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Geek Culture / What we should really have...

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cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 04:32 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 19:27
Edit: Already made something, see http://www.cusointeractive.com, please look at all posts below for more information.

Blabla(but I think it's important)
Excuse me for the somewhat vague title of this post, but, to be honest, I wanted to draw some attention to this topic.
I really think we need something like a publisher. Not to make money, but something like a freeware publisher, that way the games from the darkbasic community will get more attention from the general public.

To give an example
Age of Mythology is made by Ensemble Studios
Impossible Creatures is made by Relic Entertainment
Zoo Tycoon is made by Blue Fang Games
All of the three titles are published by Microsoft, but all three titles have been developed by different studios. Because all three have been published by the same publisher, these titles are seen by the public easier and sooner. Okay, of course it's also because of the fact that Microsoft is a very well known publisher all ready, but if a 'darkbasic publisher'-thing would give out a lot of games, it could become very well known too.

My idea
We should have ONE 'brandname' that publishes all the darkbasic games, for the reason I've given in the text before. That 'brandname' should have an own nice looking website, that displays all 'our' games. All darkbasic games should state in the readme that it's published by the 'brandname' and of course have a link to the website of the 'brandname'. In the game it should display the logo of the publisher/brandname(not all the time, just at the start or something like that, it shouldn't be a rule, just a guidline). The website should not only display all games, but should also provide download links, a description and screenshots.

Disadvantages
Possible disadvantages could be the loss of individuality. But it doesn't have to be that great of a loss. The websites of the developers don't have to dissapear, they could stay. The readme could show BOTH the publisher AND the developer. Also the logo of the developer and the publisher could be shown in the game.

Advantages
Like I stated earlier, more attention for all of our games is a big advantage. But our games will also look more professional when they are all futured on a website and have something like a publisher. Also, some games don't have a website at the moment, because the developer doesn't have webspace, now they can be futured at the publisher's website. Because all the games are futured on both your website, and the website of the publisher, they just have a little more chance to be seen and downloaded.
And there could be a game a and a game b, both published by the 'darkbasic-publisher'. Someone downloads game a, and thinks 'hey cool game, wait.. let's go to the publishers website' There he sees game b, and he downloads game b, that kind of things are just big advantages, when we would more unite.

A possible plan
At the moment, I've a domain that isn't used(http://www.cusointeractive.com). It could function as a publisher for all dark basic games. The publisher could simply be CuSo Interactive. You may think... 'yeah, he makes this post, just to make some profit himself'. But that's not true, the domain costs me 50 euros a year, and the site won't have any advertisements! Also if there will be shareware or other non-freeware games futured on the site, no money will go to me, it will al go to the developer(of course). I really don't have this idea to make any profit, okay, well a little bit. I make some games too, sometimes, and I would love it when there would be something like one publisher for all darkbasic games.
And, it's not even necessary to do it on CuSo Interactive, if someone has a better idea, be my guest=) Of course I wouldn't do it all alone, I should need some people that helps me with deciding which games should be futured on the mainpage and that kind of stuff, and the deciding of choosing a nice logo. Just think about this idea, and post your comments, please.

(Sorry for my bad English, it isn't my native language. Also sorry for the big post.)

Three Score
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 04:55
wow pretty good plan

X-Patch x-patch.exe(gui):75% make.exe:5% x-patch.dll(runtime dll):0% developed on win xp home sp2
Hawkeye
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 05:36
Not bad Only problem is, it couldn't host ALL of the dbp games... cuz tgc is going to publish Bolt's Firewall, and Void is self-publishing starwraith, riftspace, etc... But I like it

Ian T
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 05:49
The publisher gets a cut of the profits but in return brings in more sales than the developer would be able to get working solo-- basic economics, but why go to a new publisher when there are plenty of indy ones out there that would be far more reliable, or even TGC themselves?

And quite frankly it would be bad marketing to collect a bunch of games together as having been made with DarkBASIC, simply because of the stigma related to games made with easier to use tools.

mouseweb.net

New and improved nice guy
cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 05:56 Edited at: 27th Mar 2005 05:59
Quote: "The publisher gets a cut of the profits but in return brings in more sales than the developer would be able to get working solo-- basic economics, but why go to a new publisher when there are plenty of indy ones out there that would be far more reliable, or even TGC themselves?
"

Of course you're right.. The best thing WOULD be if TGC would do it themselves, I think you're right on that one, but I'm not sure if they would do it with more games than firewall... And I'm not really talking about the selling of products(of course it should be possible too), but it should be especially for freeware games, that THEY would receive more attention too. There aren't many 'publishers' that publish freeware games, without asking some money for it.

Quote: "
And quite frankly it would be bad marketing to collect a bunch of games together as having been made with DarkBASIC, simply because of the stigma related to games made with easier to use tools."


On this one you're right too, but it's not necessary to state on the main site something like 'All of these games are made with Darkbasic'. The fact that it features many darkbasic games, doesn't mean that fact should be obvious for every visitor.

To conclude, I just think it would be nice to have all(or many) darkbasic games at one place. Just to give them more attention. But in the end, it's only an idea

EDIT:
@Shadows of Emptiness: thanks for your reaction.
@Hawkeye: Thanks to you too, and you're right.. And of course not all darkbasic(if any) would want to coƶperate with this initiative, but to have as many games as possible at one place, would be, imho, a good thing.

cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 06:04
I could have edited my post another time, but it would get a bit messy, I think. I've another thing to say at mouse's comments:
Quote: "The publisher gets a cut of the profits but in return brings in more sales than the developer would be able to get working solo-- basic economics"

It wouldn't be necessary, because the selling of games could be handled by the developer, without any 'help' of the publisher, so the developer would get all the money, and the publisher nothing. And as I stated before, this publisher(and publisher isn't really the right word for it) would mainly take care of giving more attention to (freeware) games. I hope I'm clear, but I don't know, because my English isn't good enough, I guess.

Jeku
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 06:45
Yes but what if we don't want to be published by this publisher? Some of us do have other real for-profit publishing deals :p


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cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 07:01 Edited at: 27th Mar 2005 07:02
Quote: "
Yes but what if we don't want to be published by this publisher? Some of us do have other real for-profit publishing deals :p
"

(quoting myself)
Quote: "
@Hawkeye: Thanks to you too, and you're right.. And of course not all darkbasic(if any) would want to coƶperate with this initiative, but to have as many games as possible at one place, would be, imho, a good thing.
"

So to really answer your question, no-one should be forced to use this 'publisher'. It should just be an 'option' for people who want their software to get some more attention. In my opinion, it would be a nice option. I'm just thinking it this way.. If there would something like this allready, I would make use of it And btw, Jeku I really like your games

the_winch
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 07:14
I definatly think someone would create a site as a showcase for dbpro games.

Just a faily simple list of games with screenshots and a description. Allow users to rate and comment on the games for developer feedback and a little quality control.

I would have thought it is something tgc would really want to do. Showing potential customers a big selection of completed games to show what the language can do can only be a good thing.

Quote: "this is not a quote"
cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 07:17
Indeed the_winch.. You get what I mean. The only difference I have in mind, is that every game displayed on that list should have something in the game(be it IN the game or in a readme) that links to that list. If the game doesn't have that link, it shouldn't be on the list. That kind of 'publisher' is what I have in mind. I hope more people like the idea.

@the_winch: I'm sorry if I was wrong assuming that you liked my idea, but I thought that was kind of what you're post is saying

Raven
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 09:41
Raven / Studio, has currently the software (but not the hardware unfortunately) to impliment am internet-based publishing service.

The system works like a bastardisation of Steam or PlayOnline in many respects, along with an API/Plug-in System for .NET/C++/Pascal/DarkBasic/PureBasic/BlitzBasic to allow developers to self-maintain patches, trials, and security.

Although funding could be established for getting the servers and internet connections required for such a service, a more pressing issue I've felt was the determination of prices and such.

Hosting, Bandwidth, and Space.. are not free. Hell let's be honest they're not even remotely cheap. So when you getting a HUGE amount of web-traffic like what a publisher requires, funding *MUST* be provided from somewhere.

The current thought is to provide a client, that allows people to download and play trials of the retail titles only.. or rather retail titles and games that are popular. Reasoning behind popular is because it would be gaining potencial customers for the service. People are more likely to buy something actually having it (or that's the theory).

For the freeware games, you would have to pay a subscription to download them. While it might seem like a con to some people, it would really be the only non-profit section.. as many free games as you want for a subscription.
In order to intise people, maybe offer 1 free game download a month.

Still anyway you look at it, the major problem is money.
Providing a service people would be willing to use (and pay for), while not looking like your just trying to make a fast buck to everyone.

Seriously, do people believe that Web Server freely grow on tree outside? Perhaps I should buy myself one of those IBM Trees :p

Something you always get is.. 'well Valve provide you with free access to Steam!'. Honestly the response to that is quite simple, look at thier network quality! Not to mention people are spending $50-80 on Half-Life 2, as well as other games they sell.

They have one of those 'sure-fire' hits, that is making them billions. They can afford to provide a handful of servers for the world for free!

The reason TGC will never do this is, simply because they don't make enough. Dark Basic Professional sells, sure. but it doesn't mean that they're raking it in like Microsoft. DBP only has a limited market appeal, with very little advertising. Not to mention the word-of-mouth is possible a bad thing considering the majority of posts bitching about the product here.

Well I wish you luck with this, but I think providing just a Dark Basic Review site would be better.. like say an eMagazine that people read review on the latest hardware, games, etc.. like PC Gamer or something but more exclusive to the products and such developed here.
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 11:14
Quote: " I definatly think someone would create a site as a showcase for dbpro games."

Quote: "Well I wish you luck with this, but I think providing just a Dark Basic Review site would be better.. like say an eMagazine that people read review on the latest hardware, games, etc.. like PC Gamer or something but more exclusive to the products and such developed here."


I did it already. It doesn't work. This is like the 9th person I personally tell...

Quote: "I really think we need something like a publisher. Not to make money
"


You do realize publishing costs money? What's the point of a publisher if not to make profit?

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MikeS
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 11:42
Megaton, just because you didn't do it doesn't mean someone else can't try.

If nothing, I'd just like to see a site that reviews DBC/DBP games, offers a link to a download, ratings,and allows comments to be posted.

Really wouldn't be hard to do. You could then track the downloads and based on that, ratings, and comments you could probably negotiate to get a team to develop a game.

Honostly don't think it's likely even 10% of the people who submit games to the site will get published. Of course, that all depends on how lenientyou want to be.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
hyrichter
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 11:52
Quote: "If nothing, I'd just like to see a site that reviews DBC/DBP games, offers a link to a download, ratings,and allows comments to be posted."


That's part of the plan for your new site, Mike.

MikeS
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 12:03
Perhaps there could be room for some kind of publishing. We'll have to talk about this.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
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Megaton Cat
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 12:35
You're right Mike. I didn't put it properly.

What I meant was a site like tha is a huge undertaking. It won't be easy.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 12:56
*opens DBG folder and peers inside*


"Lets migrate like bricks" - Me
Jeku
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 14:05
@RTSpider --- Ahh, I see--- it makes sense now I guess that's what I get for posting just after I get out of bed...

Quote: "And btw, Jeku I really like your games"


Thanks, man! One never gets sick of hearing this


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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 14:47
Of course if one had real publishing deals you wouldn't go here, but what about smaller games or games that don't get publishing deals? I would thoroughly enjoy a site that showcased DB games, allowed posting crit and whatnot, sorta like Garage Games is set up. Then you could get more, "And btw, Jeku I really like your games". Do it man. I have a school project I'll upload.

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 22:44
Thank you all for your nice and realistic comments. After reading all of them, I think something like this would be the best, to start with:

Just making a kind of showcase, having screenshots and download links, but not hosting the actual files itself. And then like Bear Crazy Donut Productions, as well as others, said something like the ability to post crits. To give more attention to the site itself, I could, at the start, contact the developers myself, and ask them permission to feature the game on the showcase-website. When it's more well-known to the public, developers will more and more submit their games themselves, I hope.
I think this idea, while being somewhat different from my original idea, will have some potential, and would be more realistic to succeed.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 22:56 Edited at: 27th Mar 2005 22:56
That's ok, I'm used to being ignored.

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cusoi
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Posted: 27th Mar 2005 23:08
I didn't mean to ignore you, I'm very sorry if you feel it like this...

And I know it will be a huge undertaking, but I THINK I would be able to handle it... But I don't know, I just want to try

cusoi
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 00:13
Now I have made something already, look here: http://www.cusointeractive.com

The description page isn't there yet, but I just wanted to show how I wanted it to look in general. Also I don't have a screenshot for my game Numbrolia, so that's not an error. Note that all games that are shown, aren't 'coded' in html, but all info is in a MySQL Database. It's coded in PHP, with all the information stored in a MySQL database.

MikeS
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 01:35
Looking good so far. I know it's early on, but make sure you have a organized search function, and that you remember to track as much information about each game you can (downloads per month, year, comments, etc.). That will be essential to your market research.



A book? I hate book. Book is stupid.
(Formerly known as Yellow)
cusoi
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 01:39
Thank you MikeS, and I was already planning to track that kind of information, in fact it's already implemented, only not shown at the moment But, a search function is a very good idea, and I will implement this too for sure, I hadn't thought about this already.

cusoi
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 01:49
I've now made the description pages(although I've given none of my games a description yet). I want to know, from you guys, which things I should display.

I've already displayed the name of the game, the type of the game, the developer, the description, a download link and two screenshots.

I'm planning to implement the following things:
- The date the game is added
- Comments
- Number of times downloaded

So, the thing I would like to know is, what else? Thank you for your time.

Osiris
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 02:19
Maybe you should let people rank it.

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 03:42 Edited at: 29th Mar 2005 03:44
I like how it's simple, easy to access and straight to te point. Design needs abit of work though, but a dynamic updating system where you could review would own.

Something of this format: I'll use game name 'Fish nuts' as an example.

Name: Fish Nuts
Type: Game - 3rd person shooter
Developer: Frisky Critter Software (hyperlinked to thier site)
Download: CLICK TO DOWNLOAD 1000mb
-------------------------------------------------------------
Review:

Fish nuts really grabs you because of it's splended controls and quirky characters. What other game let's you invade a space station filled with evil Tuna terrorists? Or climb mount Everest while avoiding Salmon snipers. FN's level design is so vibrant and detailed, that you simply desire to reach out and touch it.

Bla blah blah. A few of my main issues with Fish Nuts is the lack of educational value.
Blah blah blah I've encountered problems of Fish Nuts crashing after I yell the word "Frisky spree!"

Camera could use some work etc...blah blah...

----------------------------------------------------------------

Final word

Highs: Amazing puzzles, great levels, attractive fish design
Lows: No nudity, lackluster menus, no nudity
verdict: A great game for any fans of Fish.

Score: 89%

[SCREEN SHOTS GO HERE]

EDIT: Ofcourse the review would be longer and deeper, but I just cooked this up on the spot.

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Briere
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 03:52
you should have the option of using it though, after all by buying the program, what you make should be yours and no one elses unless you say so.
cusoi
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 05:41
@Megaton: What about this? Two ranking/review systems, one review from the site itself(at this moment: me) with a score attached to it. And also all visitors can review the games and give a score to it. Thereafter you can view the 'Site-score' and 'Visitor-score' or something like that. Is that ok, you think?

Megaton Cat
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 12:12
Letting the average Joe Review and score a gmae isn't such a good idea and can lead to alot of sillyness. Besides it doesn't seem very proffesional, but it's up to you. I think a # of Downloads counter would be much more appriciated among game Authors.

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Ian T
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 12:41
I think he means in a secondary section, not as the main feature. Gamespot and most other gaming sites have a "community review" feature too.

(Congrats to RTspider for getting his idea this far, it's sounding quite good)

mouseweb.net

New and improved nice guy
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 14:32
Yes, I think you'd better stick in site/visitor reviews and ranking, and the download count. What if a bunch of people downloaded the game and they all hated it, that wouldn't be helpful to the developers if nobody was able to voice their opinion about the game.

You should get five bucks or something similar (I'm broke at the moment, so sorry).

Crazy Donut Productions
Current Project: A Redneck game
cusoi
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 20:42
Thanks for your nice comments

Megaton, you're right in the way that it wouldn't be good to show the score on the main page, but mouse is right. I meant to include it, as a secondary option. And like BCDP said, it would be helpful for the developers to get feedback. And a score is always nice, because you can compare your game to other games more easy that way. And because the visitor-score isn't visible as a avarage score, it wouldn't harm your game in a bad way. You can just see what score everyone gives, not the avarages of all scores, that way it isn't possible for just ONE person to lower your avarege to a minimum.

And thanks again, I really like the fact that your thinking with me about it

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