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Geek Culture / your system and games

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DeHonCha
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:22
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i opened this thread to talk about the technical details of gaming.
to get the ball rolling, here are a few Qs for those who know the answers:

1. what is the difference between direct 3d, direct draw and direct x
2. what is a display adapter, video card, graphics card and what does each do

For when they said I couldn't, I did...
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Dot Merix
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 09:55
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DirectDraw is a part of DirectX. DirectX consists of DirectDraw, DirectSound, DirectMusic, DirectInput, DirectPlay, Direct3D Immediate Mode, Direct3D Retained Mode, DirectAnimation, DirectShow.

A graphics card aswell as a video card are the same things i believe.. same goes for display adapter.



WindowsXP Home(Service pack 2), Athlon XP 2400+(2.1Ghz), 1GIG Ram, Ati Radeon 9800Pro 128MB.
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BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 14:43
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DirectDraw is becoming a bit dated though because you can juse use 3d sprites with Direct3d.

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Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 15:31
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1. DirectDraw = 2D, Direct3D = erm.. guess
DirectX is the API/Engine as a whole, DD and D3D are just sections.

Kinda like how Dark Game is the engine behind DBP, and then you have Basic2D and Basic3D. It's no different really.

2. Display Adapter, is the currently used Graphics / Video card.
About 10years ago a Video Card ment 2D and a Graphics Card ment 3D, but now they've become interchangeable terms because the cards have really become one type.

Thier job is to make the pictures that appear on your monitor.. the better the card the faster it can do it.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 15:38
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Raven v2...

Raven, YOU'RE AN IDIOT! *official* stamp it.


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Van B
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 19:58
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Wow, it's comforting to know that people making videogames as a hobby know what a graphics card is!

Come on Dehoncha, this is a coders forum, we all know how DirectX is put together, kinda manditory for those using it as an engine.


Van-B

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Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 20:17
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perhaps jimbo, but i'll never reach the level you've managed.. I salutes you

Van, I thought that was the whole point many people are using DBP. So they don't have to know the technical side of things?
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 20:28
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Knowing that DX is made from 2D, 3D and other components is not the technical side of anything, neither is knowing that a graphics and video card are pretty much the same thing for people who no longer own a Voodoo2.

I'm pretty sure there's more advanced stuff that could be discussed, like recommended minimum graphics cards for modern games for instance.


Van-B

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DeHonCha
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 22:51
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what's api stand for? and also if you get the error "runtime error - display mode doesn't support 24 bit depth - select 16 bit or 32 bit" what does that have to with?

sorry moderator Van B - but I *DO KNOW WHAT A GRAPHICS CARD IS* and all that other stuff, I just wanted to make sure and to allow those new gamers to get to know the stuff AND to let all those hot-shot C++ programmers know that we *do* know the technicalities too.

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Van B
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 23:03
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Dehoncha,

I did'nt say you did'nt .

I'm saying that on this forum, it's pointless going through the basics of PC gaming when most of us (you included) have forgotten more than most gamers know about the internals of gaming - and anyone who's here tends to be here because they write games rather than play them.

Maybe it would be easier if people quizzed this topic, like if someone is wondering how they do a particular game effect, or how something works, anyone who knows the answer can interject.


Van-B

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Raven
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 23:19
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Sounds like a plan.
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DeHonCha
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Posted: 29th Mar 2005 23:24 Edited at: 29th Mar 2005 23:25
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@ van-b: i agree

For when they said I couldn't, I did...
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DeHonCha
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 20:53
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let's talk about other game engines

but in your opinion - what do you think is better, the darkbasic
series or truevision3d?

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Van B
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 21:04
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Truevision3D, or any engine that runs in VB that I've used tend to disapoint the hell outta me. VB is very far from a game creation language, DBPro kicks it into touch really. I program in VB all day, when I go home at night the last thing I want to look at is VB code. VB is good for applications because of the way it organises it's code, the same app coding benefits detract from any game coding benefits it has. The DX SDK is probably the best option for people who want to learn more, not necesserily adopt an engine, just mess around with some ideas - that was my first mess-around with 3D, and I found it very approachable.


Van-B

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DeHonCha
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 21:56 Edited at: 30th Mar 2005 21:57
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if i wanted some programming language (not matter how difficult) to be of industry standard code and as fast as possible - what should i chose?

and also - do i need vb / c++ to run truevision3d?

and also - is truevision3d far away from game programming?

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Van B
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 22:00
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How commercial games are out there that use Truevision3D?

Personally, I'd say OGRE and Newton with C++ would make for a commercial quality engine. Lots of learning right there though.


Van-B

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DeHonCha
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Posted: 30th Mar 2005 23:22 Edited at: 30th Mar 2005 23:23
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the reason i was checking out truevision3D was cuz it had low specs - i actually want dark game - but i have a crappy pII - so ....
i have a hardware question

if i have a PII and upgraded the MOTHERBOARD ONLy to p4 - do you think that that will affect the hard drive and other stuff?

For when they said I couldn't, I did...
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HWT
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 04:24
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Hi

Can anyone please explain the difference between AGP and PCI (ps. what *does* PCI stand for) slots?

I'm a new comer to DBC and computers altogether but not to gaming

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Mnemonix
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 07:54
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API stands for application programming interface I believe

The 3d chat is coming...
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Raven
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 08:07
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PCI stands for Personal Computer Interface
There are too many technical differences to go in to how they are different... simple version is AGP is for Graphics only, and is faster.

Technically though it is the same technology.
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HWT
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 08:28
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So... what is PCI and API exactly (if you don't mind my asking )?

Also, does anybody know where I can learn more about (for free) computers and gaming terms like anti-aliasing, mipmapping and etc....

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Raven
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 08:53
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There's a terms dictionary on Polycount.com

PCI works via your computers chipset, so all access it has to the rest of the system (including the CPU/RAM) goes through the chipset.
They also run on either 33MHz (PCI 1.0 32bit) or 66MHz (PCI 2.x 64bit).

While this provides reasonable speed for most computer operations the system bottle necks graphics cards.
So the AGP (Accelerated Graphics Port) is almost literally a PCI socket designed to bypass the chipset and access the CPU/RAM directly. This allows it to operate without bottlenecks.

As it you only had 1 on a system it became possible for the slot to change quite dramatically given the life-time of the graphics card is about 12months. So there were no worries about making things incompatible.

As such the AGP comes in 4 versions. 1.0 (1x/2x) are 33MHz/66MHz basically a PCI Slot, it runs about 5% quicker due to no bottlenecks. 2.0 (4x) 166MHz 128bit, this variation allows for much larger memory useage; allowing for alot more data throughput. 3.0 (8x) 266MHz 256bit... same as 4x but almost double the speed.

Unfortunately AGP really started to hit it's limits, because of the limitation on the original PCI design.

Hense PCI-Express (PCI v3.0) was designed as a replacement to both PCI and AGP. Providing the bandwidth required, and chipsets that allow for multiway data. Unlike the single-way that has limited the original design.
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HWT
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Posted: 7th Apr 2005 20:57
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Thanks guys for the help

Something's been buggin me; I've been trying to ScanDisk my C drive, but I get this error:
"ScanDisk has restarted 10 times because some Windows program is writing using the resource" or something like that? Any ideas why this is happening and how to stop it please?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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HWT
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Posted: 9th Apr 2005 03:37
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I've found this great resource for beginners who want to learn the technicals of gaming and computershref]
http://www.tamingthebeast.net/seng/whatis.htm[/href]
http://whatis.techtarget.com/

Enjoy!

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Phaelax
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Posted: 9th Apr 2005 03:58
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Any chance Glide will be reborn and I can use my old voodoo again?
..........
Crap, didn't think so.

PETA - People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
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Pricey
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 04:58
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A while ago I made the mistake of buying a new motherboard and assuming that it would have AGP as standard. Its damn hard trying to find cheap PCI graphics cards. I am stuck with a 32mb SIS on this computer but am going for a 128mb Radeon 9600 on my new system AGP 8x ^_^

:: 1.8 gHZ AMD Duron :: 256 MB Ram :: 32 MB SiS Graphics ::

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HWT
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 07:15
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What exactly does MMX mean, as in "Pentium 2 processor 300 Mhz MMX"?

HelloWorld Tommorrow
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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Apr 2005 10:43
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@HWT - Do you use Google... ever? So many of your questions could be answered in two seconds by typing the question into Google :p

I *believe* that MMX means multimedia extensions, but I'm probably wrong. I used to have a PII-200Mhz MMX machine, and I just remember it was good at the time.


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Mentor
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Posted: 12th Apr 2005 04:26 Edited at: 12th Apr 2005 04:35
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MMX = matrix math extensions or (as in alternative) multimedia extensions iirc

[edit]
according to hyperdictionary

Quote: " matrix math extension (MMX) (NOT an acronym for "MultiMedia eXtension", according to Intel, but an Intel brand name) A set of 57 extra instructions built into some versions of Intel's Pentium microprocessors for supporting SIMD operations on multimedia and communications data types.

MMX-enhanced processors are due to be released early in 1997. They will be fully compatible with previous Intel processors and software but software will only benefit if it is written to use the new instructions. They can handle many common multimedia operations, such as digital signal processing, normally handled by a separate sound card or video card.
"


SIMD stands for Single Instruction, Multiple Data
Mentor.

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