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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Voice functions?

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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2003 22:48
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Can you use chat functions such as netmeeting or messenger in Darkbasic?
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IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:10
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You can write your own chat functions using the multiplayer commands. You'll find that you can't talk to other non-DB chat programs though, unless you use either a standard DLL or a 'Third-party-command' DLL.
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:37
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So I take it that there are no examples or that it has not been done or documented?

I wanted more than text chat, more like the voice functions on xbox live.

I am looking at rapid software prototyping tools, and trying to detirmine what features dark basic has without having to spend time downloading/installing/researching it.

Thanks for the information.

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IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:48
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So you're looking for voice-over-ip?

Well, you're looking in the wrong place IMHO.

The sound recording is designed to sample into memory in (largish) blocks, and the networking stuff is designed for small frequent packets, where you need continual sampling, high compression (probably lossy), and sustained network output.

I know that one or two people are looking at this sort of stuff, but when it will appear is anyones guess.
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:51
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VOIP is built into directx. But finding information is hard. Both netmeeting and messenger use the framework.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:52
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it would be possible to create something like this with the Multiplayer Commands - but unless you have a Broadband Connection you may not get the results you would like.

You'll also need a Ping Server - which acts as the liason between the current users and what is to be sent.

As the first and only attempts i saw of Messengers was back in Oct '01 when DarkMatter was released finding stuff on it maybe very difficult indeed, and right now i don't have the time nor inclination to help out properly.

I guess you're on your own to find out about it more, i'd suggest you start with the multiplayer commands and work from there

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:54
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i'd also suggest you don't go by Microsoft based products...
if you've ever used Voice and Video over Messenger or NetMeeting on anything under a 128k broadband - you'll know that it is ridiculous.

I'd look more into Yahoo!'s version of it... far better down to even 28.8kbps connections

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 00:58
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All I was wanting to know is if dark basic supported voice chat functions such as netmeeting or ms messenger. Voice chat is supported under DirectX 8.1 DirectPlay in the SDK VB examples.

The more I read the forums I realize that this may be good software but I am not really interested in a product that puts out debug code or isn't fully supported.

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 02:41
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the system used within Visual Basic IS NOT the system used within NetMeeting nor Microsoft/Windows Messengers.
Any system based through DirectPlay really isn't capable of the level of Voice or Video that is required by Narrowband connections suchas 56k dialup and ISDN lines.

if you were actually interesting in doing a project like this then you neeed to learn the product your creating it within... even a messenger developed within thr profile language MUST be developed properly and the developer must understand ALL the aspects involved from the start, else you'll get glitched developing for a platform setup which isn't viable on any decent scale.

DarkBasic Enhanced and Professional if you looked within the help both utilised DirectPlay's abilities for transfering media suchas Voice within Net Messages ... however its all about how you use them which would depend on thier sucess on such a scale, and really what would be far better to use would be a TCP/UDP connection accessed through a DLL and memory pointers.

You may understand howto create the messenger itself in VB, but do you even understand howto capture from the current Microphone from either the modem or the soundcard, understand howto check if it is available?

Before you can set something up online and expect it to work you must first and all make sure it can record from in the first place!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 14:32
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The 'RECORD SOUND' command blocks DBPro while it is recording, so unless you were going to implement some sort of turn-about on the talking, you would not be able to get this working.

I would put in place a three thread process:
Thread 1 - Record blocks of sound to a buffer, handing off to thread 2 when done, and creating a new buffer for further recording.
Thread 2 - Compress the buffer received from thread 1, and hand off to thread 3 when done.
Thread 3 - UDP communications session, transmitting the buffer to the receiving machine, and deallocating the buffer when transmission is complete.

Ideally, the size of the compressed buffer should be less than approx 540 bytes to avoid network fragmentation, but if a packet is lost, then don't bother to retransmit as you can always repeat yourself

At the moment, this is beyond what the 'vanilla' DBPro is capable of doing. As you said, you can always write your own commands to do this
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 20:19
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What I was wondering was whether or not DB supported Directx's DirectPlay API of VOIP.

Somone in another forum said to look at the help for the walkie talkie example. I am sure there is many alternatives such as you suggest, but what I wanted to know is if Dark Basic had simple commands for standard DirectX API.

You are wrong in your statements about DirectPlays VOIP. M$ bought Battlefield communicator low bandwidth voice software. Microsoft Messeneger can use voice and video chat fine on a 33.6 modem.

But even then I don't care about modem users because they simply don't have enough bandwidth to make games enjoyable, I am focusing on broadband users only.

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IanM
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 20:26
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Read my post above. DBPro does not support VOIP. If you want it, you'll have to write it.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:59
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Grrr... you know, with thinking like that fine - help yourself around here!

I have a 56k connection and quite frankly Messenger and NetMeeting Transmission and Receiving in unbareable - and it is a Hardware 64kb Modem at that!

i'm getting sick and tired of people like you ... i don't know what the hell you get into games development for if you want it all made for you.
if you don't like DarkBasic Pro's setup USE FUCKIN' VISUAL BASIC!!

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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IanM
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 01:19
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Don't worry about it Raven. We know that people have been playing internet games via modem for years, and the majority of home users STILL use modems.

Just let him work it out for himself - see how many users he gets for his progs
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 02:32
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oki... lol i'm calm now
too many of those kinda posts today i think hehee

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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IanM
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 09:24
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... or too much caffeine
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:40
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Before I got my ADSL, I always found Messenger quite alright on 56K dial-up, even through modem-sharing....

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:50
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i have a modem...what r u guys on?...can I have some?

xxxpetratxxx
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TheCyborg
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:34
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I have a 56k, and use Messenger.
Once i tried the microfone feature together with a friend, who have 256k ADSL and that didn't work out to well. The sound got all choppy.

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:59
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I didn't use voice though...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 17:13
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I was thinking that it would be nice if a developer or tech support would answer the question officially but I guess they are on vacation.

It doesnt really matter, looks like only a few people use the forums, I see the same people posting over and over.

Just because YOU dont want something doesnt mean its not viable. So piss off if your going to get all upset about it.

I think its really stupid that the full help documentation isnt included in the demo. Since information is probably the most important feature.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:11
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We do (officially) answer questions when we fail to see other people do so. But numerous people have already posted to say that no - there are no chat functions in DBPro and the only way to implement them at present would be to write your own DLL to use them. That's it, end of the line. If we add them in the future that's a different question altogether. The full help files ARE included in the demo, just hardly any of the examples. Then again, we could make it a 400meg download if you want (and charge you to download it).

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:48
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Nice friendly place around here.

First getting an answer that has nothing to do with the question.
Second getting told I am in the wrong place.
Third getting told my question is a bad one because some people cant afford a decent net connection.
Fourth having 2 users that clearly post for the post count and do not try to help people (IanM and Raven).
Fifth posting numerous times to get the simplest question answered.
Sixth having and admin try and stick up for rude users. Then say that help files are included, when the help files are not much help but rather poorly written syntax documentation.

EXAMPLE:
MAKE MATRIX
This command will create a matrix to a given width and depth segmented into grid square of a specified arrangement. A matrix can be thought of as a grid landscape with individual tiles that can be textured, raised and
lowered to create a wide variety of surfaces. The matrix number and segment values should be integer values. The width and depth should be real numbers.

SYNTAX
MAKE MATRIX Matrix Number, Width, Height, XSegments, ZSegments


Where are the ranges? How does it get displayed? I think that the developers underestimate the need for good documentation in order to evaluate software. Microsoft may cripple their software as you did but they atleast but full documentation with it.

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:05
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I think you're extremely wrong in most of the points you made above - IanM answered your questions as best he could in a friendly, non-hostile manner.

The fact that what he said didn't appeal to you isn't the point - what he DID say was right - re-read the messages again from him and you'll see it's not him who caused troubles here (he didn't insult you in the same way Raven did for example).

You posted numerous times if DBPro supported "Directx's DirectPlay API of VOIP." - the answer is no we've all said multiple times now. If you can't find it in the manual it's because it doesn't exist as a command. What people are saying about having to make your own DLL to support this if you want it is exactly right - that is currently the only way to achieve what you want. How much more simpler can we put it?

You didn't say "why are the help files not much help" you said are they included? I told you they were. You don't like them, fair enough - but that is a different issue and one we are addressing. I did not defend the "rude" users here (I don't agree with what Raven said to you) but I will defend what IanM said because it was absolutely right.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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IanM
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:25
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I post here for 3 very good (for me) reasons:
1) It gives me satisfaction to know that I may be helping someout out.
2) It challenges me to find something out if I don't know it.
3) It gives me something to do during the long cold winter nights

I'm sorry that I couldn't give you the answers that you wanted, but that's because you wanted a yes to a no question.

PS Rich: Whats my post count up to? Have I got the high score yet?
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:44
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According to Messenger API's it appears that the voice-over part doesn't seem accessible anyway.

Lots of other interesting stuff though...

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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MrTAToad
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:47
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No, I'm wrong - finally found it.

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:57
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IanM: "PS Rich: Whats my post count up to? Have I got the high score yet?"

Heh, actually I haven't got a clue what peoples post counts are and I couldn't care less

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 03:18
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its in your profile Ian


1) The Answer was straight to the point of what you asked from both Ian and myself ... we even gave you possible ways around it. This is how you help people
2) I don't believe anyone told you here that your were in the wrong place, the wrong idea about development means maybe - but not the wrong place
3) Your idea wasn't being told off... you attitude towards low bandwidth users. Any messenger created you should be catering to the ENTIRE spectrum of users, not just the rich/lucki users. It's more common sense than anything else.
4) We're not in this for the post count we give out advice and options, we're mearly replying to your posts here.
5) The question was answered multiple times
6) The Admin never stuck up for either of, he simple said the facts. Within his second post he defended Ian, because he never said anything poor towards you.

If you feel that what was said was rude then fine, quite frankly it was one of those days where everyone expected everything right then - and you didn't appear to be listening to what was said.
I could've said what i had in a more civil tounge, but you were hardly Mr.Polite towards us ...

The help within the Trial version of DarkBasic Professional isn't exactly indepth - and perhaps could be better, but there is no reason to go off like that about it. If you have a question then feel free to ask it, you will get and answer - no matter how many times you ask the same question in different ways you will recieve the same answer... especially if it is a straight yes or no question.

You should actually feel lucky that we wanted to give you an alternative AROUND the problem rather than simple tell you it can't be done.

Almost anything is possible to achieve, however you appear to want to achieve it without any of the work - which leaves you with a simple answer.
You can take our advice and work your OWN system out, or you can leave that project alone ... totally upto you

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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IanM
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 14:35
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Oh wow! I'm spending far too much time here ... thats another one
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 17:30
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"To date you have posted 2835 messages to the forums."

whats yours?

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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isu_compu_dude
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 17:35
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MY POINT EXACTLY!

Here is an example of what I was talkinga about.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dx8_vb/directx_vb/Play/VB_Samps/simplevoice.asp

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Arrow
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WE KNOW!!! It's been stated MANY times, allready. Go back and READ this thread. DBPro isn't some magic device that you say what kinda game you want and, presto, their it is. You have to work at it. Just becuase you don't get the answer you're looking for doesn't give you the right to go off on a sh*t fit. You were given three different ways of doing it, and you respond with hostility. The only thing anyone has tried to do was help you. Get off your high horse and learn some gratitude.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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IanM
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 20:12
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Raven: Erm... not quite that much... 385 ... 386 now

isu: All very interesting ... I look forward to seeing what YOU make of it.
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Shadow Robert
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hehee... i think i've probably got the highest count of the site - most likely cause of my constant "heated" debates

... oki oki ... flamewars - but how am i to know that Alcohol only aggrovates flames

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Kangaroo2
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To date you have posted 1271 messages to the forums.
Not bad since November...

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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MrTAToad
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I'm on 1775..

Good news everyone! I really am THAT good...
http://www.nickk.nildram.co.uk/ for great plug-ins - oh my, yes!
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Shadow Robert
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hehee... cool (^_^)

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Arrow
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305, but I've only been here a little over a month.

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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Shadow Robert
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Hehee... to keep up with me you'll have to adverage in around 700 posts/month

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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IanM
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Um, no. That would be just a tad sad
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Shadow Robert
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lmao... yup probably, you know i have a combined posting of 4,790 posts per month over all the forums i'm in.
dang someday i hope to learn that touchtype art
then i can spend less time one writing.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
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IanM
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 14:41
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What would be really sad though would be to have a quick check of the forums in the morning before you go to work...

Um
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Benjamin
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i have posted quite a few times...

xxxpetratxxx
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