.

You then have to mount the image you want, and once again you have to put up with 3rd party tools to load the images of the DVD-RAM dics. This is not exactly ideal given they only recognise like 5% of all GameCube games.

Once you have one they do recognise though, your in business so to speak. Well when I say business the program will stream the disc down, and sure it'll run it... except for a minor problem.
The GameCube is designed for constant disc access, the network connection has to hack the memory to let it know to take the data from the NIC rather than the Disc.

While this all sounds grand in theory, there problem quickly becomes aparent that games were not designed to be buffered through the RAM, in and shape or form.

Playing Mario with 5 minute loading times each section, and a slow down every Nth frame was NOT fun. Even less fun was the fact that every 5minutes the GameCubes 'scratch crash screen' would appear.

For those who don't know what that is, it is a screen that says 'an error as occured on your gamecube. press reset. sorry for any inconvenience.' .. this will appear alot when your discs are scratched badly or dirty. Sometimes happens when the cube over-heats too.

So while the statement 'Games for the GameCube are possible to be pirated', there is nothing the statement saying that the results are even close to acceptable. :p

There is another method in which you can replace the BIOS with your own, but you quickly realise that the CPU itself actually has some of the OS built-in, because you get a number of error messages that appear when you try to run a game that has no protection.

The same goes for is you copy the disc from GC to Mini DVD-RAM. There is a screen that appears saying 'There is a problem found with the GameDisc, this might be because it is dirty or scratched.'

At the end of the day while it is possible, and yes I have got a version of Linux (and Windows Embedded actually) running on the GameCube, the fact of the matter is that you aren't going to see cube games sold down Bovingdon Market for a £10 each like you do X-Box and Playstation 2 games.

What it takes (and compatibility wise) to get these game pirated, until there is a viable Emulator. Piracy for the GameCube really is going to be negleable at best.

It isn't like the GBA where you can buy a kit that allows you to copy games from Cart-to-Cart. That said the Nintendo DS actually has protection against that. So now really the only way to pirate NDS games is to download them and run them on your PC.

Which let's all be honest here, playing Emulated games just isn't the same.

I know despite having a Doctor64 and copying games to my PC with excellent emulators like Project64 and 1964, I still prefer to boot up my N64 and play it on the console itself.

Eric T
21
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Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:15 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2005 09:16
Your forgeting one game...

[hint]
/me dashes around the room twice
[/hint]

Edit: BTW, it requires some extra tools to do it with the game I am hinting towards...PSO is the easy way

Oh, and I have seen the games run off a PC before, though they ran kinda slow. Its not nearly as easy as XBOX or the PS2 though.

Required
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Joined: 25th Feb 2005
Location: Server Down
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:19
Double Dash needs that special update that allows it to play online.
I've had the games running on my PC, but given an AMD FX-55 w/6800 Ultra was running Mario Sunshine at 8fps, and wasn't exactly showing it in it's full glory (much like most N64 emulators running Mario64 actually) ... I'd hardly call it worth while.

I mean unless you like playing games that look like hallucinegenic dream worlds.

As I said, it just isn't possible to mod your cube and play anything pirated like the other consoles. With all the effort and work it takes to get them running, honestly it would take less time to put that effort into earning the money to buy the game so more games can be made.

Jeku
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21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:28
First you said:

Quote: "I have not heard of Nintendo having games pirated. "


Then you say:

Quote: "At the end of the day while it is possible, and yes I have got a version of Linux (and Windows Embedded actually) running on the GameCube"


Along with your huge description, you prove that it *is* possible to pirate the NGC games. Whether they're fun or not really isn't the point.

Your description of the task at hand is very detailed, and I believe you took the effort to try it out. I have seen it done by several people at a local flea market in town (shady market, they even copy PS2 games while you wait), and I've seen it done on the net on a video (forget which one off the top of my head). I was going to try myself (for educational purposes) but don't want to shell out money to get a copy of PSO 1 off Ebay.

But it *is* possible.


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Benjamin
22
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:32
Quote: " (much like most N64 emulators running Mario64 actually)"

Project64 ran it just fine for me, full speed and everything. Unless theres something I'm missing.


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Required
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:46
the first post wasn't mine :p
yeah I know it's possible, but the process needed and the end results really mean that for the general public it just isn't worth it.

as has been mentioned many times over the years by Microsoft.
'There is no such thing as a secure system. Only a system that deters all but the most dedicated malicious programmers.'

It is true with everything. Only a matter of time before the system was broken, but when you look back.

Playstation 2 - Pirate Games hit the streets within a week.
X-Box - Pirate Games hit the streets within a week
GameCube - They're still trying to get a successful and publically valid method working after 3years

From my pov, this really does make it not just the most secure, but also most successful anti-piracy method deviced. It is also firm proof that TCPA works.

After all, the only way people have been able to pirate has been through security loop-holes in the networking connection. That's just shoddy OS programming really, the actual security system is in-tact.

I look forward quite eagerly to thier next version. Should be even more secure now mistakes have been made.

Eric T
21
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Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 09:54
Oh, BTW, if you want to see how far along GC emu is:

http://www.dolphin-emu.com/index.php

Check their forums for a few unoffical updates.. etc..

Benjamin
22
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Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 10:08
Quote: "Today it's a good and a bad day for dolphin. After months of silence we decided it's time to do a release... a final release.
And yes you've read it right, there won't be another release in future."



"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Eric T
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 11:33
Unofficial releases dude... thats why i said look at the forums.

Ian T
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 11:45 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2005 12:16


It is a perilous occupation for TGC to post anything by way of a promise, as the words get etched in indestructable marble for all time.
-Lee Bamber
Jeku
Moderator
21
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Joined: 4th Jul 2003
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 11:47
Quote: "the first post wasn't mine"


I don't care whether you're the same person or not, but you didn't do your usual

[Raven]

before your post so I assumed you were the same person. Whoever you are (from your last post), can you just tell Raven to sign up under a new account? This will probably confuse most anybody who knew you from before.


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Damokles
21
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Joined: 28th May 2003
Location: Belgium
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 14:58
For software it sounds strange to me that people want to copy it, because there are mostly free versions of programs.

Quote: "Often it will be pointed out to me someone who is using software, like 3D Studio Max, or Maya. Someone who clearly can not afford it, asking for help with it."


I doubt about the "Someone who clearly can not afford it", because there are things like Ebay or an Enterprise that bough new programs and so.
And here is one good tip for the students here : Some companies give products to a lower price to students or teachers (i.e. Adobe). So even if it's only for teachers, you could still ask it to a teacher that doesn't need it.

- Mind the gap -
bitJericho
22
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Joined: 9th Oct 2002
Location: United States
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 15:47
plus there's places like www.techsoup.com that sells software to nonprofits at little cost..

For example, I got dreamweaver mx 2004 from my former employer for 17usd..


Yarr join teh New and Improved LoGD!
Benjamin
22
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Joined: 24th Nov 2002
Location: France
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 21:54
Anyone noticed that Raven changed his name to Expired? ...


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Van B
Moderator
22
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 22:26
The thing with the gamecube is that you just don't feel like even trying to pirate games for it. I can see the attraction in cracking XBox games and PS2 games, because they're damn expensive, you would'nt feel bumped at buying a pirate XBox game for £10. Thing about gamecube is the games are so cheap now, there's really no point in beating the console to the ground with piracy and I believe that a lot of hardware hackers out there feel the same way.

Cracking is something that most of us just can't do these days. Like on the PSX I knew what I was doing, it was somehow incredibly easy compared to the rigmarole that is XBox cracking. The only hacking I've done on XBox was Halo (I own enough copies to be void of guilt), which I managed to get my own title screen onto - a nice little excercise in hellish hacking if ever there was one.


Van-B


It's c**p being the only coder in the village.
MicroMan
21
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Joined: 19th Aug 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 23rd Mar 2005 23:41
Still, though the notion of hacking and cracking is fairly obnoxious. I mean, a few of us in here would like to earn a buck or two on our code. I know I would. If I then went ahead and stole software, then I'd have a poor argument when my stuff was pirated. That's my reasoning on this.

But I'd wish the antipiracy people were a little less heavy-handed: going to the extreme of placing a shady server at an ISP to get a legal justification to raid the said ISP is stupid. I know one antipiracy bureau that will NEVER be seen online again - at least in this country.

It is also stupid because it got out. The informant was disclosed. A slew of highly embarrasing articles has been published in swedish media.

-----
They SAID that given enough time a million monkeys with typewriters could recreate the collected works of William Shakespeare... Internet sure proved them wrong.
-----
Ron Erickson
Moderator
21
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Joined: 6th Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posted: 24th Mar 2005 02:01
I've been away from the Forums lately. Who is Required supposed to be anyway?

If it isn't Raven ( ), then I'd suggest stopping him from using your account.

From the Acceptable Usage Policy:
Quote: "Follow the netiquette rules and be a kind netizen
Don't post just to advertise a website unless it is on-topic
Do not post spam or pyramid schemes
Do not post links to illegal software sites
Do not post serial numbers of ANY product
Do not post cracks for ANY product
Do not post software or crack lists
Do not post using someone elses identity
Do not involve or advocate illegal activities (including piracy)
You alone are fully responsible for the ENTIRE content of your messages"


EZrotate!
Tokamak Physics Wrapper!

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