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Geek Culture / Pay As You Drive

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Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 15:02 Edited at: 10th Jun 2005 20:29
MSN News Article re: Pay as You Drive

I can see many people complaining, and to be honest I'm no so fond of the idea of having some tracker bug in my car declaring my every movement.

Not for any legal reasons, more because it would creep me out knowing someone is tracking my every movement. Though I suppose what is to say they're not already doing that with Face Recognition CCTV, or Speed Cameras that scan license plates. eh?

Well the creepy factor aside, while I think this is a good idea as far as general motorist go. The issue really lies with how it'll hit businesses.

I mean for a public motorist you'll probably get a bill through your door saying 'you travel 600miles last week, you owe us £300', and people will start to take different roads at different times to try and cut down on thier bills.

There are a host of problems with that, namely that I think it'll cause more accidents by people rushing to try and make it before peak time and such just to save a few quid.

But back to the more important issue, and that's businesses.
Already the 'City Tax' that you have to pay to get in/out of London has become quite a pain to most communters. It hasn't really slowed down congestion much, it's just pissed off alot of people cause we're down £10 each sodding day; but what about the firms who's drivers are constantly in/out. Like Skip Hire, or Delivery Companies?
Also truck companies hauling goods..

I mean in recent years we've been seeing the economy suffer badly, because companies are struggling to afford to keep in business.

Even our Largest supermarkets have been taken over my American interests, our oldest car manufacturer folded earlier this year... so this is becomming a serious issue. With a new tax based on your annual distance does this mean that businesses will suffer as a result?

Well we'll have to wait and see, but personally while a good idea; there are still very many questions that seem unanswered that are more important than keeping evening and morning traffic to 20minutes instead of 2hours. That's just my thought.

indi
22
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Joined: 26th Aug 2002
Location: Earth, Brisbane, Australia
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 15:07
Quote: "I\\\\\\\'m no so fond of the idea of having some tracker bug in my car declaring my every movement."


own a mobile, u know the reciever does a marco/ polo once every singal term.

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself 
Raven
19
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Joined: 23rd Mar 2005
Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 17:11
Yeah I know that.. but Cellphones don't have GPS tied into a Satelitte

That's part of what they're proposing. Adding a small box to track the movement of every car on UK roads. It also has other benefits and issues though. Still I don't drive long enough distances for that to worry me much, and I can get over the creepy factor.

Still more worried about what it'll do to businesses, particularly stuff like the postal service and food.

I mean will this be passed onto the consumers?

Van B
Moderator
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Joined: 8th Oct 2002
Location: Sunnyvale
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 17:24
Typical UK government, take someting simple like road tax and swap it for something infinately more expensive.

Personally I'd be glad to see a reduction in traffic, but not because people can't afford to use the roads!. I mean, some roads would be like £1.20 per mile! - that's more than most bridge tolls!.

It'll never work, just another stupid idea like the European Union and ID cards .


Van-B

Oraculaca
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Location: Scotland
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 17:29
I drive around 50,000 business miles a year I would like to think there will be some concession for the businesses

Raven
19
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 17:32
what's worrying is they still have that dumbass ID Card system 'in-progress' .. : sighs :

remind me again why ppl voted Labour? I know I damn well didn't!

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 17:35
I think its a good idea - probably the only good one that the Government has had so far. Hopefully it should keep traffic down, and possibly save people money.

Van B
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 18:46
The concearn is for people that scrape by, just managing to keep their car on the road - and who rely on their car to get them to work, or to have a life.

It would be fine if out public transport system was anything to shout about, but it's expensive and unreliable. Personally I'd like to see business users pay the bulk of it - normal people should'nt have to pay more than they are already.


Van-B

OSX Using Happy Dude
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Location: At home
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 19:24
Unfortunately, there will have to be a two layer system - those with new cars or cars which can be updated and those that cant/wont or from overseas - which will add to the expense of the system.

David T
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 20:10
I'm glad I don't live in London, Essex etc...

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
Dazzag
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Location: Cyprus
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 20:19
F**ked for people who commute to work in a city. Because they can't afford housing there..... hmmm... so basically only the well off can drive.

Out of interest, I heard originally that they would scap the tax discs (would take about a week to reach that figure using pay as you go by the look of it for me), but also would scrap the *fuel tax*. But have heard nothing else since about the fuel tax. I mean that is downright criminal how much they charge. But are they proposing to drop the tax completely? ie. something like 80% of the price of petrol is tax in the UK (oh yeah....). If not then I'm travelling by Elephant or somesuch.

Personally though I think they should also tax businesses who take over other ones miles away, and expect the employees to commute to the new place. This happened to me, and is well annoying that I have to commute now (previous 5 min drive).

Cheers

I am 99% probably lying in bed right now... so don't blame me for crappy typing
Rob K
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 20:27
I imagine that the costs are likely to change, so I'm not too worried about that.

I have no faith in the government's ability to get the technology working well, and I have no faith in the government's ability to achieve a reasonable balance between respect for civil liberties and the tools needed to cut congestion.

The current UK government has a history of making cock-ups when it comes to implementing large-scale IT systems. One only needs to look at the NHS, Child Support Agency or ID card biometrics trials to see this.


BlueGUI Windows Plugin
Raven
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Location: Hertfordshire, England
Posted: 10th Jun 2005 20:58
Dazzag the cost of petrol tax in wales is ridiculous compared to the rest of the UK, I don't know why. Still we're paying around 50% of the cost.

The proposal is that what they will do, is take away the fuel tax and replace it with this 'Pay-as-you-drive' Tax. The charges will be set based on the roads your traveling, how much your travel, and what times your there.

So say the M25 between J7-22 (major junctions used during communte hours around here).. at 8:00am it would cost say £1.50/mile, but at 10:00am it would cost say £0.70/mile.

It would end up being like phones where you'll try to use the tiddly roads, and go to and from work at weird times just to make sure you get around paying that bit more. Though they'll probably even out the prices due to less traffic, it would cost less.

While I don't mind the idea in concept, the problem I do see is this will hit businesses harder. What is also worrying is that people (like Van) will actually back putting the charges onto the backs of Businesses more.

The problem is, it isn't just the 'adverage' person who is broke right now. Everyone is feeling the strain of the economy, and businesses in particular are slowly but surely moving away from the UK to Europe where it's cheaper. We're loosing quite a bit of big businesses and as a result we're loosing the potencial for jobs.

With this in effect it's going to have to come out of someones pocket rather than the companies. The cost will either be passed on to the consumer, or wages will drop. Although sure the light commuters like people won't actually see much change in thier overall out-goings, high communters will.

I think it's an extremely valid point, if they want to start making us pay more for the road then fine... but provide some decent [censored] public transport to replace it.

It costs me £1.50 to travel 5 miles down the road to town; to take the train in to London, I'm looking at another £20 return. Up to see the lass in Leeds is atleast £70!

Quite frankly it's cheaper to drive, even WITH this so-called new tax it'll STILL be cheaper to drive. I mean surely that's a problem of it's own.

I also don't understand the point in this ID Card system.. I mean they want to spend what... £13biln last time I checked to introduce them. Yeah wow a card that keeps tabs on me great; I'll gladly show it to the politician who thought up the idea as he bleeds to death in a horribly inefficient A&E while asking him why he felt those cards were more important than the nations health.

Van B
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Posted: 10th Jun 2005 21:57
The problem is that the whole of Britain is getting more and more expensive to live in, and that'll get rediculous if they get away with this.

I definately think lorries and vans should have a lot higher taxes, because they eat more of the road, and their journey is ultimately making them money.

Imagine if it was the same regardless of who you were or what you drove. Like an old woman visiting a friend .vs. a lorry full of Cola. I bet nobody here thinks the old woman should be paying the same as the lorry driver's employer.


Van-B

BatVink
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Posted: 11th Jun 2005 00:17
It's a fantastic system, very well thought out. It reduces the price of petrol by 80%, and there are no discounts for engine size.

So if I'm going to get charged per mile, I'm going to get my money's worth and travel in a 3 litre Dodge Truck, American-Styli.

An ecologically sound policy. On a similar note, it would be interesting to see what transport they all turn up to the G8 summit in. I'm sure it will be Mini Metros.



Oh wait, the government has no interest in UK cars, make that a Fiat Panda.

BatVink
JerBil
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Posted: 11th Jun 2005 01:43
They could pay you to take another route. That might work as well.

-JerBil

Ad Astra Per Asper
Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 11th Jun 2005 01:48
it eems like the kind of system many people could exploit or hack etc. This is probably an idea the government came up with to make up for not increasing petrol taxes as much recently.

I'm not really bothered by the idea, but i think a toll system would be better. the worse thing about these tracking things is they just need to know:
this car was on the M6 30 mins ago and now its in bristol, blatently been speeding...


PAM! speeding ticket
lagmaster
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Posted: 11th Jun 2005 03:02
the tax will hit hardest where i live. since im close to the m25.

for example, if you wanted to directly goto lakeside, i would have to go on m11 then m25 then another M road to get to the car park. so a trip there would be costly. it's gotta be a good 20-30miles? so a simple journey like that will end up costing £15-45 (peaktime). considering there arnt many sides roads, your forced to use a least 1 junction to get there.

this may be a way of forcing people off the road, then it might go a bit extreme.

lets hope they dont price it by how close you live to london.

lagmaster - [url=irc://irc.devhat.net]irc.devhat.net[/url] <-- irc network for #darkbasic
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David T
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Posted: 11th Jun 2005 04:10
Quote: "lets hope they dont price it by how close you live to london."


I wonder if they'll charge those people who live on remote scottish islands... the ones with only 4 cars on the whole island

Facts are meaningless.
You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.

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