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Geek Culture / DarkBasic Retro Competition [Questions]

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:25
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hey there Rich, just a few questions about the competition and would probably be best if asked in the open so everyone can be alot clearer.

a) how long or how many generations will count as retro?
i.e. Can remaking Mario64 be consider'd retro enough?

b) i know we should stick away from Licencesd game characters, so this means we can make the exact same style of game with a different character set right?

i'm just wondering because there alot of N64 games i'd like to choose from but perhaps not retro enough
i may have more questiosn later, or others might wonder a few things.

i won't be starting for a week because i have to finish KG's and Rose's stuff - both shouldn't take too much longer, then i can put my full ass behind this hehee
Anata aru kowagaru no watashi! http://members.lycos.co.uk/timesaga/darkbasic/gir.gif[/img]
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:35
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Oooh coool I would love to see a Mario 64 Remake Raven thats like one of the best games ever imho - you prolly couldn't 100% finish it in 2 months tho right? Maybe with my K2Studio lol

Mario64 is 6 years old now, I guess it counts as retro - see what Rich says its his call obv. I guess the whole exact same game with different characters / music is right cos otherewise they can't exactly be recognisable as remakes if the level design or principal is vastly different...

Thanx 4 all your work man, V appreciated

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:36
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a) I would say anything pre-PSX can be considered retro for the purpose of this compo. NES, Megadrive, arcade machines, Amiga, ST, C64, etc.

b) It's not the characters per-se that is the issue, it's the use of copyrighted material fullstop. If you re-made Mario and just replaced the main sprite with a pumpkin or something, if all the other sprites remained the same the problem is still there. Basically take your ideas and even level design if you like - but change the media totally and utterly. I don't care if the sprite LOOKS like Mario, so long as you've drawn him and it's subtly enough different. If you wouldn't do it for your own game, don't do it for this either.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 21:37
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Oh and I'll include N64 - yes you can count those games too.

Cheers,


Rich

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 4th Feb 2003 22:01
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YAY! THANK YOU

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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 00:13
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lol...Why didn't u ask in the DBpro forum topic which Rich started? It was no need of another post... but I bet u wanted some attention, didn't ya?
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Simple
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 01:33
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Yeah ! and NO ripping graphics !!

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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 12:25
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Come on Simple... don't be so cruel. If he cannot use ripped off graphics or models from 3D Cafe, he won't stand a chance ^_^. It's basicaly all he can do... besides being arrogant
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 13:30
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Hmmm Mario64 in DB in 2 months 8-/ - good luck!, that's a helluva challenge.

Hey, Rich - this compo sounds like your cup of tea - why don't you make a retro game too?. Forum updates can wait, we're talking retro games here .


Van-B
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 13:37
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You'd be hard pushed to get Mario controlled properly in 2 months, let alone anything else

Van - I'd love to, I really would, but I just don't know when I'd find time to do so I might try though.

Cheers,

Rich

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empty
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:18
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Quote: "
I might try though.
"


Yeah, maybe a good old classic ST game. (a monochrome version, of course )

Ogres have layers.
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:27
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I can only remember 1 mono ST game, Bally, or something like that - basically an advanced breakout game.

If I had to choose an ST game to do - it'd have to be Oids, Oids was class , sorta like thrust, but quicker gameplay and you could set fire to people with your engines .


Van-B
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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:37
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Let me get this straight(completely off-topic)

Now there's a Raven_Vegeta and a Shadow Robert?...Where have I been lol!

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:10
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And I caught Shadow using the trademark ^_^ smilie - of course Vegeta swears it's not him...
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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:12
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^!^
U

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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:13
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hahaha...Damnit now I look like a fool who doesn't indent. lmao!

^!^
U

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And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:14
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actarus feels small.

Must take a mushroom...ahem Super Mario Bros's of course.

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour!
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Megaman X
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:20
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That "^^_^" is a universal thing... isn't it? Like:

..__n_~~~
/____\
|_n__|..__

I use the above on in my ICQ's adress tab...lol. and ^_^ all the time ratter then ": )" ()

"A true warrior fights with skill, not anger..."

Gif edited by Kangaroo2
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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:24
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Raven and Shadow are the same person... same signature, same avatar and both believe to work at EA

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:34
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?!?

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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:34
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Even better ^_^

Watashi wa Eletronic Arts de shigoto o shimasu!
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actarus
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:35
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ah @_@

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empty
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 17:30
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Quote: "
I can only remember 1 mono ST game, Bally, or something like that - basically an advanced breakout game.
"

There were some graphic adventures (The Pawn and a few more). They were available both in colour and mono. As well as some flight sims.


Quote: "
If I had to choose an ST game to do - it'd have to be Oids, Oids was class , sorta like thrust, but quicker gameplay and you could set fire to people with your engines .
"

Yeah, Oids was definately one of the best ST games.

Ogres have layers.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:03
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If someone submits a clone of Oids it may well win by default

Heh.. okay, maybe not - but damn that was a superb game. I still have my original boxed version too.

As for mono ST games there were quite a few - Ballerburg probably being the one you thought of, but also Oxyd was good and all the Silmarils games (Ishar1,2,3,Storm Master,etc) amazingly ran in mono.

What can I say.. if it's ST, it's in my head somewhere

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
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pathfinder
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:09
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okay I think I know who Shadow Robert is

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empty
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:33
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Right the Ishar trilogy.
I remember Ishar III very well. With day/night cycles and stuff like that... and the 5 (or 6?) disks. Happy were those who had a HDD.

Ogres have layers.
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:41
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Ishar3 was good.. I had the Atari Falcon version (still have), very nice game indeed. Used to play it for ages along with Robinsons Requiem, Transarctica and others

Cheers,

Rich

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David T
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 20:58
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So - subtely different. Hmm. An interesting challenge

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David T
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:00
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A question - can I use models from T3DGM? I know T3DGM games are free to distribute non commercially, so would this still count?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 00:11
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Yeah I guess you could use T3DGM models if you needed - but none of them are exactly retro are they?

Cheers,

Rich

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Simple
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 03:03
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- A question - can I use models from T3DGM? I know T3DGM games are free to distribute non commercially, so would this still count?

surely thats the same as ripping graphics ?? if not... then does that include DarkMatter models too ??

Not that I will be using any, But for the people who have a hard time modeling etc... sure would help them out.

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 04:17
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yep, i can't model humans quickly that well and my game's gonna involve a lot of 'em so i'm planning on using the Dark matter models and modifiying them a bit to comform with "retro"! i'm sure that would be ok!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 14:37
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"surely thats the same as ripping graphics" - no cause they wouldn't be ripped from the original game hes remaking. I don't think its an art issue, Its more they don't wanna be stung for copyright

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
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The Wendigo
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 09:23
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I don't think taking someone's models and completely remaking them to look different is ripping. That's like saying someone made a cube, copywrited it, and I went into TrueSpace and made a person out of it. Now I couldn't sell it? I know this rule applies to writing books, so I think it would apply here (after all, isn't a computer game just an interactive story?).

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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 10:28
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copyright laws on media is different...
they tend to pertain to names only and althought say the mario look is copyrighted, you can make an exact duplicate of him in 3D and not be sued ... however useing the exact mesh you can

The point is the same within writing books, as long as you change the names and rewrite the story in your own style - then hey presto the same story and legal to sell

if by some fluke you recreate a sprite identical to the original you can actually be sued for that, i think the current setup is 40% different ... which means as long as there is 40% differences (e.g Vertex are off thier marks by even 0001 upto 40% of them) then hey presto its different enough to be considered yours

i knows its a thin line to walk, but thats basically what the law is obligated to.

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Van B
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 10:45
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At the end of the day though - the idea is to update a retro game, you'd stand a better chance of winning with decent 3D models based on the characters (Van-B's thinking that's easy to say when you have a talented modeller to work with).


Van-B
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 10:54
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yeah updating doesn't always mean changing to 3D
adding a novel idea to it is enough, remeber its Rich that doing the preliminary testing and he's a 2D Game buff, so personally i think a 2D game has got just as much chance as a 3D one

as long as it captures the essence of the title with perhaps a unique approach to it, then thats enough
remember its not always the most graphically awesome title that gets the accolades

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Van B
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Posted: 7th Feb 2003 11:02
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Yeah, I know what you mean - I'm concentrating on gameplay above all else, that's what was important in the old days, that's what's important now. The point I was making is that doing your own media based on the original characters shows more initiative than matching the characters exactly.


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