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3 Dimensional Chat / Blender - What do you think of it?

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Troll Fiddler
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Location: Mayo, Ireland
Posted: 17th May 2005 23:49
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Hi all,

Despite my promise to myself to stay away from 3d modelling for a while, I can't do it. I'm obsessive about proving I understand things by *doing* them. The fact that I can't do 3D modelling keeps creeping into my head and distracting me from other things I'm suppsed to be doing.

Unfortunately the tools I have tried so far are severely lacking in docs or extremely complicated to use. I am considering getting the blender manual and learning blender, especially as the MakeHuman scripts look like they will be very good when done.

I don't want to fork out for the manual though, unless blender is some use in modelling and animating creatures for DBP, and also moderately understandable.

Does anyone here use blender? What do you think of it? Are there easier tools that cost the same (i.e free)

Thanks a lot,

Troll.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th May 2005 00:02
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I've always though Blender was awful - didn't know it was still going...

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
AtomZ is here...
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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 18th May 2005 00:11
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It's got an irritating interface alright. Just wondering if it can do the job if you struggle through learning it.
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 18th May 2005 00:50
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I've no idea, to be honest...

Visit http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~nickk
AtomZ is here...
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Guyon
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Posted: 18th May 2005 00:55
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This is really for the 3d section but...
I have used a lot of 3d programs, and Blender while free has a bad interface. Though I have heard one you get used to it it is not so confusing. Plus the documentation is lame unless you buy the book.

My best recommendation for free/cheep 3d modeling is Milksahpe. I had tested the free version and the modeler was nice, and has one of the best .x exporters out every application out there, even compared to the thousand dollar and up modelers.

Pay the very low price for Milkshape and save yourself many headachs.
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BealziBob
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Posted: 18th May 2005 01:12 Edited at: 18th May 2005 01:26
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I tried blender many years ago, but found it so awkward and buggy that I gave up with it. It may have improved, but somehow I doubt it.

What you really have to bear in mind when looking at a cheap/free modeller is the export compatability. Many programs claim to export X models, but few work very well with DBPro.

With this in mind, I would also recommend Milkshape, a nice easy start although it can get a little tricky. Most importantly, It has an excellent X exporter which is absolutley vital. There is a free 30 day trial, but it is super cheap anyway.

Look here:
http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/ms3d/index.html

For modelling Levels have a look at DelED, the light version is free. It is still very much a work in progress with limited modelling capabilities, but can produce stunning fully lightmapped and multitextured environments very easily. In terms of exporting, it goes one better than milkshape, as there is a DBO export plugin for it which guarantees compatability.

Look here:
http://www.delgine.com/

By using BOTH milkshape (for modelling) and deled (for layout), you can have a very versatile modelling suite for less than the price of your average game.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 18th May 2005 05:09
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Butttt if you don't want to spend ANY money, like me, then Blender is the way to go. I agree that the interface is a little weird, BUT if you work through some of the tutorials on the site it turns out it's not that bad. If you approach it with the idea that it'll be like a traditional modeler, like Maya or gameSpace, well.. you'll hate it Simply because it's not the kind of interface you can pick up in 10min, like Milkshape.

For level design I use DelED and Light Map Maker. DelED for the models and LMM for the lightmaps (it's the only free lightmapper I've found that imports/exports to .X, has a useable interface, and is FREE)

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Mr Underhill
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Posted: 18th May 2005 06:07
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IMO, Blender's interface is tolerable if you have a tutorial to guide you through it, but my biggest complaint was the...*ahem*...messed-up camera. I dunno about everyone else, but I'm not a big fan of modelling upside-down half the time.

There are probably ways around it, but I still prefer Milkshape to Blender, personally. Each to his or her own, I guess.

My name is Underhill. Commit it to memory.

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shado
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Posted: 18th May 2005 09:43 Edited at: 18th May 2005 09:43
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blender is very powerfull once u are used to it. u can change the camera options and everything to suit ur needs. if ur not doing animation get wings. if u r doing animation get wings and characterfx lol

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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 18th May 2005 22:40
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Well thanks everyone. Looks like it's a bit of a draw on whether or not people like Blender. I'll have a look at Milkshape and DelED as Bealzibob has given me some good advice before. If they are not easier than other things I've tried I'll spring for the Blender book and see what happens.

Sorry for posting to the wrong section of the forums.

Thanks again to all,

T.
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G Man
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Posted: 19th May 2005 01:38 Edited at: 19th May 2005 01:39
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I've recently begun playing with Silo. I have to say that I love it! The user interface is very easy to use... Really intuitive. While it may not be as inexpensive as milkshape, it is still quite a bargain. Silo does not however export to .X natively, but I don't consider that to be a short coming as I use Lithunwrap for texture mapping and it allows me to export to .X format. If I want to animate the model, I pull the .X file into Fragmotion and it exports to the .DBO format which is even better than the .X format. I use DeleD for level editing and since they've got the .DBO exporter that means you can export all those cool light maps straight out of it into a useable format.

Oh and on the Blender subject... If you can wade through the abysmal user interface and become proficient with it, then you are a better man than me!

Intel Pentium 4, 3.4GHz, 1280MB RAM, NVidia Quadro FX3000/256MB, 240GB HD, XP Pro
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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 19th May 2005 01:49
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Ha ha, thanks G Man.
More tools to look at then (no comments about tools from the Brit crowd please ) Is there no end to this suffering??
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Raven
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Posted: 19th May 2005 02:57
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I liked Blender back in 1998, was a fun alternative to Div Game Studio because you could create the games basically in the editor. Very WYSIWYG design.

A few months ago someone was asking me what it was like as a modeller, I was like .. 'Blender is a what now?'

Can't say I'm impressed with it as a Modelling Application, but it still does have the DirectX 7 Game interface the original had. Is quite fun especially as it's free and open.
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walaber
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Posted: 25th May 2005 17:10
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once you get used to the interface, Blender is extremely intuitive and efficient. it has become my favorite modeller now (even better than milkshape, I can't go back now, I get too annoyed you can't select anything in the 3D view).

take a moment and read a tutorial or check out the video tutorials on the blender website, they are really useful.

Go Go Gadget DBPRO!

Athlon XP 2400+ || DDR-SDRAM 1GB || Nvidia GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP 8x 128MB
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Van B
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Posted: 26th May 2005 00:47
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Modelling packages in this league, like Milkshape, Blender, DeleD, etc etc are all fairly different so it's really a case of trying them all out until you get good results from one of them.

Personally I like Rhino3D, but it's not cheap - but for me personally coming from a 2D CAD engineering background the interface is to die for, it's really not designed for game modelling but it's how I've ended up working. I dislike Blender, but I can imagine that if it's your first try a modelling and you start with Blender, the interface is not really an issue - but learning it after using something with an familiar interface is hard to take easily.

I think that Blender is in 2 minds about what the heck it is, I mean is it an artistic tool or a technical tool?, it's not good enough to be both and I don't think it has the features to do either very efficiently. e.g. It's too complicated for organic modelling (trees, characters, enemies) and it's not technical enough for technical modelling (guns, vehicles, buildings). This is just my opinion remember - I'm not saying this is the case for everyone, I've certainly seen some really cool stuff done in Blender and I'm no authority, just $0.02 from someone who's struggled with most of the cheaper modeller options.


Van-B

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Raven
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Posted: 26th May 2005 06:33
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heh, can't say any of the budget range modelling products are up to much really.

they're fun for just messing around with, but in terms of building believeable environments, and models your left having to rely on several products to do the job of one.

i mean, Milkshape 3D ($20) + CharacterFX ($50) + 3DUnwrap ($30).. you've just spent $100 on modelling tools; when you could spend $100 and get a tool that effectively does everything they do combined.

Maya, Softimage XSI, and 3D Studio Max second hand are often around this price range.. provided you don't mind not having like the ultimately latest version.

Alternatively Lightwave3D and trueSpace are often sold at discount values of about $150.

It's not really cheap to do this stuff unfortunately.

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ionstream
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Posted: 28th May 2005 13:34
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Walaber, I completely agree with you! Milkshape was originally made for low-poly models, but the definition of low poly has obviously changed.

The new Blender 2.6 has few bugs, none that I came across. It is incredibly intuitive and feature rich. Give it a try, the interface is good when you get used to it.

Also note that almost everything in the window can be changed, even the views, for the people who are used to a 4 viewport modeller.

Sig changed for lagging up browsers.
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greenlig
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Posted: 29th May 2005 16:31
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Yeh, blender is great now. I was really confused too after using 3dsmax for ages, blender seemed...very unix but now i use the shortcuts so much i dont notice anymore. I love it Lol, ive got a job now designing 3d graphics for a Corparate identity firm, and I use blender

Great stuff.

Regards.
Zac

Aust. Convention...get there!! http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=38799&b=2&p=1
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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 30th May 2005 20:16
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Thanks for the extra feedback folks.

As an update I've been playing with Maya Personal Learning Edition and it seems to be jammed full of good stuff. Unfortunately it only allows you to save in .mpe format so I can't try out anything I produce in DBP. As so many models from different modellers seem to behave differently when you import them into DBP, MPLE is not much use without export options.
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doffer
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Posted: 31st May 2005 06:49
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I see that some of you in here have tried blender years ago.
Well then you can't really comment on this cause blender has chanced EXTREMLY much. Not only in 2-3 years but actually in only ½ year or something like that.

Blender is now as powerfull as Maya, 3ds max, Houdini, XSI and all of those.

Instead of buttons blender has A LOT of hotkeys. Do you know them and give the program a shot then you'll love it.

As far as my own experience with Blender I use 3ds max. I'm on a forum though, with a lot of blender users.
I have blender installed on my comp. but doens't use it much.

Check out some of these pics:
http://www.3dmaxer.dk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13860&SearchTerms=eyecandy

http://www.3dmaxer.dk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9593&SearchTerms=eyecandy

With the new 2.36 it's really going crazy...

Denmark Denmark Denmark.
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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 31st May 2005 20:30
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Holy Jaysus! That is incredible stuff. But that pic of the mini in front of the graffiti has to be a photograph.
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Supremacy
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Posted: 31st May 2005 22:49
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those are very nice !!


http://netbux.org/?r=258795
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doffer
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 06:27
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an blender 2.37 is out today

@Troll Fiddler: None of those are photographs.

Denmark Denmark Denmark.
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STALKER
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 13:19
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Those Mini's cant be photographs, look at the tyres!

>>>>>>>>>>>MIRAGE STUDIOS<<<<<<<<<<<
>>MEDIEVAL CARNIVAL<->GLADIATOR ARENA<<
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Troll Fiddler
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Posted: 1st Jun 2005 20:08
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I was talking about the single mini above them, with the reg L50 something. But you're right, a mini with tread on the tyres? Nah
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Dark Serpent
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2005 12:59
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Blender....Ruuuuuun!!!!!!!!!!

Join my team, make games for the masses! Go Team Bolt Rocket!!! http://www.freewebs.com/teamboltrocket/
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Cloggy
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Posted: 5th Jun 2005 09:09 Edited at: 5th Jun 2005 09:12
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I've just started using it again and I have to say I find it much easier to use than Milkshape. Once you start to remember all the keyboard shortcuts that is!

Stuff like subdivision surface makes modelling organic shapes so much easier.

The propotional edit function is great for creating landscapes as well.

The only problem is skinning, but thats when I use Milkshape.

I would definately recommend it.

Cheers,

Cloggy
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