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Geek Culture / How these tings were made?

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Amey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:14
Anyone know how people made a os from nothing? and how people know how to make a pc? (this is very old history)
Mattman
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:23
Graduate from high school first.

Word.
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:25
Google it..I'll help you out a bit...type in the letters: ASM/assembly and see what you get...and like Mattman said, Graduate from highschool, although it may be lower than that...

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ionstream
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:30
I think Amey means, how did they make an OS before they had assembly.

My guess would be binary? Yes, it would.

Sig changed for lagging up browsers.
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:36
Heh, have fun with that .

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zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:37 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 03:52
Here's some interesting links to read.

Computer Architecture
http://www.csupomona.edu/~hnriley/www/VonN.html

John Von Neumann
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

Alan Turing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

Turing machines Defined
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/turing-machine/

Past notable Women of Computer Science
http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/tap/past-women-cs.html


~zen

Amey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:47
Well what i mean is how the hell bill gates made windows before people even know what is a os
Megaton Cat
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:49
Holy sh*t that's a sleeping pill Zen.

zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 03:55
Amey,

There were plenty of OS's before windows, and even windows predecessor Microsoft DOS was not invented or written by Bill gates.

Read this for a quick review of history.
http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aa033099.htm

~zen

geecee3
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:11
sure, you just magic the beans, and hey presto the operating system writes itself, It's a really amazing process that takes a just a little longer than the amount of time it takes to bake a nice cake, or make something prett basic out of play doh. all you have to do is learn to magic the beans, and your away. and they don't make cpu's they grow on silicon trees you idiot. make processors indeed.

thanks, the man on the moon.

mmmm....computer....
zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:13 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 04:16
How is this a a sleeping pill?

At least to me that is one fascinating life of contributions.




Maybe I'm just a nerd???? But that's some exciting reading!!!

~zen

Amey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:15
Ok now i change what i asking how did 1 guy somewher somehow made a os?
Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:17
because this 1 guy was a friggin genious!

Don't look at me like that!
Raven
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:19 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 04:29
hahaa

Quote: "No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first, and you said. "Hey that's no fair! I wanted to steal the TV set!"
- Bill Gates

Classic ^_^ .. he's not denying stealing the idea, only that Mac was claiming they got there first.

Quote: "Ok now i change what i asking how did 1 guy somewher somehow made a os?"


Because it isn't actually all that hard, especially not given what DOS was originally capable of doing.

Further more MS-DOS was the gradual evolution of a single OS in service at the time. Atleast 5 people had developed and contributed physically, with a number of others contributing in a theoretical capacity.

While Mr. Gates can stand up and say, 'MS-DOS is mine all hail me'
It's a bit like Valve Software trying to take complete credit for how successful and well developed the Source Engine is.

They may have rewritten it from the ground up, but the fact remains is that it is still highly based on the Quake & Quake2 Engines from ID Software. A company who's original version Wolf3D was actually programmed by 3 very talented guys. Now what was achieved in Wolf3D is something that people like you can created in a matter of a week rather than 6months that they did; because the knowlage, understanding and tools to achieve it are there.

16 years ago when it was created, it wasn't so readily available to develop something so complex. You'll find this throughout the software world though.

There are very very few software applications that literally just pop-up, usually they'll have some deep seeded roots. Just because someone takes full credit for something :coughdavidbrabhamcough: doesn't mean they were a) the only person working on it or b) working purely from thier own understanding of technology.

Remember most of the software we use today was created in the Education Environments.

Computer Games were physically born, in a University.
Software-Based Operating Systems (Unix, DOS) were created in a University.

So I mean you just have to remember that the software industry is what it is, not becuase of one person, but because of many.

dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:22
You see, all you need are 2 beans, rub them together and...POW!!!You have a full blown OS called "BeanOS" that runs off of beans that you put into a specialized "Bean Processor" that runs off of bad ideas and even more lame threads started by numpties.

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zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:26 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 05:00
Gary Kildall (friggin genious)

http://www.cadigital.com/kildall.htm

Gary Kildall (Digital Research), GEM, DR DOS is born, Novell is born, MS Dos survives, .... Windows
http://www.joewein.de/dri.html


Tim Paterson (Also a friggin Genious and also another to fall to Bill Gates business [savyness/thievery depending on who you ask]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Paterson


All about QDOS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QDOS#QDOS_versions


~zen

zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 04:52 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 05:03
Beginners OS design FAQ
http://www.overwhelmed.org/shawn/faq.html

coding a boot sector (And why not to start with your own!!!)
Code a boot sector for the knowledge, but don't try to design your OS from it. Read this to save yourself the pain!!!!!
http://www.openbg.net/sto/os/implement/boot.php


And finally....

Plenty of inforamtion, articles, links etc... for coding an OS for intel 8086 architecture
http://osdev.berlios.de/

~zen

Keaz
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 05:12
DOS came before Microsoft even. The made MS-DOS, but there also was PC-DOS, and earlier TRS-DOS for the TRS-80.
Acronyms used:
DOS=Disk Operating System
PC=Personal Computer
TRS=Tandy-RadioShack (That what they were called when the first joined, now it's just RS)

Wanna know about computer history in general:
http://www.computer.org/history/development/

If it's OS's basically the OS was developed after programming into order to make different part from different manufacturer's work together or to provide an easier to use interface than binary or assembly language instruction code. The GUI (the Windows and MacOS) was developed to simplify it even further by give it a visual element so that you didn't need to know programming or command line instructions to use it. The GUI came about before Windows however.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Keaz
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 05:14
Quote: "another to fall to Bill Gates business [savyness/thievery depending on who you ask]"


Early on savy, but know just plain thievery.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Keaz
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 05:21 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 05:42
In the end the answer your looking for is like asking "How did you start to speak?" He mimicked and improved upon earlier work. That's how a machine evolves. Who invented the computer that's easy. God, the human brain. We invented numbers and then putting them together. Then the first human to ever use his hands for counting invented the first human computer. The history of computers is like the history of math. 99.9999999% of the time no one invents something, they build upon the work of others. Edison invent the light bulb, nope, ne just put a filament in a vaccum surrounded by glass. The wire and glass had to be invented first.

Breaking Stuff=Fun!,Bug Testing<>Fun!, Bug Testing=Breaking Stuff, so...
Bug Testing=Fun! Hmmmm....
DOES NOT COMPUTE! SYSTEM MALFUNTION!
Mattman
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 05:39
I would highly suggest the book "Nerds 2.0.1" Although it's main focus is how the internet came about, it also talks about how Apple + Microsoft + Xerox all came up with their ideas.

Word.
Amey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 06:40
Well u want to help me make a os?
Eric T
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 06:50
Amey -

Are you just someone who's been sent here to screw with us? Or are you really this, whats a nice word, ambitious?

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEROY JENKINS!!
http://blog.myspace.com/erict An Alternative to Mouse's blog. Now with more lowbrow opinions.
zenassem
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 07:07 Edited at: 27th Jun 2005 07:25
Amey,

Start here.
http://alexfru.chat.ru/epm.html#bootprog

I tried to write my own OS and failed. There is a lot to learn. I got about as far as coding a boot sector loader, and some messing around with Protected Mode prorgramming. I wouldn't venture into OS dev again for a while. I'm still licking my wounds.

I can offer you some information, books, OS design theories, and links that I used, and I can offer to test your Kernel on my Compaq presario 1235 laptop.

Try doing some reading on OS developement, to see if it's really your cup of tea. Perhaps start looking through the linux kernel.

TinyOS kernel (without the includes)





~zen

Killswitch
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 07:54
Amey, would I be right in saying that you'd be planning to write this 1337!!!111 OS in DarkBasic?






(Shall we begin to explain why this is impossible, or just laugh?)

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 09:57
Like I said, BeanOS .

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Amey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 17:55
When did i say i am useing dark basic?
Raven
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 18:13
Which came first, the programming language or the operating system?
heh ^_^

I love the answer to that question cause it's bloody fascinating.

Baggers
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Posted: 27th Jun 2005 22:06
Quote: "I tried to write my own OS and failed."

Well hats off to you for trying ! thanks for the articles, although I shudder to admit it, some were very interesting!

Killswitch
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 02:42
@Amey

You never said you weren't going to use DarkBasic

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
Amey
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 02:49
Then why u say that in your last msg?
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 03:06
BeanOS!!!! And Killswitch, I think we should just laugh and get it over with...or keep laughing ^^.

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Killswitch
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 04:59
Amey, perhaps you should use MUG-OS as the foundation for your project.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
empty
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 05:19 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 05:22
Quote: " Which came first, the programming language or the operating system?
heh ^_^

I love the answer to that question cause it's bloody fascinating."

A programming language (or compiler) doesn't necessarily need an operating system.


Play Nice! Play Basic! Version 1.073
Raven
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 05:32
heh, true.. but you didn't answer the question.

i kinda think the whole punch-card BASIC was an interesting idea, can see that on some sadistic geek version of fear factor.

"And now Bill has to create a basic version of Windows in 30minutes with nothing but these punch-cards and that reader!"

TKF15H
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 05:33
the operating system came first. Any program that runs in priviledged mode can be considered an OS, even if all it does is say "Hello World".

WarBasic Scripting engine for DarkBasicPro
DC emulator code size: 13MB
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 06:03
Yay for "Hello world" !!!

@ Amey: Did you take up my BeanOS solution?

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Baggers
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 07:32
By the looks of his last post BeanOS fried his brain...you did want him the reaction used to make the OS emmits high ammounts of radiation didnt you ?...poor kids probably a walking tumour now.

dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 09:21
Heh, that was my evil plan...well not really . But either way, as long as they didnt stick them in the Micro Wave first...there shouldn't be any problems...

Anyway, Zen, those links were amazingly fun links . At least I thought they were...

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Amey
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 17:15
You think its funny that some guy made a os from nothing but punch cards? But that's not what happen
Raven
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 18:01
How do you know? That could've been the inccident that caused Steve Jobs to be so bitter about the Windows UI System. Heh

Amey
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Posted: 28th Jun 2005 22:33 Edited at: 28th Jun 2005 22:44
This is the first post I made that have more than 1pg lolz
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 01:17
And most of it really isn't helpful at all (other than zen's links )...

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indi
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Posted: 29th Jun 2005 15:14
nostalgia trip : anyone remember GEOS for c64 ?

If no-one gives your an answer to a question you have asked, consider:- Is your question clear.- Did you ask nicely.- Are you showing any effort to solve the problem yourself &#63743;
BiggAdd
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 01:32
everything had to start from sumwhere. some bright spark must have had the idea just like bill gates had the idea to invent the GUI. Its like every new invention you think.... how????? how did someone invent a clock? i mean if u look inside a clock its pretty complicated. U ever seen that mecanical calculator? it was never finneshed but how on earth did he think to make that????
Briere
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 01:51
id like to try that one day, just writing a text base OS like DOS.
But I wouldnt even know where to start. Example, how does the computer to know what to boot first and how does it do it?

And Ive read that you can make them in C and C++ as well as ASM.

Formerly The Fixxer
http://www.xiemsoft.cjb.net
Jeku
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 02:20
Quote: "some bright spark must have had the idea just like bill gates had the idea to invent the GUI"


Please do some research!

Quote: "it was never finneshed but how on earth did he think to make that????"


Creativity. Inventors are creative, plain and simple. Some people just have the natural flair, some don't. It also helps when you're tired of doing something the long way, and have an idea how to shorten it.


--[R.O.B.O.I. and FireTris Coming Soon]--
dj blackdragon3710
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 04:03
Like DB .

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DBAlex
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 04:05
Everyone has to start small though... Try just getting text loaded first!

I dont even know how to go about doing that...


AMD 64 3000 + 512mb RAM + 80GB HD + Radeon 9600se 128mb
http://www.dbastudios.cjb.net
Eddie B
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Posted: 30th Jun 2005 05:00
Quote: "I dont even know how to go about doing that..."


And we care becuase.... J/K

I dont get this.. Whats the point of attempting to make an OS apart from a hobbie... If I ever had a go it would be purley for fun

!HI! : where can get the user32 dll from and how do i use it?

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