Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

FPSC Classic Product Chat / Terrain Answer - News and Demo Video

Author
Message
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 19th Jun 2005 10:17 Edited at: 19th Jun 2005 10:23
Link
There have been numerous threads and questions regarding FPSC and support for terrrain and if there is any possibility that users will ever get to have usable terrrain. Some of the threads I have posted in and I have some news for you all following further tests.

The Bad NewsFirst

You will have to wait until V1 to get it.

The Good News : Last

I have a one piece terrain successfully placed in FPSC as a single entity .x file model. It has full collision detection and is perfectly walkable.

The Terrain is pefectly scalable in script so that you can have a single terrain entity scale to the full 40 x 40 tile world size and retain its walkable properties without any problem.

A demo video is available showing the terrain in action. In this demo for visual appearance sake the Terrain occupies approximately one third of the FPSC world size.

As you will see, using this method with a single texture of 512 x 512 - quite obviously texture quality is not great.

I can also say that even with the Terrain scaled to fill the full FPSC world size the actual visual appearance is not one of a vast landscape as the maximum 40 x 40 tile area is in itself realtively small and walking around such a landscape (this terrain) takes only around 70 seconds - not a large gameplay environment by any means.

Still it works and you can have terrain seemingly without any additional terrain engine so it looks like such an addition to FPSC is not required to achieve this result.

For those wanting a terrain feature at least you have it - albeit you may have to wait a little longer for FPSC V1 to get it.

Heres the link to the terrain demo if anyone wants it:

[href]http://www.umedia.co.uk/Homo2/FPSC Terrain_Test1.wmv[/href]

enjoy

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MaddA ChieF
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Dec 2004
Location: Cen*Cal
Posted: 19th Jun 2005 10:29
Link
Wow. Looks cool. I don't understand how to do it though...
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jun 2005 11:43
Link
it needs better physics, like once there is a certain amount of slope, you cant climb it anymore.

Heven doesn't want me and Hell's afraid i'll take over
Back to top
Profile PM Email
glyvin101
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Jan 2005
Location:
Posted: 20th Jun 2005 11:57
Link
very nice what program did you use to make it and for gods sake TUTORIAL
Back to top
Profile PM
E D G E C R A F T
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 31st Mar 2005
Location: Scotland
Posted: 20th Jun 2005 16:49
Link
Hi, nice work.

Is the 40x40 tile world limit also going to be carried over into version 1 too, makes big games / engaging games very difficult to make, let the user decided what the world size is, yeah ?

>The Terrain is pefectly scalable in script so that you can have a single terrain entity scale to the full 40 x 40 tile world size and retain its walkable properties without any problem.
Back to top
Profile PM
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 21st Jun 2005 00:08 Edited at: 21st Jun 2005 00:26
Link
glyvin101,MaddA ChieF,

The terrain model is just that a model mesh that you can make in any almost model editor. Then just save it as an x.file and place it in FPSC as an enity as you would any other static enity. If thats what you mean.

The Video was made in FPSC - captured at 25 frames per second using an FPSC Level - interestingly to know the terrain has very little or no impact on FPSC frame rates at 31 FPS and the capture rate of video in FRAPS is sustained at a continuos 25 FPS. Remember though that in this demo this is in an almost empty level except for - the player and terrain and a small number of ground tiles around the Terrain. You dont need floor/ground segment tiles underneath any area that the Terrain occupies as its not necessary - you wont fall through the Terrain.

You dont need a tutorial for that surely.

the amercain idiot,

Well spotted. The player and terrain were placed and no adjustment made in this basic demo which is just to show you that you will be able to have walkable terrain in FPSC. In V1 the Physics capabilities will allow you to apply Physics to any entity object in FPSC including Player and Terrains and adjustment of settings will allow variation to forces of Gravity and Friction. This - unless TGC change anything in the run up to V1.

How sophisticated the Physics options and controls may become is yet unknown to me at least. Physics I believe is still being fine tuned in conjunction with the development of MP.

Stringer,

I am not aware that there are any plans to increase the world size above 40 x 40 tiles. In reality this would require a much improved engine capability. 100 x 100 tiles would be nice even though this would still be a relatively small area for outdoor terrain type levels it would provide an opportunity to create much improved visual appearance and options for gameplay.

FPSC is not really designed for outdoor type games and the addition of this terrain support is currently a welcome feature for sensible inclusion of areas of Terrain to FPSC levels which some users have been looking forward to. Larger Terrain gameplay I dont think you will ever see in FPSC without an improvement to speed and FPS issues of an order of magnitude I dont think is possible. But who know what the future will bring.

Not me

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 21st Jun 2005 04:28
Link
lol

my location is in a girls destenation, do you get what i mean or do you need a demenstration??
Back to top
Profile PM Email
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 26th Jun 2005 02:08
Link
Originally I believe that the intention was that FPSC world size would indeed be 100 x 100 tiles in the ground plane.

Oviously that was, if not unrealistic - a goal that was unachieveable.

I'm sure that was the intention as 40 x 40 is a very small world in external levels particularly, not really capable of allowing outdoor game types to achieve realistic, believeable scenery with any kind of viewable horizon, not to mention the difficulties in progressing one level into another visually, which is why it is recomended that FPSC is designed to make your doom type FPS.

The FPSC engine is just not able to accoomodate a reasonable world level size if you consider a decent entity count requirement and operate efficiently enough to make gameplay viable.

I look forward to seeing how MP levels pan out in V1 and what I myself and other users are able to achieve with it.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
brushswinger
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Dec 2003
Location: Birmingham
Posted: 26th Jun 2005 02:22
Link
Quote: "doom type fps"


The first and greates MP game. I am sure FPSC can emulate this. If it can I will be happy.

I used to create Doom levels years ago, what a pain sometimes. What a game tho!!!!!! FPSC seems to be able to create that level of quality with ease.

If we can only create DOOM2 quality games with this software, I have already exceeded my greatest expectations.
Back to top
Profile PM
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 07:46
Link
uman, what do you mean we have to wait until V1 to get terrain...you made it in EA right? so what stops us from doing that?

I dont mean to sound rude...im just curious...

I am really BULLSHOCK, but my profile got deleted...really, i'm telling the truth!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 08:02
Link
To be clear I made the video using FRAPS by capturing the actual FPSC level player walkthrough. So the video was made inside FPSC. The terrain itself was not made in FPSC of course but externally.

There is nothing stopping you making a terrain and placing it in FPSC, its the waliking over it you may find a problem. I am not sure it can be done in EA release. I could not achieve it.

I have an an updated version of FPSC EA which includes Physics capability. It is this Physics capbility which allows the player to walk terrain.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 10:34
Link
oh...ok...is it possible for us (normal people) to get that updated FPSC EA release...or we just have to wait?

I am really BULLSHOCK, but my profile got deleted...really, i'm telling the truth!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 11:32
Link
Everyone has had the same opportunity as myself.

If you read the post entitled Editor Errors above this one by Mike Johnson of TGC - some time ago Mike had asked to hear from users who would be prepared to test out the New Editor Beta than I am using.

I was given the opportunity to download (400mb) and test the New Editor Beta. I have been using it ever since and in fact had to uninstall the original EA as both would not coincide on the same machine together and neither would work properly until I did.

The only difference I can ascertain between the EA and the New Editor Beta version that I have is the inclusion of Physics and some improvement to the weapons animations and sounds. Though there are numerous additional errors, problems and difficulties over the original EA as may be expected in a Beta. These I have reported back to TGC. The Physics capabilities in fact - I have removed from all entities in any case and in the main is not used as it results in an additional loss of FPS of around 8 frames per second (almost one third loss) and FPSC cannot afford that - the EA already having difficulty in sustaining playable level speeds.

That was some time ago and I guess as we are told, TGC are working towards and are apparently having some success at a resolution of improving the speed for V1.

I cannot now say whether or not TGC are still looking for additional users to test the New Editor Beta at this stage as V1 is hoepfully so close to nearing a release.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 14th Jun 2005
Location: Shocking Bulls
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 12:06
Link
thanks...i replied to mikes thread...hopefully i can still test it...

also...is there still that max entitys problem with your copy?....cause i spent too much time on my level to redo it...

I am really BULLSHOCK, but my profile got deleted...really, i'm telling the truth!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 27th Jun 2005 13:08
Link
The map limit however caused is still present in My version. I lost one level before getting it and one since so its no different. I have lost two out of three having been working on them since January. So only one to go - not much point in trying to further that one either.

The problem will persist until a fix is found by TGC - that is if they intend to find a solution.

I have seen another report today of another user suffering the same fate.

If you were to take the time to re build your level it may well end in the same result unless you make the level smaller and reduce the content - Its just impossible to know when it might fall over and die.

I have one level that occupies around only one third of the 40 x 40 tiles available and FPSC has killed that so it can happen even in levels of a small area if their content level is high, dense or complex.

Good Luck

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 1st Jul 2005 04:30
Link
Sorry guys I forgot to mention that in the New Editor as well as having Physics applied by default all entities also carry a realistic shadow by default and not the blob shadow that is mentioned relating to MP which is - as is for obvious reasons.

The new shadows are in fact - excellent and its great to see - makes a big difference of course.

The only problem is as you can guess Shadows require more memory and together with the Physics slow down the FPS quite a bit. You could of course switch off the Physics and shadows on objects that are staitic (Physics = Dynamic) but it can look a little odd with just a couple of things having shadows and others not - like I said the difference is remarkable. Again I guess there may well be improvements coming to the game speed/fps issues so maybe the impact of these things will not be so great in V1.

I rarely do a full light map compile and I would presume that entity shadows situation would also no doubt look very different with a level also correctly light mapped having many shadows areas around. Not so noticable.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 6th Jul 2005 03:52
Link
is the lightmapper quicker?

I'll be back!!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 6th Jul 2005 05:18
Link
If I could build a complete level worthy of testing out the lightmapper I would test it. Lighting and such like is a final step for me - I dont use lightmapping while developing - its just a waste of valuable time.

As far as I am aware everythings the same as EA - except anything additional I have mentioned.

Things have moved on now somewhat apparently and V1 may well be somewhat improved in numerous areas. We just dont know and wont know until its been released.

Hopefully everyone will get at least some of the things they want from V1.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 7th Jul 2005 03:58
Link
oh, ok. do you think the lightmapper will be quicker in V1?

I'll be back!!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 7th Jul 2005 05:31 Edited at: 7th Jul 2005 05:32
Link
I had tried to say previously - No one other than perhaps TGC know the answer to questions relating to any FPSC improvements in V1.

There are suggestions that as well as the inclusion of Physics, MP and any other additional features that have already been documented - there are also some improvements to issues of speed and so on.

However what I am saying is - in actuality it wont be until the official version of V1 is released and a wide range of users using differing systems have time to access where the any improvements and maybe failures are.

At the end of the day speed of the light mapper will depend both on the FPSC engine itself and an individual users system. Obviously as a general rule any software will run more smoothly and faster on a High Spec System though in reality that is not always the case due to other factors which I wont go into here.

Users of FPSC EA should all be aware by now that FPSC is an agressive and hungry program - I doubt thats going to change even considering improvements to speed and memory issues are addressed by TGC - as the more you add - like Physics the more users will want to put into their game levels - putting extra strain on the engine.

Given that V1 ends up a being stable product - it will still need feeding with volumes of Power - you will be hard pressed to find enough in a low spec system If you have anything like complicated levels to accommodate I recon.

Sorry the answer is I just dont know yet. Perhaps TGC can comment if you are that concerned about light mapping.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Sunflash
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Jun 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posted: 11th Jul 2005 23:52
Link
Quote: "There is nothing stopping you making a terrain and placing it in FPSC, its the waliking over it you may find a problem. I am not sure it can be done in EA release. I could not achieve it.

I have an an updated version of FPSC EA which includes Physics capability. It is this Physics capbility which allows the player to walk terrain.
"


one more question do you think that possibly this could mean that we could use Geoscape3D in V1?

When FPSC gets good enough, lets make a Redwall game!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 04:57
Link
i have figured out, i'll post it l8r.

I'll be back!!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
foleypro
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Jun 2005
Location: Tacoma Washington USA
Posted: 12th Jul 2005 05:41
Link
Great I am Anxiously waiting on this...

I use Several 3D Programs to make Stuff including Characters for UT2004 and I am really wanting to see Terrain support...

This is a Very nice Program you guys have set up...Is there any way we can see support for 1024x1024 textures and 4096x4096 world Coordinates....

As Always B3D
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 12:41 Edited at: 13th Jul 2005 12:45
Link
Sunflash,

A terrain can be made using any program you like which uses any format you like - as long as somewhere along the line you convert it to an .x file with texture map for use in FPSC. Of course the texture needs to be separated too for use.

What you need to watch is how many polys, triangles or vertex points your terrain is composed of - a compromise between terrain quality and those things may be necessary - a good choice is "just enough" triangles to give you a smooth terrain - any more is a waste and will add to the engines burden.
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dory The Cable Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Apr 2005
Location:
Posted: 13th Jul 2005 14:58
Link
yea, that seems to be the trouble with FPSC. to many pollys=ssssllllloooowwwww engine preformance
Back to top
Profile PM Email
slacer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Jul 2004
Location:
Posted: 14th Jul 2005 20:50
Link
cool video - but one question popped up when I saw it.

Is there a way to blend a detail map (texture) over this terrain?
This would avoid the smearing texture effect if you get close into the terrain (by car, etc.)

So we could use
1 diffuse texture 512x512 as seen in your video
1 tileable texture 64x64 for grass
1 tileable texture 64x64 for sand
2 alpha textures to blend the details into the scene
Back to top
Profile PM
uman
Retired Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 22nd Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posted: 15th Jul 2005 10:00 Edited at: 15th Jul 2005 10:01
Link
Answer is that you can add a bump map (greyscale) and mipmaps which totally enhances the detail. Nothing stopping you adding any kind of texture map additionally as long as you have a programme that can do that and combine the lot into a single high quality skin. Unfortunately it cant be done any other way in FPSC as it does not support dual maps on a single entity at any one time as far as I am aware.

Additionally I cant say exactly what the technical limit of texture map size that FPSC will display on a entity is. I guess as the video texture option size is 512 then thats it? i.e. 512 x 512 pixels - which is what is used on the terrain in the video. Of course you could improve it somewhat by adding greater very small detail on the texture and adding the greyscale bump map (remember that this was only a test) however 512 x 512 is a very small skin for a 540 x 40 tile terrain - leave alone anything any bigger.

I have a new terrain I am using in a raceing game being made in another engine - that I was going to try out in FPSC - however in the other engine its a massive one piece terrain (hmp) - somewhere in the order of 10 times the size of an FPSC level - needed for such a raceing game - the quality is excellent though could be even better if bigger - currently the texture alone being around 18mb and 2048 x 2048 pixels so I am not sure that FPSC would display such at any different quality to the current example if it reduces the texture to 512 x 512 by default. There would be simply no benefit in trying to apply a larger texture.

Of course other engines will accept textures embedded in models, not so FPSC and we have to call via the script the texture which FPSC may be covert internally to the 512 pixel size? Who knows I dont know the answer to that so would have to do a test run. FPSC has not be designed to handle large anything leave alone large terrain and associated textures.

If I do and I am not really working with FPSC currently I will let you know and post something showing any improvement.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-11-23 04:41:47
Your offset time is: 2024-11-23 04:41:47