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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / What are DarkBasic Pro's Limitations?

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DARKGirl
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 14:06
Hi, I jest ordered DarkBasic Pro, and I was wondering what were the limitations of the language. I have been paper writing a game for about 2 years now, and I'm jest about finished. Now it's time to start on the object, map, and programming bit. One more question...I plan on using motion capture equipment to aid in the development of animating my objects...can DBP handle such objects used with this type of process? I know it might be a very stupid question, but I want to be 100% sure. Oh, and I'm using Maya as well. I jest need to know what it can and cannot do so I won't set my expectations too high.

Thankx for your time,

Flux
“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Hubdule
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 14:13
http://www.darkbasicpro.com/features.php

*hinthint



Kangaroo2
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 15:36
I'm not sure if DBP can use motion capture files externally to anim8 a model, but It'll certainly play and animation attatched to a dx obbject, and you can use motion capture to do that with the right software. I'm sure there must be a plugin or something for Maya

Basically tho DBP is only really limited to the system you use and your imagination and skill, if you are clever enough with your planning and optimising of the project

Rob K
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 15:48
Motion capture has nothing to do with DBPro as such. It is the job of the modelling software to handle motion capture, not the game engine. If you find software that can animate a model using motion capture then you can export the model + animation to .X format. DBP can then play the relevant parts of the animation at runtime as required. Personally I think that motion capture is unneccessary for most games and certainly anything produced at normal DBP user level. Hand animated models can look very good if done with skill. Plus motion capture is very expensive to do, as I'm sure you well know.

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
MrTAToad
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 16:22
Some limitations are : You cant create DLL's from DBPro and most external hardware like scanners, digital cameras can't be used - yet...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
Fluffy Paul
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 18:28
Another limitation is that there's no straight forward way of getting the 3D coordinates of a point under a 2D pixel.
That is to say: if you click on the screen it's hard to work out what you clicked on, even though you know the 2D coordinates of the mouse.

Ending a sentence with a French word is so passé
DARKGirl
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 19:20
To: Darth Shader

You're not lying about the price...but luckily enough, a relative works at a company that produces such motion capture equipment, and I was able to get a HUGE discount (More than 85%) on something that would usually cost as much as a very nice car.

To Kangaroo2:

That's very good to know, but here are my computer specs: Amd Anthlon XP 3000+, 2 Gig of Fast DDR Memory,EVGA GeForce4 Ti4600 8X AGP 128MB, and a 17" TrueFlat monitor. I built it myself to save money. Oh and I have Windows XP Pro. I jest wanted to make sure my computer would be fast enough to work with the motion capture equipment, because I know not of how much strain it would put on the processor/video card.

Hubdule:

Now I feel dumb for asking the question...

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 21:13
What are DarkBasic Pro's Limitations?

your imagination

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 21:15
Toad... there is a way to achieve that, you can even do it directly using Memory Pointers.

FluffyPaul... there is no direct way in the world to do that. In Pro you can achieve it with the BackBuffer and information about the position of the Object within the Render Screen

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
MrTAToad
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 22:30
What - you can use TWAIN using memory pointers !?

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 23:14
How many polygons can DBP handle at one time?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:36
yup... you see below what Ian has done to grab the usage of Winsock.DLL's IP address.

you can use similar technique to access the Parallel and Serial ports using the TWIAN data streams, encode save with a pointer and use windows own functions for that pointer... to recieve you simply grab the same pointer when called for.

i mean it'll take a certain amount of ingeniouity on the programmers part and a decent knowlage of windows builtin functions - but possible

as for Pro's polygon capability that depends on how the coder is able to handel them

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 01:18
Aww Raven, can you at least give me a general number to base my objects on? Like what's too small and what's too large?

Thankx 4 your time...

Flux

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 02:43
Nothing is too small... and i guess generally you should keep the visible scenes to around 50,000 polygons just to keep everything smooth.

Personally i'd keep them below 20,000

and by visible scenes i mean everything veiwable onscreen or rather render'd at per second ... its upto you how you divide it up for everything

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 09:08
I have another question...I'm making an rpg...What's the best way to create a world? I've seen worlds that are made with matrices, and usually the textures put on them are not seamless. Is there any way to create a seamless world, because in my opinion, when you can see the seperate tiles, it looks sort of tacky.

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 10:25
Depends what kind of RPG
The trick to making a good game is to have a good framework to base it upon.

Once you get a world format which does what you want it too including an editor to create to worlds easily... then you have a sound base to work from.
When dealing with worlds, Memblocks are now your new best friends
You can take a world apart and reconstruct it within a memblock as and how you see fit - however for certain RPGs you don't even need to do that just setup a simple visual editor to range what is visible and what isn't.

Arrays are great for capuring alot of virtual data you may require, such as collision areas, and alike.
You can create a seemless world quite simple... just take a texture (any texture will do to demonstrate) then mirror it 2 ways .. L <-> R ... U <-> D ... and then use it. you'll notice no seems

all about how you prepare the texture first - whatever you do after that all it upto you.

Just remember alot of the main work is in the preperation, and the way to ease creation is in making a framework which can be adapted for any situation.

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 11:56
Memblocks? What're those?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:34
Take the time to read through the Help file that accompanies Professional (perhaps download the DarkBasic 1.1x Help Files as they're more complete)

it has all the information you require on memblocks

personally i think they're a godsend

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:28
Thankx....
Is there any other useful advice you can give me?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:30
grab yourself a 24pack of chrisps, perhaps a few other snacks and a 6pack of Coke

for those all niter coding sessions

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:54
HA HA, You're funny. Unfortunately, pop does not agree with my ever so sensitive body chemisty...don't ask.

And about the all nighters...you should have seen me when I was writing my storyboard and raking my brain on those ever so complicated algorithms that determine the character stats/attack/defense/level up/etc. Luckily, I ironed out the errors and they finally work!

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 02:15
oki ... could always do what i have
small table on the other side of the room with a coffeemachine - got one of those Cappachino thingies for that new Nescafé Cappchino - i like my toys

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 02:57
Hey here's a fun thng to do... Move your mouse cursor over to the scroll bar, click and hold it, then waggle your mouse up and down, effectively scrolling up and down this page at highspeed. Voila, Raven's dancing Gir becomes a flickbook style anninmation! *Umm* I think I need to go 2 bed - 2 many all nighters, not enough Coke or Cofee

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 08:13
lmao

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
DARKGirl
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:30
Oookay...silly Kangaroo. Oh, now coffee is another thing...but I'm allergic to chocolate too, so none of that in mine, plz.

Anyway, I have another question. Can DBP chain to other programs?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:35
what do you mean by chain?

It can start and interface with other programs if setup right ... can even have multiple instances of DBpro programs running which talk to each other

if thats not the correct meaning then please do explain futher

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DARKGirl
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:50
That's correct. As a matter of fact, you actually extended my question. You see, I have knowledge in old and new programming languages alike (remember Applesoft or Integer Basic for the Apple computer? <--These are actually my programming language foundation, in the BASIC language, that is), so I assumed that it would still be called chaining when the program automatically executes another program and can pass on variables to the opened program. But, if DarkBasic Pro can even run under multiple instances, then I'd like to know that as well.
Another thing, does it support USB? Or do you have to control it 'manually'?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 01:50
Well the multiple instances can be setup, run, quit and such from within each DarkBasic Standard/Enhanced/Professional program ... as long as you program them to interact they can either through a DLL, a pass file or with Pro directly through memory pointers.

Also USB is capable to be used and access as are any other Ports by utilising Windows DLL's or by setting up data access through your own DLL for these needs.
So as far as that is concerned really its a manual setup rather than a premade function... however many people here suchas IanM,MrTAToad and GuyS work on extention DLLs to further the functionality of the language.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DARKGirl
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 03:14
But you see, I do not know how to create a dll file, I have never really paid attention to them until I started to program in Borland C++. Even then, I never even thought of writing my own for my personal needs. I guess I will have to start learning someday.

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 03:43
well you can either learn using C/C++ ... which it is relatively simple to make them like most C based programs

start with including your headers for what your going to use...
lets just say the standard stuff like



i know you don't need all of them its just what i standardly add
then define a command export lets say ... now any function you use this definition of you'll be allowed to export the results.



you then setup the function in C like,



right now you compile as a Direct Link Library, Borland no doubt has a standard setup - i remember in 5.5 i spent a good day figuring out the setup then i'd AutoDLL.bat just change a line to where i had to compile

now search through the DLL with notepad or something for MyCommand and you'll find it with something afterwards probably MyCommand%XYZY or something like that (i know theres a partern between the callname and the functions import/export but i've not learnt it yet )

you now load the DLL like

Load DLL "Flux.DLL",1

copy that to somewhere you'll remember it because that is the call name within your program ...

you then do Call DLL 1,"MyCommand%XYZY"

and finally use it in the program



and your message box will popup with your string in
useless but cool

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DARKGirl
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 12:47
Wow. Seems pretty simple. I had no Idea that Borland had this wizard, but I'm sure I will use it. So, does this mean that I can (try) to create a command that could control USB devices Directly? Or has that alreadt been implemented?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 14:20
well there is the HID commands... but thats mostly for joysticks and such - i'm sure it extends to anything on the USB ports but i've never really tested it.

I'm pretty sure you can't send data using it, so direct access really not feasible that way.
But would be pretty simple to make a few functions to do certain things you want... just be a lengthy process

as long as you don't expect instant results and you should be fine. just remember to have some fun whilst doing it, releaves headaches (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
DARKGirl
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 17:26
I am aware of the hide command, but does this mean I can place so many objests on the screen, and it won't affect the fps because they are not rendered?

“I create games only to test my imagination’s limits” - MSB
Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 17:36
hidden object arn't render'd so... yeah
however from what i remember it still has to check and with greater amounts of objects Pro isn't a happy bunni

a patch currently being beta tested is set to fixx this thou - just create and hide as many objects and you like and you'll find out that way
best way to understand certain elements is through trial and error

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 19:21
If an object is hidden then it isn't even considered for the frustrum culling (viewable area), so yes it'll be a lot faster and you could hide a whole stack of them if you needed.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming

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